Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[GreenSox]

There is zero chance the White Sox have too much pitching, but they do need to get at least some position players. Pitchers do have a higher bust rate.

 

2 or 3 years from now, if you need to fill 4 or 5 staring position players spots, you are going to be having some problems.

Like exactly where they are now IF 2 pitchers turn out to be the equivalent of Q and Sale.They can always move pitchers later, but that involves more steps, more risk.

 

Another risk with more young AA/AAA starters is that it will create a bit of a logjam, which might increase the chances that the Sox don't abide the proper timing in moving the pitchers into the Majors, if not actually rush one or two up. The Sox natural instincts are to rush prospects as it is.

Edited December 21, 2016 by GreenSox

[hi8is]

True or false: he who signs Encarnacion, trades for Q

[QuickJones81]

Honestly, I like Glasnow...but with what the White Sox have already done I'd be really iffy about taking back another front line starting pitcher. Even if Quintana is moved, like it or not there are only so many innings to go around with these guys. Rodon, Fulmer, Kopech, Lopez, and Giolito is a set of 5 guys who, by mid-2018 at the latest, are all going to be needing big league innings in the rotation to establish themselves and to either sink/swim. Add in the fact that we're already holding Shields and he needs innings also, and man we are close to not having enough innings for the guys we have. Yes that's a good problem to have because guys do fail, but you also still expect some guys to rise up from lower levels during that time period also.

 

Basically, if you trade for Glasnow, I think it puts you in a position where you have to trade one of the other starters within a year, and I don't like being forced to trade young guys to create playing time. Being forced to trade one of those guys undermines the reason for trading them. Add in Glasnow and suddenly I start switching from "it's ok, we need pitching" to "stop acquiring pitchers!"

 

I don't think you can ever get too many top pitching or shortstop prospects. Even in the off chance you end up with more than your team can field, which is probably unlikely, you still have the most valuable trade chip in baseball today. Flip your excess for another monster package. Watch your teams value grow even more.

[Bob Sacamano]

True or false: he who signs Encarnacion, trades for Q

 

True, Rockies is my answer. But I have no idea lol

Edited December 21, 2016 by soxfan2014

[GreenSox]

True or false: he who signs Encarnacion, trades for Q

False

And if it turns out to be true, it will be via 3-way deal.

[hi8is]

I'm so tired of hearing that Quintana is a number 2. All the MLBN pundants were spewing that crap just now.

[Chicago White Sox]

http://m.pirates.mlb.com/news/article/2120...-jose-quintana/

I like that the team site has an article about this rumor, might actually be some legs here.

[bmags]

I like that the team site has an article about this rumor, might actually be some legs here.

 

Much better outcome than the rumor being shot down right away (as with Yankees)

[Chicago White Sox]

Much better outcome than the rumor being shot down right away (as with Yankees)

Exactly, which is what I would expect if this was total BS.

[Whisox05]

I like that the team site has an article about this rumor, might actually be some legs here.

 

Same thing I'm thinking. Whens its from the actual pirates site it has to be somewhat serious.

[ptatc]

I'm so tired of hearing that Quintana is a number 2. All the MLBN pundants were spewing that crap just now.

I think you'll keep hearing it until he actually leads a rotation. Not that I agree but until he shows it. It's just not common for a guy to be an MiLB FA and perform the way he has. He has never had the hype in his career.

[hi8is]

Much better outcome than the rumor being shot down right away (as with Yankees)

With all respect, that could have just been a negotiation tactic - my guess is the Yankees have been in more serious discussions than they've recently let on.

[hi8is]

I think you'll keep hearing it until he actually leads a rotation. Not that I agree but until he shows it. It's just not common for a guy to be an MiLB FA and perform the way he has. He has never had the hype in his career.

True that, hommie. One more reason to keep rooting for Q, with or without the Sox.

 

Happy holidays, by the way.

[Chicago White Sox]

There is zero chance the White Sox have too much pitching, but they do need to get at least some position players. Pitchers do have a higher bust rate.

 

2 or 3 years from now, if you need to fill 4 or 5 staring position players spots, you are going to be having some problems.

I agree with this. Between Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, Fulmer, Hansen, Adams, & Stephens we have a lot of interesting arms, but only one of them is an established major league starter. While I would prefer to add some positional players, I'm not completely against getting another high upside arm in a Quintana deal. Ultimately with our blue chip assets we need to get back the most value possible regardless of position.

[Dick Allen]

I think you'll keep hearing it until he actually leads a rotation. Not that I agree but until he shows it. It's just not common for a guy to be an MiLB FA and perform the way he has. He has never had the hype in his career.

