turnin' two Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: Not similar, better. At least in my opinion. Also, what happened to America being the land of opportunity and second chances? He was convicted of a crime and completed the terms of his sentence. Why shouldn't he have the opportunity to try to make a lucrative career for himself? He can, I just hope it isn't with the White Sox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, turnin' two said: He can, I just hope it isn't with the White Sox. Why? The name of the game is finding value. You'll be hard pressed to find better value in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: Why? The name of the game is finding value. You'll be hard pressed to find better value in this draft. I'd personally prefer the White Sox have 0 registered sex offenders in the org, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: Why? The name of the game is finding value. You'll be hard pressed to find better value in this draft. Not everyone is going to feel comfortable cheering for a pedophile. I did not root for Brett Myers (domestic abuse) to have success after the Sox traded for him in 2012. Heimlich deserves the opportunity to pursue a career in major league baseball, but I too hope it is not with the White Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: Why? The name of the game is finding value. You'll be hard pressed to find better value in this draft. Because I think it’s a very bad idea to add someone with that type of baggage into a baseball clubhouse. I think many players would have issues with him and it’s simply not worth the trouble. Despite his value there is a reason most if not all teams are going to pass on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said: I'd personally prefer the White Sox have 0 registered sex offenders in the org, but that's just me. If the White Sox draft Heimlich, they will have 0 registered sex offenders in the org. Just now, maxjusttyped said: Not everyone is going to feel comfortable cheering for a pedophile. I did not root for Brett Myers (domestic abuse) to have success after the Sox traded for him in 2012. Heimlich deserves the opportunity to pursue a career in major league baseball, but I too hope it is not with the White Sox. Heimlich wasn't an adult, so he's not a pedophile. In fact, for the age when he was caught and treated, the recidivism rate is less than 5%. He was likely an abused child himself who didn't know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 56 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: Still bored. Madrigal, please. Madrigal would be a very boring offensive addition, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: Not everyone is going to feel comfortable cheering for a pedophile. I did not root for Brett Myers (domestic abuse) to have success after the Sox traded for him in 2012. Heimlich deserves the opportunity to pursue a career in major league baseball, but I too hope it is not with the White Sox. He deserves a chance to pursue a MLB career, but at the same time front offices deserve the right to not draft players they feel have character flaws or provide risk to their organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, fathom said: Madrigal would be a very boring offensive addition, to be honest. Who’s your top four right now fathom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Yea. I can't get on board with a Heimlich selection. Really wonder which organization is going to take that plunge. Sounds like there are a few interested teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Madrigal would be a very boring offensive addition, to be honest. Disagree, but I see Jose Altuve upside in him, and I know most don't agree with that. That said, Fangraphs grades seem to agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Yea. I can't get on board with a Heimlich selection. Really wonder which organization is going to take that plunge. Sounds like there are a few interested teams. I see no reason not to, but I've always been the type of person who doesn't give a shit what a player does or is like off the field, as long as it won't affect his availability to be on the field, and his issues, which are behind him completely, won't. Getting a #2/#3 upside LHSP in the middle rounds of the draft would be a steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: If the White Sox draft Heimlich, they will have 0 registered sex offenders in the org. Heimlich wasn't an adult, so he's not a pedophile. In fact, for the age when he was caught and treated, the recidivism rate is less than 5%. He was likely an abused child himself who didn't know any better. Dam, you’re trying to be objective here and I can respect that, but most people aren’t going to care about recidivism rates and I think you’re making a bit of a leap assuming he was an abused child himself even if that’s what research & statistics would suggest. The fact is he abused a six year old girl multiple times when he was 16 years old. Whether you think he’s a changed man or not, the vast majority of his teammates and fans will think otherwise or simply will be unable to overlook what he did. I really think you’re asking for trouble adding someone like him and I this draft will be proof of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Dam, you’re trying to be objective here and I can respect that, but most people aren’t going to care about recidivism rates and I think you’re making a bit of a leap assuming he was an abused child himself even if that’s what research & statistics would suggest. The fact is he abused a six year old girl multiple times when he was 16 years old. Whether you think he’s a changed man or not, the vast majority of his teammates and fans will think otherwise or simply will be unable to overlook what he did. I really think you’re asking for trouble adding someone like him and I this draft will be proof of that. It's no bigger of a leap than assuming he's a sexual predator. I honestly think that people are blowing the perceived fan reaction thing out of proportion. There may be an initial backlash, and some people who decide to root against him "on principle", but ultimately most fans root for laundry. The talent is too good to pass on to me, especially if he's sitting there after the first ten rounds. It's going to be hard at that point to find anything more valuable than a LHSP that has #2/#3 upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 A significant part of being a big leaguer is fan outreach and meeting kids. He probably could not get a job as a teacher anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bmags said: A significant part of being a big leaguer is fan outreach and meeting kids. He probably