Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[username]

Rangers involved as well: https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/81166026057438003

 

 

[CyAcosta41]

The problem is, I don't think it's just fans. I think others around the MLB have similar doubts which is why an offer acceptable to the Sox hasn't materialized. The lack of dominance i think plays a role in that perception.

 

I think it is just fans. I think when you hear it from a team -- like the Astros -- it's BS posturing and isn't worth anything. The fans says such things and GMs parrot it when it serves their interest to do so.

 

The industry knows. The Sox haven't received an acceptable offer ... yet. Rizzo got ripped after the Eaton trade and Hahn is dealing with the fallout of that -- nobody wants to be considered his next "victim" (and Q's lack of national reputation will almost insure that this happens).

 

I agree. He's rarely truly dominant. And because of that he's often going to be considered the underdog in a post season mano a mano between #1s. But the guy rarely has a bad game too. It seems game after game of 7-IP, 2-ER, low whip, and a deceptive amount of Ks. And I think his numbers are going to get significantly stronger in AAAA, umm, I mean the National League.

 

He shouldn't get a Sale return (although, again, the Pirates NEED Q while the Bosox didn't truly need Sale). But the difference is fairly minor, especially when you factor in his extra year of control.

[Whisox05]

The #Rangers are another club that's inquired on #WhiteSox Jose Quintana. But Texas is probably not serious suitor unless price drops.

https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/811660260574380032

 

The teams discussed Quintana at trade deadline. Heard #WhiteSox wanted Profar and a "lot more.'' The ask was too steep for #Rangers tastes.

https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/811660399171014656

[FT35]

Couple thoughts about a Quintana trade. Some of us need a perspective check because I keep hearing sheepish suggestions of trade offers--many leaving out the top names of other teams' prospect lists.

 

Reiterating what another poster brought up earlier...we got Moncada and Giolito in trades earlier this off season. Those are top 5 prospects. I'm really surprised to see so many posters say certain prospects are "surely off limits" when we have already been receiving the very top 1-5 prospects in the game as a starting point to even larger packages! When guys like Austin Meadows are mentioned--they are blue chip prospects, but not even top 5--I'm looking at what else can be added to get that value up--not whether Meadows would be available--it's more whether they have the depth to add enough to Meadows to get a deal done. The fact that we are even talking to the Pirates is BECAUSE they have a guy like Meadows to headline a package that would be enough to get Q. There are many teams right now who do NOT have that top 10 name to START the discussion.

 

SO...if you are one who has been nervously hesitant to bring up certain prospects' names as if to say we shouldn't even mention them...I would suggest thinking MUCH bigger--because if they are a prospect at ANY level of the game, they ARE in play for a player like Quintana. Quintana isn't just a guy you trade for, he's a guy who you break the bank to make sure YOU are the team who gets him and not a competitor--because whoever gets him will be enabled to acquire a young, controllable all-star front line starter at virtually no cost $ wise. So yes...to pay for that will require a complete scrounging of whatever value your minor league system holds and hope your offer is more than just about every other team who has intentions of contending in the next 3 years. Especially if you are smaller market with a lower free agent budget, this is your very rare shot to acquire a difference maker for very little monetary compensation.

 

On the flip side...if you're the Sox...you can choose which package suits your liking the most. If you don't see that top 5, top 10 name, or an offer that might lack that name but is VERY saturated with multiple top 50 names, you confidently say Merry Christmas to you and yours, but no thank you!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Anyone know if this trade is anywhere close to being completed? Perhaps today? Or is this impossible to know/infer.

 

Impossible to know unless whitesoxdave or rabbit can fill us in.

Edited December 21, 2016 by soxfan2014

[ptatc]

I think it is just fans. I think when you hear it from a team -- like the Astros -- it's BS posturing and isn't worth anything. The fans says such things and GMs parrot it when it serves their interest to do so.

 

The industry knows. The Sox haven't received an acceptable offer ... yet. Rizzo got ripped after the Eaton trade and Hahn is dealing with the fallout of that -- nobody wants to be considered his next "victim" (and Q's lack of national reputation will almost insure that this happens).

 

I agree. He's rarely truly dominant. And because of that he's often going to be considered the underdog in a post season mano a mano between #1s. But the guy rarely has a bad game too. It seems game after game of 7-IP, 2-ER, low whip, and a deceptive amount of Ks. And I think his numbers are going to get significantly stronger in AAAA, umm, I mean the National League.

 

He shouldn't get a Sale return (although, again, the Pirates NEED Q while the Bosox didn't truly need Sale). But the difference is fairly minor, especially when you factor in his extra year of control.

