Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Balta1701]

Right...this may be the time to pounce to make sure they have him for 18...17 is just the "get acclimated" year. I could see that.

Until proven otherwise, 2018 seems like the year the Yankees would like to be "under" the luxury tax level if they're ever going to do so. I'm not sure if they're serious about actually doing that, but even with Chapman under contract they have a bunch of space available next offseason without hitting that line.

 

The motivation for going for Quintana now would be:

Give team a chance in 2017 and 2018

Do so without adding a large payroll boost in 2018 where new payroll would still be hit by the tax penalty

Do so without removing team's payroll flexibility in 2018 when they want to start playing the FA market but without crossing the tax line.

 

They'd be doing this because they'd think they have a shot at the Wild Card in 2017, and I'm not sure they'd be wrong based on their 2016 experience. They'd be grabbing Quintana specifically because he could help them make a run at that without damaging what they need to do to make Harper affordable.

[ChiSox59]

No way they'd give up all 3, maybe 2 if we're lucky. That said, I'd like to see the Sox avoid the high K power guys like Judge since they've shown they have trouble developing those types. I think Andujar would be more likely to develop well with the Sox, and makes the Yankees more likely to pull the trigger since he's not as highly ranked of a prospect.

 

Right...which is why I said a Frazier, Torres, Judge, and Fowler package makes me giddy.

[bmags]

Until proven otherwise, 2018 seems like the year the Yankees would like to be "under" the luxury tax level if they're ever going to do so. I'm not sure if they're serious about actually doing that, but even with Chapman under contract they have a bunch of space available next offseason without hitting that line.

 

The motivation for going for Quintana now would be:

Give team a chance in 2017 and 2018

Do so without adding a large payroll boost in 2018 where new payroll would still be hit by the tax penalty

Do so without removing team's payroll flexibility in 2018 when they want to start playing the FA market but without crossing the tax line.

 

They'd be doing this because they'd think they have a shot at the Wild Card in 2017, and I'm not sure they'd be wrong based on their 2016 experience. They'd be grabbing Quintana specifically because he could help them make a run at that without damaging what they need to do to make Harper affordable.

 

Thanks, this is what I was going to write. Yanks clearly have Harper earmarked for 18 and as such want to get under "repeat offender" tax before then. Quintana allows them to be competitive while not raising money. If ever there was a case to take on salary, this would be it (Headley).

 

There were compelling reasons why Q put teams like the Astros over the top, but the Yankees are a compelling team because of Qs contract.

 

This is also largely what pinstripe alley argues.

[Balta1701]

Thanks, this is what I was going to write. Yanks clearly have Harper earmarked for 18 and as such want to get under "repeat offender" tax before then. Quintana allows them to be competitive while not raising money. If ever there was a case to take on salary, this would be it (Headley).

 

There were compelling reasons why Q put teams like the Astros over the top, but the Yankees are a compelling team because of Qs contract.

 

This is also largely what pinstripe alley argues.

Ooh, taking on Headley to make this happen would be a very smart move if the Yankees were going to give up both top 50 guys in addition to the 4 pack. The White Sox take on payroll, it's worth a huge amount to the Yankees, they can go after Arrieta next summer more freely afterwards.

 

I might even throw in our Frazier for them if that would help, he's a short term commit that doesn't push up their '18 payroll either.

[ChiSox59]

Ooh, taking on Headley to make this happen would be a very smart move if the Yankees were going to give up both top 50 guys in addition to the 4 pack. The White Sox take on payroll, it's worth a huge amount to the Yankees, they can go after Arrieta next summer more freely afterwards.

 

I might even throw in our Frazier for them if that would help, he's a short term commit that doesn't push up their '18 payroll either.

 

Intriguing idea for sure.

[steveno89]

Intriguing idea for sure.

 

Certainly interesting if the White Sox would take back Headley in the deal to save the Yankees some money moving forward

[BlackSox13]

Yankees blogs seem to pretty rational in regards to Q.

Agreed. I admit that I did not expect Yankee fans to be this reasonable. It shows they have a pretty good perspective on their teams' needs and the market.

 

That is a solid read.

