Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[steveno89]

Last year it would have made sense to go after them to plug holes; it might make sense in 3 years to get similar players.

 

But they are average players with too little time left of control for it to make sense now.

 

Bleacher report suggested two deals for the sox

 

Quintana to the Rockies for Rodgers, Hoffman and freeland

 

Robertson to the nationals for Stephenson and severino

 

Thoughts?

[Dam8610]

Bleacher report suggested two deals for the sox

 

Quintana to the Rockies for Rodgers, Hoffman and freeland

 

Robertson to the nationals for Stephenson and severino

 

Thoughts?

 

Both are light.

 

[illinilaw08]

Bleacher report suggested two deals for the sox

 

Quintana to the Rockies for Rodgers, Hoffman and freeland

 

Robertson to the nationals for Stephenson and severino

 

Thoughts?

 

Rather have Tapia than Freeland, but love the first two pieces in the Rockies deal.

 

That Robertson deal would be a no-brainer to me.

[steveno89]

Both are light.

 

I feel the same

 

Robertson could have huge deadline value, as could Jones

 

I feel like we could squeeze another player out of the Rockies in a Quintana deal

[steveno89]

Rather have Tapia than Freeland, but love the first two pieces in the Rockies deal.

 

That Robertson deal would be a no-brainer to me.

 

We really could use a solid left handed pitching prospect in the system if we deal Quintana. Freeland could be a back end starter or solid bullpen arm

[hi8is]

Both are light.

If it was allowed, I'd say: "you're nuts!" Since it's not thou - I'll just give you hurumph!

[iamshack]

Fwiw KLaw mentioned in his chat today how awful the rumored Astros package would have been for Hahn. He also said he's not sure if that was the actual trade discussion.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that thinks that return sucks.

[GreenSox]

Bleacher report suggested two deals for the sox

 

Quintana to the Rockies for Rodgers, Hoffman and freeland

 

Robertson to the nationals for Stephenson and severino

 

Thoughts?

Nationals deal looks pretty good to me; can't say I know a whole lot about those guys; if Severino is adept defensively then I'd say yes. Two good positions, for sure.

 

As or the Rockies, I like Rodgers, but not a big Hoffman fan; can't give a good reason for it, just my feel. I'd prefer Pint...need to stock the back minors too. Don't know much about Freeland, except that his numbers look spotty. I'd hope if we did a deal with Colorado, we could get more position players.

But one thing occurs to me is that if they want Q, they may want to deal with some of their excess at outfield. I'd think they may try to arrange a three-way and move Cargo or Blackmon to team C, get Q,and the Sox would get prospects from Colorado and especially team C.

Edited December 16, 2016 by GreenSox

[reiks12]

Texas talking to EE. Hopefully an incentive for the Astros to pony up for Q.

[Chicago White Sox]

Texas talking to EE. Hopefully an incentive for the Astros to pony up for Q.

I'm all for Texas getting him.

[SoCalSox]

Both are light.

 

The Colorado deal is about right minus a 4th prospect & the Nats package seems a bit of an overpay for Robertson.

[Dam8610]

The Colorado deal is about right minus a 4th prospect & the Nats package seems a bit of an overpay for Robertson.

 

I'd rather deal with Houston if that's the best they can offer, unless they add a very worthwhile fourth player. Reed/Tucker/Martes/Stubbs is still my preferred package.

 

Also, if Andrew Miller, who isn't even a closer, can net Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield, and more, and Aroldis Chapman can net Gleyber Torres as part of a four player package, then Robertson is worth more than that.

[SoCalSox]

I'd rather deal with Houston if that's the best they can offer, unless they add a very worthwhile fourth player. Reed/Tucker/Martes/Stubbs is still my preferred package.

 

Also, if Andrew Miller, who isn't even a closer, can net Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield, and more, and Aroldis Chapman can net Gleyber Torres as part of a four player package, then Robertson is worth more than that.

 

Although I like the Astros top end package, getting Rodgers would be bigger than Tucker/Martes combined.

 

Also, you can't honestly think that David Robertson is worth more than Andrew Miller, right?

 

Robertson is coming off a down year with a much higher walk rate than his career average. Andrew Miller is one of the best pen arms in the game... Robertson doesn't even come close to that.