I hope you're right. i would like to see the Sox continue to build for the future. However, as I said before I think he could be leader of the rotation when the Sox are good again. i wouldn't be to disappointed if they keep him.

[shakes]

He was overshadowed by Sale playing on a mediocre team. He was the Ben Zobrist of pitching. Guys get lost in the shuffle. Even here were people know more than the average, when there was talk about Zobrist, some thought he would make a good reserve. The guy put up 8.6, 3.8, 6.3 ,5.8, 5.0, 5.5 WAR seasons in a 6 year stretch. He was virtually unknown to be one of the best players in the game. When you thought of best players, he wouldn't come to mind, just like anyone who doesn't follow the White Sox doesn't really think of Jose Quintana when they think about the better pitchers in the game.

 

I do agree it's about exposure, but I think it has more to do with lack of postseason exposure. If you look at Q's career against Lester or Cole Hamels , he was as good or better at this stage in their careers. His k/9 is a bit lower, but some of that has to do with pitching philosophy, but their repertoires and average velocity are all very similar. Q is not a soft tosser by any means, he just hasn't shown off on the big stage yet.

 

In the end I think Hahn values him properly and that's all that matters. Not what Astros bloggers and Buster Olney think.

[Con te Giolito]

I still think this is another White Sox plant. The Pirates are decent, but they had the same record as the White Sox in 2016. There are a lot of good teams in the NL. Seems blowing up their farm at a chance at a WC would be weird. They need a lot of things to go right to be back in playoff mode. Even with Q taking no one off their major league roster.

 

This kind of reminds me of all the supposed "interest" in Viciedo a couple of years ago, although I am sure these teams would love Q, I don't think right now the Yankees or Pirates meeting the price makes much sense from their point of view. It may be a ploy to get the other teams involved.

Well lets say the Pirates are including Meadows and not including Glasnow. If they get Quintana that would give them a Cole-Quintana-Taillon-Glasnow frontline for the next 3 years plus a whole bunch of pretty strong pitching prospect on the verge of becoming top prospects themselves. With age coming for Lester and Arrieta intent on pursuing free agency it would give the Pirates a pretty big boost nabbing Quintana.

 

Pirates have a lot of talent, not quite Yankees level but in that tier. The way they draft they can withstand a hit to the farm to gain a pitcher like Quintana.

[ptatc]

Impossible to know unless whitesoxdave or rabbit can fill us in.

If bucket appears you can bet it is getting close as well.

[bmags]

I wish the possibility of Meadows wasn't dangled in front of my face as it is now much harder to get off of it.

 

 

 

 

[Con te Giolito]

Hot Stove definitely heating up.

[CyAcosta41]

i agree with everything you said. That is why this trade, or lack thereof, is a really interesting case.

 

I'm firmly in the camp, that if the Sox don't get an outstanding prospect package offer, they should keep him. He may be worth more the the Sox than the market offers. Even the way it looks now he could be the leader of the rotation when the sox are good again.

 

Bingo, right?

 

Keep him then. There is the 2017 trade-deadline (when our desire for prospects won't hamper his return -- yes, fewer teams will pony-up then, but some team might unleash all the hounds to land that one missing piece) too.

 

Hahn has played his cards masterfully this off-season. Those early deals were the hard part. Now, it's sit back and wait for someone to pay the piper. Pay it and you get a very very good starting pitcher. But Rick Hahn isn't going to let said very very good starting pitcher go for an underwhelming return because most fans, some more astute bloggers, and even some GMs fail to give Jose Quintana his just due.

[Quin]

What would Q's perception be without Sale on the Sox? He's probably a 3 or 4 time All-Star

[Dunt]

I really think this ends up being some sort of 3 way with the Mets. Makes too much sense for all 3 teams.

[Dick Allen]

Well lets say the Pirates are including Meadows and not including Glasnow. If they get Quintana that would give them a Cole-Quintana-Taillon-Glasnow frontline for the next 3 years plus a whole bunch of pretty strong pitching prospect on the verge of becoming top prospects themselves. With age coming for Lester and Arrieta intent on pursuing free agency it would give the Pirates a pretty big boost nabbing Quintana.

 

Pirates have a lot of talent, not quite Yankees level but in that tier. The way they draft they can withstand a hit to the farm to gain a pitcher like Quintana.

They went from almost trading Cutch to trade the farm for Quintana a window is open?

 

I have no doubt they would love to add Quintana. I have no doubt they have asked about him. What I do doubt is that they are willing to pay the price. They could be "working hard", but how hard is it? This is what it would take, yes or no?