He was overshadowed by Sale playing on a mediocre team. He was the Ben Zobrist of pitching. Guys get lost in the shuffle. Even here were people know more than the average, when there was talk about Zobrist, some thought he would make a good reserve. The guy put up 8.6, 3.8, 6.3 ,5.8, 5.0, 5.5 WAR seasons in a 6 year stretch. He was virtually unknown to be one of the best players in the game. When you thought of best players, he wouldn't come to mind, just like anyone who doesn't follow the White Sox doesn't really think of Jose Quintana when they think about the better pitchers in the game.

[ptatc]

True that, hommie. One more reason to keep rooting for Q, with or without the Sox.

 

Happy holidays, by the way.

 

i always like to root for the underdog or forgotten.

 

Happy Holidays to you as well. Celebrate well!

[ptatc]

He was overshadowed by Sale playing on a mediocre team. He was the Ben Zobrist of pitching. Guys get lost in the shuffle. Even here were people know more than the average, when there was talk about Zobrist, some thought he would make a good reserve. The guy put up 8.6, 3.8, 6.3 ,5.8, 5.0, 5.5 WAR seasons in a 6 year stretch. He was virtually unknown to be one of the best players in the game. When you thought of best players, he wouldn't come to mind, just like anyone who doesn't follow the White Sox doesn't really think of Jose Quintana when they think about the better pitchers in the game.

Agreed. It's the classic scout versus numbers player as well. The numbers show he is one of the best. Scouts will wonder if he has the mental makeup and stuff to be the leader of the rotation.

[CyAcosta41]

I'm so tired of hearing that Quintana is a number 2. All the MLBN pundants were spewing that crap just now.

 

Agreed!

 

The only time those designations mean anything is Opening Day and in the playoffs. Throughout the season, you match-up with the other team's starters based on whose number is called for that given day.

 

Q is dissed regularly because he doesn't have eye-popping pure stuff. That said, his stuff is far better than most casual observers realize AND his results speak for themselves. By virtually every metric he is unquestionably a Top-20 starter in all of baseball. Given that, on many, many teams, he's going to be the statistically accomplished "best starter" on that staff. And he's been that way for 4 years now, pitching under an insanely below market contract, and with a track record that suggests absolutely minimal risk going forward (for a human being that does something than an arm isn't anatomically designed to do).

 

Any sane GM (posturing aside and under the influence of truth serum) will look at Q as a Top 20 in baseball. Period. Calling him a #1 or #2 matters little, other than providing fodder for the talking heads. Is he a classic #1 in the way most people think of a #1. No, but who cares? In performance he certainly is. He looks like a #2 ... he performs like a middle of the pack #1. His off-the-chart dominant games are rare -- a couple of out and out gems each season. But his dog-games are every bit as rare too. And all of the extras he brings to a team have significant value aside.

 

Love Q. Every GM would love him as a top performer on ANY staff in baseball. Who cares what fans think. Hahn knows his value. He's tradeable, if another GM will pay that value. Otherwise, you wait until someone does. And someone will.

[ptatc]

Agreed!

 

The only time those designations mean anything is Opening Day and in the playoffs. Throughout the season, you match-up with the other team's starters based on whose number is called for that given day.

 

Q is dissed regularly because he doesn't have eye-popping pure stuff. That said, his stuff is far better than most casual observers realize AND his results speak for themselves. By virtually every metric he is unquestionably a Top-20 starter in all of baseball. Given that, on many, many teams, he's going to be the statistically accomplished "best starter" on that staff. And he's been that way for 4 years now, pitching under an insanely below market contract, and with a track record that suggests absolutely minimal risk going forward (for a human being that does something than an arm isn't anatomically designed to do).

 

Any sane GM (posturing aside and under the influence of truth serum) will look at Q as a Top 20 in baseball. Period. Calling him a #1 or #2 matters little, other than providing fodder for the talking heads. Is he a classic #1 in the way most people think of a #1. No, but who cares? In performance he certainly is. He looks like a #2 ... he performs like a middle of the pack #1. His off-the-chart dominant games are rare -- a couple of out and out gems each season. But his dog-games are every bit as rare too. And all of the extras he brings to a team have significant value aside.

 

Love Q. Every GM would love him as a top performer on ANY staff in baseball. Who cares what fans think. Hahn knows his value. He's tradeable, if another GM will pay that value. Otherwise, you wait until someone does. And someone will.

The problem is, I don't think it's just fans. I think others around the MLB have similar doubts which is why an offer acceptable to the Sox hasn't materialized. The lack of dominance i think plays a role in that perception.

