southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:05 PM) Simple. 1) They haven't rebuilt like this since the late 90's. 2) Albert Belle/Alex Rodriguez/Tanaka/Adam Dunn 3) The biggest financial treasure is there for the taking in franchise history if they have the looks of the 2014-15 Cubs heading into 2019 and can negotiate an advantageous media rights deal, which will obviously create another $50-75 and even $100 million dollars per year to play around with. 4) This is JR's likely last opportunity at an extended run as he's in his early 80's....and the logic of rebuilding but NOT FINISHING the rebuild if they're just a couple of players away, maybe even 3...is just completely nuts. That's what we have been dealing for the last 3-4 years, except we were trying to reload with one of the worst farm systems in baseball and a barren Latin American pipeline. 5) They have a special connection to Cuba that few if any teams have (of course, we don't know which direction that will go under Trump, in terms of continued "opening up" of the country), with the agents like Jaime Torres and buscones. Contreras, El Duque, Alexei, Viciedo, Rodon is Cuban-American, Abreu, now Moncada. They have a manager who has a much clearer way of communicating with those players than Ventura, since he's fluent in Spanish. We also just brought in 3 big-time Latin American talents in Moncada (Cuba), Basabe (Venezuela) and Lopez (DR). That's not an accident. And Paddy. Coming in second does you no good in free agency. Half of that list doesn't matter. One quarter of it happened literally a generation ago. I'd bet money that JR is dead by the time the White Sox win another division title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:06 PM) They have to get elite for him. Just mean your giolito/moncada. Expect great value, but the Q deal is where our scouts need to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (TRU @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:56 PM) We've never seen anything that suggests this ownership will ever pay the price it will take for a marquee free agent. I'm not saying we sign a Bryce Harper, I'm saying we will be willing to sign guys on that 2nd or 3rd rung of the ladder which, if things work out, will be plenty enough to push us over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Coming in second does you no good in free agency. Half of that list doesn't matter. One quarter of it happened literally a generation ago. I'd bet money that JR is dead by the time the White Sox win another division title. Your latter statement was just as true, if not more, before they traded Sale and Eaton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 6 years $68 Million... that's the largest contract the Chicago White Sox have ever given out They aren't signing the big time free agents, need to nail these trades and drafts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Coming in second does you no good in free agency. Half of that list doesn't matter. One quarter of it happened literally a generation ago. I'd bet money that JR is dead by the time the White Sox win another division title. Would you have bet money three days ago that Thad Bosley, SoxFest and I would be close to relentlessly optimistic and you would be the "dark cloud"?? Sure, everything can completely blow up in their face, they COULD face a 30 year Royals/Pirates period wandering in the wilderness...but, to quote Dick Allen, why even be a fan of the team if it's not going to bring you any pleasure/joy/happiness/contentment? Edited December 8, 2016 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) Would you have bet money three days ago that Thad Bosley and I would be close to relentlessly optimistic and you would be the "dark cloud"?? Sure, everything can completely blow up in their face, they COULD face a 30 year Royals/Pirates period wandering in the wilderness...but, to quote Dick Allen, why even be a fan of the team if it's not going to bring you any pleasure/joy/happiness/contentment? I can tell you one thing for sure. I will be watching less baseball this year than I have in any season probably since Robin Ventura left Chicago as a free agent. I have not been nearly this bitter with the White Sox since that specific day. I had thought about Soxfest after getting a nice bonus this quarter, and there is no way I am spending $500 to do that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Guys... they've NEVER rebuilt like this. In fact, of Q is traded I won't be able to remember any team doing something like this before. Himes did. He traded everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (TRU @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) 6 years $68 Million... that's the largest contract the Chicago White Sox have ever given out They aren't signing the big time free agents, need to nail these trades and drafts.. With a team already loaded with contracts. When the payroll is $40 million in a year or two, there will be room to make a splash in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:04 PM) They have blown up a team before. Go look up White Flag. I know about White Flag. I think this goes further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:13 PM) Himes did. He traded everybody. Himes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:14 PM) Himes? Larry Himes. Took over for Hawk. Sent Harold away. Traded all the starting pitchers.i think Fisk, Ozzie, and Ivan Calderon were the only guys he kept. He even traded Kenny Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:18 PM) Larry Himes. Took over for Hawk. Sent Harold away. Traded all the starting pitchers.i think Fisk, Ozzie, and Ivan Calderon were the only guys he kept. He even traded Kenny Williams. Yep, the sucktitude of the late '80s is legendary. But Himes put together an outstanding core and things really turned around in 1990, culminating in the '93 division champs and possibly a WS appearance in '94 if the strike hadn't occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:13 PM) With a team already loaded with contracts. When the payroll is $40 million in a year or two, there will be room to make a splash in free agency. Ill believe it when I see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (TRU @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:23 PM) Ill believe it when I see it Yeah, the Sox aren't going to be players in the FA market for at least another year, probably two, down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) Larry Himes. Took over for Hawk. Sent Harold away. Traded all the starting pitchers.i think Fisk, Ozzie, and Ivan Calderon were the only guys he kept. He even traded Kenny Williams. Ah, right before my time of fandom. Around then I was in my baseball pull up diapers. Thanks for the insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:18 PM) He even traded Kenny Williams. Bring him back! Make him do it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:24 PM) Yeah, the Sox aren't going to be players in the FA market for at least another year, probably two, down the road. Two. So the 2018 class, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I think people underestimate the value of Frazier. I still think its possible to get 1-Top 100 Prospect and a lottery ticket for him or 2-Top 150 Prospects. Is it just me or is there just not a whole lot of top free agents signing happening. Encarcion, Chapman, Jansen, Turner all have not signed. Its strange to me. I think the big markets want to stay under the luxury tax for at least this year and its really hurting the market. Their are some good deals to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:28 PM) I think people underestimate the value of Frazier. I still think its possible to get 1-Top 100 Prospect and a lottery ticket for him or 2-Top 150 Prospects. Is it just me or is there just not a whole lot of top free agents signing happening. Encarcion, Chapman, Jansen, Turner all have not signed. Its strange to me. I think the big markets want to stay under the luxury tax for at least this year and its really hurting the market. Their are some good deals to be had. It's just a weird market for power hitters right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (TRU @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:23 PM) Ill believe it when I see it We're kinda entering unchartered territory here, with basically no financial commitments, a young, cheap core and for the first time ever a kind of real soft cap, it makes sense that big dollars could be committed, where else are they going to spend the next two years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:29 PM) It's just a weird market for power hitters right now. What happend to Jose Bautistas market? I mean damn the guy will be lucky to get 3/50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:29 AM) We're kinda entering unchartered territory here, with basically no financial commitments, a young, cheap core and for the first time ever a kind of real soft cap, it makes sense that big dollars could be committed, where else are they going to spend the next two years? And who knows how important fielding a competitive team will be come new TV contract negotiations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 We're going to sign Machado in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:29 PM) We're kinda entering unchartered territory here, with basically no financial commitments, a young, cheap core and for the first time ever a kind of real soft cap, it makes sense that big dollars could be committed, where else are they going to spend the next two years? It is uncharted territory, but I still find it hard to believe they will ever sign the 7 year 20-25 per kind of guys under JR.. He just doesn't do it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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