 

From a personal standpoint, I keep hearing about the Yankees farm system. To me, it seems like the least likely scenario possible that the Yankees patiently wait for their farm system to start paying dividends. To me, the reason the Yankees have a farm system is so that they can use them to get the players they want from other teams. I have thought that was the Yankees plan as soon as they started trading just their middle relievers. I could be wrong, but this is what I think, and if you view this through that lens, the Yankees being interested in Q makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Bingo, couldn't agree more. I'd like to add that I just cannot see the Yanks sitting in neutral while the Red Sox pull away. Boston and the Yanks have always tried to counter one another's moves and I see no reason why this would be any different. No chance the Yanks watch Boston acquire Sale without doing something to improve their rotation to show their fans they want to compete not just with Boston but the rest of the division as well.

[FT35]

Thanks, this is what I was going to write. Yanks clearly have Harper earmarked for 18 and as such want to get under "repeat offender" tax before then. Quintana allows them to be competitive while not raising money. If ever there was a case to take on salary, this would be it (Headley).

 

There were compelling reasons why Q put teams like the Astros over the top, but the Yankees are a compelling team because of Qs contract.

 

This is also largely what pinstripe alley argues.

 

It's true...and one would think that they have a VERY bad taste still from letting Q get away the first time--they might overpay just a smidge at the chance to get him back in their pinstripes! That's what I'm hoping for at least.

[bmags]

One of the comments on that yankees thread said the White Sox had a better offense and I laughed, then I looked it up and couldn't believe White Sox scored more runs than the Yankees last year.

[ChiSox59]

Certainly interesting if the White Sox would take back Headley in the deal to save the Yankees some money moving forward

 

Just for sh**ts and gigs, I wonder what a package with Headley coming back could look like.

 

To Yankees:

Quintana

Frazier

 

To White Sox:

Headley

Torres

Frazier

Rutherford

Judge

 

Lol, doubt it. I have a hard time imagining the 2 years and $26M they owe Headley moves the meter enough to give up 4 of their top 5 prospects. A man can dream though.

 

[Con te Giolito]

One of the comments on that yankees thread said the White Sox had a better offense and I laughed, then I looked it up and couldn't believe White Sox scored more runs than the Yankees last year.

And they were still contenders.

[steveno89]

Just for sh**ts and gigs, I wonder what a package with Headley coming back could look like.

 

To Yankees:

Quintana

Frazier

 

To White Sox:

Headley

Torres

Frazier

Rutherford

Judge

 

Lol, doubt it. I have a hard time imagining the 2 years and $26M they owe Headley moves the meter enough to give up 4 of their top 5 prospects. A man can dream though.

 

Pretty sure any White Sox fan would take that deal and run, but very unlikely from the Yankees point of view

[FT35]

And they were still contenders.

 

Ah...the value a MLB manager brings to a team...

[southsider2k5]

Until proven otherwise, 2018 seems like the year the Yankees would like to be "under" the luxury tax level if they're ever going to do so. I'm not sure if they're serious about actually doing that, but even with Chapman under contract they have a bunch of space available next offseason without hitting that line.

 

The motivation for going for Quintana now would be:

Give team a chance in 2017 and 2018

Do so without adding a large payroll boost in 2018 where new payroll would still be hit by the tax penalty

Do so without removing team's payroll flexibility in 2018 when they want to start playing the FA market but without crossing the tax line.

 

They'd be doing this because they'd think they have a shot at the Wild Card in 2017, and I'm not sure they'd be wrong based on their 2016 experience. They'd be grabbing Quintana specifically because he could help them make a run at that without damaging what they need to do to make Harper affordable.

 

As of today, the Yankees are right at the estimated payroll luxury tax line for 2017. If they shuffled dollars around right way, they will be under it for this next season.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NY...-salaries.shtml

[FT35]

Just for sh**ts and gigs, I wonder what a package with Headley coming back could look like.

 

To Yankees:

Quintana

Frazier

 

To White Sox:

Headley

Torres

Frazier

Rutherford

Judge

 

Lol, doubt it. I have a hard time imagining the 2 years and $26M they owe Headley moves the meter enough to give up 4 of their top 5 prospects. A man can dream though.

 

Another guy who gets sorta lost in the Judge hype in NY is Greg Bird. He's the same age as Judge but I think he has the makings of a much better hitter--plus he was MONEY in his short call-up--even in the clutch. Coming off the injury, I wonder if he would be a possibility if they won't budge on Judge? I know he's a 1B but still...could be an OF option, or a fallback at 1B if we move Abreu.