[bmags]

I don't think we need to worry about our returns not being met yet. The market has slowed considerably from the Winter MEetings, but we haven't even seen a near-end to the free agent class. Look at the players still available!

 

This year with pitching what it is and the farms of winning teams getting better, now is the time and we will get a good offer.

 

Just remember that the teams that are playoff bound WILL continue to add, so some of these prospects may be gone and gone to teams who are rebuilding as well.

 

 

[Con te Giolito]

They went from almost trading Cutch to trade the farm for Quintana a window is open?

 

I have no doubt they would love to add Quintana. I have no doubt they have asked about him. What I do doubt is that they are willing to pay the price. They could be "working hard", but how hard is it? This is what it would take, yes or no?

Well if they are going to deal Meadows they are going to keep Cutch.

[Dunt]

The #Rangers are another club that's inquired on #WhiteSox Jose Quintana. But Texas is probably not serious suitor unless price drops.

https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/811660260574380032

 

The teams discussed Quintana at trade deadline. Heard #WhiteSox wanted Profar and a "lot more.'' The ask was too steep for #Rangers tastes.

https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/811660399171014656

 

They have nothing to offer anyways if Mazara isn't part of the package

[steveno89]

They have nothing to offer anyways if Mazara isn't part of the package

 

I seriously do not get the Profar love. He is only under team control for three more seasons, and has been a replacement level player so far in his mlb career. Hard pass

[Quin]

Rank your trade partners:

 

Yankees

Pirates

Rockies

Rangers

Astros

[bmags]

They went from almost trading Cutch to trade the farm for Quintana a window is open?

 

I have no doubt they would love to add Quintana. I have no doubt they have asked about him. What I do doubt is that they are willing to pay the price. They could be "working hard", but how hard is it? This is what it would take, yes or no?

 

Here are some possible catalysts:

- There was huge blowback from the McCutchen rumors

- The rumor of the deal the Pirates thought they had for Cutch was based around Giolito, who is a dynamic cost controlled arm that could be ready for 2017 ( and someone the Pirates esteemed pitching coach could have been drooling over)

- That would have been banking on Meadows being ready and getting them more long term pitching

- Quintana satiates the same cost controlled arm while continuing to bet on city favorite mccutchen.

 

It's a bit of shuffling around but that seems more normal to me. This whole "you are either the best team in the league or you should sell everyone" mentality is kinda weird for me to live in.

 

The bucs waited 2 decades to be good, why sell their window short after 3 years?

[bmags]

Rank your trade partners:

 

Yankees

Pirates

Rockies

Rangers

Astros

 

When you think Rangers what players are you thinking of?

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm not against getting a high upside arm in a Quintana deal, but I am against getting one that would be MLB-ready in 2017 or 2018. While I agree you cannot have too much pitching, I believe that you can have too much pitching that arrives all at once. Having no role for one of these guys at the moment they were ready would be an extremely bad move - you'd be minimizing the utility of the talent you have, when the best way to rebuild is to maximize every asset you have. We're trying to develop these guys and that means we need to have slots open for them when they arrive. 5 young pitchers in the 2018 rotation is a good number. You give me a guy who will be in A-ball this year and I'm ok with that return, AA I'm much more questionable, AAA or big league ready and basically I would treat their value as being that of a reliever, because even if that pitcher doesn't wind up in the bullpen he'd push one of the guys we already acquired into the pen.

Assuming Q gets traded, we'll only have one guy guaranteed a spot in our rotation in Rodon. Right now, the only near major league ready guys are Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer. Once June comes along and if these guys prove they are ready, we'll make room for them. The next wave of guys (Kopech, Adams, Stephens) will be starting the year in AA and probably be ready for a shot at the big leagues until mid 2018 best case scenario. Even if the four guys I previously mentioned all stay healthy and are showing signs of becoming productive major league starters, which is unlikely IMO, we'd still have room for one of these AA arms to crack the rotation. And in the unlikely event we're overloaded with pitching, we can move some of these guys for a bat. I get what you're saying Balta, but I don't think our pitching depth in the upper minors is as overloaded as you think.

[Bob Sacamano]

I seriously do not get the Profar love. He is only under team control for three more seasons, and has been a replacement level player so far in his mlb career. Hard pass

 

It's such bulls*** that he missed 2 full seasons and accrued 2 full seasons service time. Too bad they couldn't minor league dl him like the Angels did all year with Skaggs this past season.

[kwill]

Rank your trade partners:

 

Yankees

Pirates

Rockies

Rangers

Astros

 

Pirates

Rockies

Yankees

Astros

Rangers

 

I like the Yankees but they are rebuilding as well. I think they are unwilling to part with Torres and where I think Meadows can be had.