[SoxAce]

I'd love to get Chance Sisco on the Sox.

 

Love that kid as a prospect. I'm right there with you.

[Y2Jimmy0]

This is what Keith Law said:

 

Nick: If you were Lunhow, would you trade Musgrove + Martes + Tucker for Quintana, and why or why not? I go back and forth as an Astros fan but think I’d be happy with him pulling the trigger.

Klaw: If I’m Luhnow I do it. If I’m Hahn I’m not even countering because it’s so low. FWIW, I don’t know that that was ever discussed by the clubs.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd love to get Chance Sisco on the Sox.

 

 

Love that kid as a prospect. I'm right there with you.

 

What do you think the Orioles would want from us for him? I mean within reason since I don't think they can get Quintana with their spects.

[TheFutureIsNear]

This is what Keith Law said:

 

Nick: If you were Lunhow, would you trade Musgrove + Martes + Tucker for Quintana, and why or why not? I go back and forth as an Astros fan but think I’d be happy with him pulling the trigger.

Klaw: If I’m Luhnow I do it. If I’m Hahn I’m not even countering because it’s so low. FWIW, I don’t know that that was ever discussed by the clubs.

 

Hmm...interesting. I guess he's using the Sale deal as a template and because there's no marquee name like Moncada coming back it's not close? I mean, if he doesn't think that deal is even remotely close then he must think a deal is impossible with the Astros unless Bregman is involved. I get that point of view, but the demand for Q just doesn't seem high enough right now honestly. I think we were only able to leverage Moncada from Boston because Washington was so heavily involved. As of right now the media haven't reported of a serious 2nd bidder....of course that doesn't mean there isn't 1.

Edited December 16, 2016 by TheFutureIsNear

[steveno89]

Although I like the Astros top end package, getting Rodgers would be bigger than Tucker/Martes combined.

 

Also, you can't honestly think that David Robertson is worth more than Andrew Miller, right?

 

Robertson is coming off a down year with a much higher walk rate than his career average. Andrew Miller is one of the best pen arms in the game... Robertson doesn't even come close to that.

 

Robertson was outstanding his final 22 innings of the season, and really seemed to r"right the ship" so to speak

 

He is the best proven closer on the market and has now become a valuable trade chip. Hahn was smart for not tossing him into the Eaton deal

 

The Rockies have more potential to come up with a big package than other teams, as Rodgers is a significantly better prospect right now than Martes or Tucker.

[Bob Sacamano]

Robertson was outstanding his final 22 innings of the season, and really seemed to r"right the ship" so to speak

 

He is the best proven closer on the market and has now become a valuable trade chip. Hahn was smart for not tossing him into the Eaton deal

 

The Rockies have more potential to come up with a big package than other teams, as Rodgers is a significantly better prospect right now than Martes or Tucker.

 

I have a feeling we won't see Robertson dealt (unless packaged with Q or someone else) until Ziegler and Holland come off the market. I think those 2 are being coveted by contenders.

[GreenSox]

This is what Keith Law said:

 

Nick: If you were Lunhow, would you trade Musgrove + Martes + Tucker for Quintana, and why or why not? I go back and forth as an Astros fan but think I’d be happy with him pulling the trigger.

Klaw: If I’m Luhnow I do it. If I’m Hahn I’m not even countering because it’s so low. FWIW, I don’t know that that was ever discussed by the clubs.

Per Law's midseason rankings from last year, Tucker was #32 and the other 2 guys weren't present.

Based on those rankings, it is a light offer.

Edited December 16, 2016 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

Robertson was outstanding his final 22 innings of the season, and really seemed to r"right the ship" so to speak

 

He is the best proven closer on the market and has now become a valuable trade chip. Hahn was smart for not tossing him into the Eaton deal

 

The Rockies have more potential to come up with a big package than other teams, as Rodgers is a significantly better prospect right now than Martes or Tucker.

Any way I slice Robertson's last 1.5 months, I find his WHIP comes to about 1.2-ish, often a bit higher. That's better than the 1.3 he put up for the full 2016 season, but still dramatically worse than the previous 3 years where he was around 1.0. His K-rate was normal for him over that stretch, but he was giving up a lot of baserunners, at least for him.