[Balta1701]

As of today, the Yankees are right at the estimated payroll luxury tax line for 2017. If they shuffled dollars around right way, they will be under it for this next season.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NY...-salaries.shtml

It sure looks to me like they're a likely bet to still be over the 2017 tax, and honestly if they cared about the tax in 2017 they wouldn't have signed Chapman for that kind of money or especially added Holliday on a 1 year deal (when the hell did that happen?).

 

I've thought that the Yankees would try to get out of the multi-year penalty before and they've still been willing to pay it so I'm hesitant to truly say this is what they'll do...but that $130 million committed in 2018 leaves them a huge amount of room underneath it then. They could add 2 major pieces next offseason and still have room under the tax level. If they're ever actually going to try to get out from the multiyear penalty, that's the year that they'll do it.

[Dam8610]

Why does anyone want Judge? Put him in the Sox development system, and he's a guaranteed bust. His K rate is WAY too high, and the Sox don't know how to fix that. Give me Andujar over Judge every time.

[steveno89]

Why does anyone want Judge? Put him in the Sox development system, and he's a guaranteed bust. His K rate is WAY too high, and the Sox don't know how to fix that. Give me Andujar over Judge every time.

 

Nobody wants Judge, because everyone sees how he is on the clear path to being a bust

 

Mateo's stock is down as well after posting a subpar .685 OPS this season in high A ball. That is concerning enough for me to remove him from the top 100 prospects list.

 

I would not accept him as anything more than a third piece in a Quintana deal

 

I really don't see a deal getting done because it would require the Yankees to part with a ton of their minor league talent.

[BlackSox13]

Why does anyone want Judge? Put him in the Sox development system, and he's a guaranteed bust. His K rate is WAY too high, and the Sox don't know how to fix that. Give me Andujar over Judge every time.

Judge has huge power potential and that's pretty tantalizing to fans of a team that plays in a small park and yet does not hit enough home runs. I completely understand why Sox fans would want Judge, despite the fact I'd prefer other Yankee prospects over Judge.

[Dam8610]

Judge has huge power potential and that's pretty tantalizing to fans of a team that plays in a small park and yet does not hit enough home runs. I completely understand why Sox fans would want Judge, despite the fact I'd prefer other Yankee prospects over Judge.

 

How many of these guys have to bust before Sox fans will learn that that type of player just does not develop in the White Sox farm system?

 

[steveno89]

Judge has huge power potential and that's pretty tantalizing to fans of a team that plays in a small park and yet does not hit enough home runs. I completely understand why Sox fans would want Judge, despite the fact I'd prefer other Yankee prospects over Judge.

 

Small sample size, but him striking out at a 44% clip in 27 mlb games is abysmal. This would concern me less if he were 21/22/23 years old, but he will turn 25 in February. His defense is passable at best, so you are really betting on power potential only. He will really need to improve his contact if he is going to stick at the mlb level.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

How many of these guys have to bust before Sox fans will learn that that type of player just does not develop in the White Sox farm system?

 

If the White Sox system isn't going to develop position players then undertaking a rebuild was the absolute stupidest thing they could have done.

[steveno89]

How many of these guys have to bust before Sox fans will learn that that type of player just does not develop in the White Sox farm system?

 

It's no coincidence that the Sox organization has shifted towards drafting and developing players who know how to get on base

 

Collins and Fisher led the NCAA in OBP this past season

 

 

[BlackSox13]

How many of these guys have to bust before Sox fans will learn that that type of player just does not develop in the White Sox farm system?

So the Sox should give up on power hitters then? What's the alternative?

[bmags]

Judge has huge power potential and that's pretty tantalizing to fans of a team that plays in a small park and yet does not hit enough home runs. I completely understand why Sox fans would want Judge, despite the fact I'd prefer other Yankee prospects over Judge.

 

There's a weird piling on of judge right now. I don't necessarily want him in a Q deal, but sometimes players do need time to develop.

 

He dramatically improved between years 1 and 2 in AAA as you'd like to see. He strikes out, but he was still k'ing at under 30% in AAA and walking at a nice 12% clip. In his abysmal, small sample size, he still walked 10% of the time.