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Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go


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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:56 PM)
LOL. I'd be happy to get Meadows, Bell and Keller for Q. If we throw in Jones we get Glasnow? Sign me up!

Honestly, I like Glasnow...but with what the White Sox have already done I'd be really iffy about taking back another front line starting pitcher. Even if Quintana is moved, like it or not there are only so many innings to go around with these guys. Rodon, Fulmer, Kopech, Lopez, and Giolito is a set of 5 guys who, by mid-2018 at the latest, are all going to be needing big league innings in the rotation to establish themselves and to either sink/swim. Add in the fact that we're already holding Shields and he needs innings also, and man we are close to not having enough innings for the guys we have. Yes that's a good problem to have because guys do fail, but you also still expect some guys to rise up from lower levels during that time period also.

 

Basically, if you trade for Glasnow, I think it puts you in a position where you have to trade one of the other starters within a year, and I don't like being forced to trade young guys to create playing time. Being forced to trade one of those guys undermines the reason for trading them. Add in Glasnow and suddenly I start switching from "it's ok, we need pitching" to "stop acquiring pitchers!"

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I've always thought the Pirates made sense. Before the rebuild became official, I was afraid of a Cutch-Q trade (considering Williams, and by association, Hahn, seem to look at statistics from at least 2 years prior, when they make trades for veteran players).

They have the prospects. And they want to contend.

The Pirates want to dump players before their contract runs out; they will look to dump Cole next year, and Q is the perfect replacement.

The Pirates also draft well, so they are probably reasonably confident in their ability to regenerate more prospects.

And unless they sell-off goes perfectly, which it won't, the Sox will have to create some of their own elite prospects to build this thing back up. That big question, coupled with their ongoing inability to evaluate veterans (which they will have to do when building back up) is the big risk in this Sox rebuild.

 

Hold firm with the price; there is competition now. The asking price to Astros wasn't overly high anyway, despite the baseball media spin.

Edited by GreenSox
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QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:04 PM)
FWIW, Dan Szymborski just said he think Quintana should bring back Meadows AND Bell.

I could see that being the heart of a Quintana trade and the value is fair...but Bell is such a good fit for the Pirates needs that I think they would work hard to get around that. That's why I looked down the list to Diaz + one of their other position players - add in a catcher and another piece somewhere and you make a deal that starts to look sensible for both sides.

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 10:08 AM)
This has been one heckuva fascinating offseason, what with getting so intimately familiar with the farm systems of Boston, Houston, Texas, Atlanta, Washington, Dodgers, Yankees, Colorado, and now Pittsburgh. Did I miss anyone!!

 

:D

+1

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:03 PM)
Basically, if you trade for Glasnow, I think it puts you in a position where you have to trade one of the other starters within a year, and I don't like being forced to trade young guys to create playing time. Being forced to trade one of those guys undermines the reason for trading them. Add in Glasnow and suddenly I start switching from "it's ok, we need pitching" to "stop acquiring pitchers!"

 

 

I want position players as well. I don't think having a 6th young pitcher is unreasonable though. One of the 5 we have could regress or get injured. And if they don't, Rodon could be moved since he is a Boras client and will have more service time than the others.

 

I want Meadows or no deal with Pirates. If the deal doesn't make the Pirates say ouch, it is not good enough. I would much rather keep Q and watch him pitch than settle for a lackluster return.

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:05 PM)
I've always thought the Pirates made sense. Before the rebuild became official, I was afraid of a Cutch-Q trade (considering Williams, and by association, Hahn, seem to look at statistics from at least 2 years prior, when they make trades for veteran players).

They have the prospects. And they want to contend.

The Pirates want to dump players before their contract runs out; they will look to dump Cole next year, and Q is the perfect replacement.

The Pirates also draft well, so they are probably reasonably confident in their ability to regenerate more prospects.

And unless they sell-off goes perfectly, which it won't, the Sox will have to create some of their own elite prospects to build this thing back up. That, coupled with their ongoing inability to evaluate veterans (which they will have to do when building back up) is the big risk in this Sox rebuild.

Garrit Cole is just about to enter his first year of arbitration and won't become a FA until the after the '19 season is over.

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QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:12 PM)
I want position players as well. I don't think having a 6th young pitcher is unreasonable though. One of the 5 we have could regress or get injured. And if they don't, Rodon could be moved since he is a Boras client and will have more service time than the others.

 

I want Meadows or no deal with Pirates. If the deal doesn't make the Pirates say ouch, it is not good enough. I would much rather keep Q and watch him pitch than settle for a lackluster return.

Hell, don't forget we have Dunning down there already. It's not unreasonable to expect one of the 5 to fail, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect them all to need time in the bigs for that to shake out. I'll take a starter back, but they have to be 2+ years away or I'm going to undervalue them in my mind because we just flat out don't have room for them right now.

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QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:18 PM)
I'd target position prospects all things being equal, but if we really like some other pitcher, I don't see the issue.

 

Besides failing and/or trades, it wouldn't be crazy if someone ended up in the bullpen too.

Again yes someone could wind up in the bullpen...but you're not going to want to force someone there. That's the key here - you need playing time to see which guys will fail.

 

If you traded Quintana for Taillon straight up, and that forced Kopech to the bullpen in 2018 because that's the only place where there are innings available, you traded Quintana to add a pitcher to your bullpen, which seems like a major failure. That knocks down the value of anyone who should be starting in the big leagues.

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QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:35 PM)
Surprised no mention of Will Craig as part of a package. Though I suppose he is tough to assign value to at this point, being a 2016 1st rounder with little pro experience.

 

Craig should be viewed as a 1b/dh prospect as he has well below average speed and fielding ability.

 

He has a good plate approach, draws walks and should hit for some power, but his defensive limitations hurt his value

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QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:44 PM)
Craig should be viewed as a 1b/dh prospect as he has well below average speed and fielding ability.

 

He has a good plate approach, draws walks and should hit for some power, but his defensive limitations hurt his value

 

He could be a third or fourth piece.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:51 PM)
You're telling me if Huntington offers Glasnow and Bell + that you say no because you require Meadows?

 

I like Glasgow a lot, but ideally we would focus on targeting elite position player prospects in return for Quintana.

 

it would depend on what the entire package looked like

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