 

It's always dangerous to play this game with a 22 inning stint, but that flows both ways. He got that ERA back down, but one home run would have been the difference between the ERA looking solid over that stint and looking meh, because he was putting people on base. OTOH, 6 of those baserunners came in the 2 game stretch august 9-10 against the Royals - maybe he was just feeling bad those days or something like that and those are the outliers.

 

I default to saying this is just who the guy is, he's basically looked the same to me for 2 seasons. He'll put together stretches of dominance where he looks unhittable, then he'll have a few days where he gets demolished by someone, then he'll have a stretch where he looks unhittable. Not an elite closer or reliever because of those short stints where he gets demolished, but certainly someone you could live with if you had an otherwise strong team and a hole at that slot.

[Dam8610]

Although I like the Astros top end package, getting Rodgers would be bigger than Tucker/Martes combined.

 

Also, you can't honestly think that David Robertson is worth more than Andrew Miller, right?

 

Robertson is coming off a down year with a much higher walk rate than his career average. Andrew Miller is one of the best pen arms in the game... Robertson doesn't even come close to that.

 

I don't get the Rodgers hype, other than that he was drafted 3rd overall in 2015. He's not tearing the cover off the ball, and his K rate is high, though not alarmingly high, but with a mediocre BB rate. Is it the power? I guess a .200 ISO while more than 2 years younger than league average is impressive, but that still was done at low A ball. I'd rather take a chance on Reed rebounding, Stubbs's high walk, low K, reasonable power bat that played well at high A and AA against age appropriate competition at the premium defensive position, as well as the potential of Tucker and Martes rather than putting most of the value gotten back for Q into Brendan Rogers. I'll admit that the top end talent in the Rockies deal is better, and if they were willing to add Tapia, even if it meant Freeland became a different, less attractive piece, I'd probably like their deal more.

 

As for Robertson, I'm not saying he's more valuable than either of the aforementioned players, but one netted 2 Top 100 prospects in all of baseball, with one being Top 20, and the other netted what may now be a Top 10 prospect in all of baseball, and both netted 4 total players. That's why I think Robertson is worth more than the proposed Nationals deal. Even being worth slightly less than them, he's worth more than that package.

 

[bmags]

Yes, it is the .200 iso as a 19 year old.

 

Edit: That plays shortstop

[steveno89]

I don't get the Rodgers hype, other than that he was drafted 3rd overall in 2015. He's not tearing the cover off the ball, and his K rate is high, though not alarmingly high, but with a mediocre BB rate. Is it the power? I guess a .200 ISO while more than 2 years younger than league average is impressive, but that still was done at low A ball. I'd rather take a chance on Reed rebounding, Stubbs's high walk, low K, reasonable power bat that played well at high A and AA against age appropriate competition at the premium defensive position, as well as the potential of Tucker and Martes rather than putting most of the value gotten back for Q into Brendan Rogers. I'll admit that the top end talent in the Rockies deal is better, and if they were willing to add Tapia, even if it meant Freeland became a different, less attractive piece, I'd probably like their deal more.

 

As for Robertson, I'm not saying he's more valuable than either of the aforementioned players, but one netted 2 Top 100 prospects in all of baseball, with one being Top 20, and the other netted what may now be a Top 10 prospect in all of baseball, and both netted 4 total players. That's why I think Robertson is worth more than the proposed Nationals deal. Even being worth slightly less than them, he's worth more than that package.

 

Robertson should be able to get us at least one top 100 prospect right now, likely 50-100. A good season could make him top 50 prospect worthy at the deadline though.

 

If a GM feels their team has a legitimate shot to be in the playoffs bullpen help is always welcome at the deadline. If Robertson has a solid season the return could be considerable.

 

Frazier is entering a contract year, and a good season could really increase his value at the deadline as well. Same goes for Melky as a rental.

[bmags]

Chapman and Miller got a lot at the deadline but Ken Giles and Kimbrel got a lot in the offseason and Thornburg just got a lot a few weeks ago.

 

I don't think it matters that much. Thornburg just netted a major league 3b and two prospects.