[Con te Giolito]

With all respect, that could have just been a negotiation tactic - my guess is the Yankees have been in more serious discussions than they've recently let on.

Agreed. Yanks didn't want to let it be known they were interested and spark a bidding war. This Pirates news timed with the Morosi tweet hints that the Pirates upped their offer fearing Yankees involvement. Now Cashman either has to up his price or pull back, two things GM's dont want to do.

[CyAcosta41]

Agreed. It's the classic scout versus numbers player as well. The numbers show he is one of the best. Scouts will wonder if he has the mental makeup and stuff to be the leader of the rotation.

 

There IS an importance in the "leader of the rotation" part. Agreed. And the uncertainty about that, for example, is one significant reason Sale is more highly regarded than Q.

 

That said, Q is top-20 starter in all of baseball material. Often, under many metrics, top 10-12. He has extreme value for anyone, especially with his contract, durability, mechanics, style of pitching, and unflappable makeup.

 

But other than in direct #1 vs #1 style post-season match-ups, the is he a middle tier #1 or a stud #2 question means nothing to me. The #1 vs #1 playoff match-up thing is TBD. We'll see. I'd love the Pirates to advance and would love to see Q dominate. But if that was the sole measure of a pitcher's true worth, then Clayton Kershaw wouldn't be anybody's idea of a #1 would he, despite the near-unanimous belief that he's the best pitcher in baseball.

[Balta1701]

I agree with this. Between Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, Fulmer, Hansen, Adams, & Stephens we have a lot of interesting arms, but only one of them is an established major league starter. While I would prefer to add some positional players, I'm not completely against getting another high upside arm in a Quintana deal. Ultimately with our blue chip assets we need to get back the most value possible regardless of position.

I'm not against getting a high upside arm in a Quintana deal, but I am against getting one that would be MLB-ready in 2017 or 2018. While I agree you cannot have too much pitching, I believe that you can have too much pitching that arrives all at once. Having no role for one of these guys at the moment they were ready would be an extremely bad move - you'd be minimizing the utility of the talent you have, when the best way to rebuild is to maximize every asset you have. We're trying to develop these guys and that means we need to have slots open for them when they arrive. 5 young pitchers in the 2018 rotation is a good number. You give me a guy who will be in A-ball this year and I'm ok with that return, AA I'm much more questionable, AAA or big league ready and basically I would treat their value as being that of a reliever, because even if that pitcher doesn't wind up in the bullpen he'd push one of the guys we already acquired into the pen.

[Dick Allen]

Agreed. Yanks didn't want to let it be known they were interested and spark a bidding war. This Pirates news timed with the Morosi tweet hints that the Pirates upped their offer fearing Yankees involvement. Now Cashman either has to up his price or pull back, two things GM's dont want to do.

I still think this is another White Sox plant. The Pirates are decent, but they had the same record as the White Sox in 2016. There are a lot of good teams in the NL. Seems blowing up their farm at a chance at a WC would be weird. They need a lot of things to go right to be back in playoff mode. Even with Q taking no one off their major league roster.

 

This kind of reminds me of all the supposed "interest" in Viciedo a couple of years ago, although I am sure these teams would love Q, I don't think right now the Yankees or Pirates meeting the price makes much sense from their point of view. It may be a ploy to get the other teams involved.

 

I am sure the White Sox would rather have their price met now than at the deadline or later when a drop in performance or injury are risks.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

There IS an importance in the "leader of the rotation" part. Agreed. And the uncertainty about that, for example, is one significant reason Sale is more highly regarded than Q.

 

That said, Q is top-20 starter in all of baseball material. Often, under many metrics, top 10-12. He has extreme value for anyone, especially with his contract, durability, mechanics, style of pitching, and unflappable makeup.

 

But other than in direct #1 vs #1 style post-season match-ups, the is he a middle tier #1 or a stud #2 question means nothing to me. The #1 vs #1 playoff match-up thing is TBD. We'll see. I'd love the Pirates to advance and would love to see Q dominate. But if that was the sole measure of a pitcher's true worth, then Clayton Kershaw wouldn't be anybody's idea of a #1 would he, despite the near-unanimous belief that he's the best pitcher in baseball.

i agree with everything you said. That is why this trade, or lack thereof, is a really interesting case.

 

I'm firmly in the camp, that if the Sox don't get an outstanding prospect package offer, they should keep him. He may be worth more the the Sox than the market offers. Even the way it looks now he could be the leader of the rotation when the sox are good again.

[iWiN4PreP]

Anyone know if this trade is anywhere close to being completed? Perhaps today? Or is this impossible to know/infer.