could not get a job as a teacher anywhere. What would prevent him? Maybe the teacher's license, but in states like Indiana, you don't even need one of those anymore. Edited June 2, 2018 by Dam8610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Dam8610 said: What would prevent him? Maybe the teacher's license, but in states like Indiana, you don't even need one of those anymore. A background check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, bmags said: A background check. Which would come back clean. His record has been expunged and sealed because the crime was committed when he was a minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: It's no bigger of a leap than assuming he's a sexual predator. I honestly think that people are blowing the perceived fan reaction thing out of proportion. There may be an initial backlash, and some people who decide to root against him "on principle", but ultimately most fans root for laundry. The talent is too good to pass on to me, especially if he's sitting there after the first ten rounds. It's going to be hard at that point to find anything more valuable than a LHSP that has #2/#3 upside. Then why do you think most organizations will pass on him? Is everyone blowing this out of proportion? Right or wrong, all I know is I’m the father of three young children and I would be unable to cheer or support him. He’s obviously no threat to my children and may be a completely different person, but I’m unable to overlook his actions regardless of the reasons. And I know many others on this board feel the same way. I’m all for second chances in life, but this one area people typically can’t be rational about and I fully admit I’m guilty of that. But I’m less concerned about fan outrage and far more worried about the clubhouse impacts. There will be teammates who will not want this dude around and that’s where problems could arise IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Then why do you think most organizations will pass on him? Is everyone blowing this out of proportion? Right or wrong, all I know is I’m the father of three young children and I would be unable to cheer or support him. He’s obviously no threat to my children and may be a completely different person, but I’m unable to overlook his actions regardless of the reasons. And I know many others on this board feel the same way. I’m all for second chances in life, but this one area people typically can’t be rational about and I fully admit I’m guilty of that. But I’m less concerned about fan outrage and far more worried about the clubhouse impacts. There will be teammates who will not want this dude around and that’s where problems could arise IMO. I think most organizations will pass on him because they're worried about fan backlash. And I think that's overblown. I also have three children. Like you said, he's no threat to my kids, so why would I care? Also, his OSU teammates don't seem to be ostracizing him or having problems with him, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to think he can get along in a clubhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Uh yeah, no thanks on Heimlich. There's nothing anyone can say that can change my mind on that. I don't give a shit if he was underage, he was old enough to know better and that's what matters. I hope he doesn't get drafted and becomes a burger flipper at McDonald's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Tony said: Quite frankly, he also didn’t own up to his actions. If journalists didn’t dig into this and find it, it would have never come out. And that’s not right, and not someone I would want representing my organization. Character counts. The only reason anyone knows is because he forgot to register where he was and it caused a violation, which became public record, but also which he fixed. Besides, do you really expect him to come out and talk about this on his own, especially seeing the way people have reacted to finding out? He likely wanted it in the past where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) To be 100% accurate, Heimlich always maintained his innocence and only plead guilty due to the advice of his attorney. This whole situation became news because of a technicality about whether he had to notify the court of his address. But here is the report during his case: In my opinion its more likely that Heimlich is innocent than guilty, but there is just no way you are going to convince society of this. When someone sees "guilty", they dont care about the circumstances. https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/385703-274945-penalties-paid-heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball Quote In May 2012, Luke's sexual history was obtained via clinical interview and a sexual history polygraph conducted by Rick Minnich, chief examiner of Minnich Polygraph Services of Burien, Washington. Minnich was prohibited from asking any question directly related to Luke's niece. From the report: "It was the opinion of Mr. Minnich that Luke was truthful when he answered 'no' to the following questions: 'Not to include (the niece), have you engaged in sexual conduct with any member of your family?' And, 'Not to include (the niece), have you engaged in sexual contact with anyone else more than two years younger than you?'" Polygraph tests often are used to determine the veracity of suspects or witnesses, and to monitor criminal offenders on probation. Luke and his parents would have welcomed the opportunity for a polygraph asking questions directly related to his niece, but their attorney said polygraph results are inadmissible in Washington court, and he advised against asking Luke specific questions. Edited June 2, 2018 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tony said: Quite frankly, he also didn’t own up to his actions. If journalists didn’t dig into this and find it, it would have never come out. And that’s not right, and not someone I would want representing my organization. Character counts. Own up to what actions? He has always said he was innocent, his lawyer suggested he take a plea deal so that he could move on with his life. Even right now, knowing the facts of the case, most people seem to assume he did it, when all of the facts suggest the contrary. I dont think the Sox should take him for pr reasons, but he did what many reasonable people would have done given the circumstances. Especially as his parents were pressuring him due to an unrelated matter that involved custody of his brothers/sisters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, Tony said: It absolutely does NOT belong in the past when teams are getting ready to commit MILLIONS of dollars into 18-19-20 year old amateur athletes. What if it came out after the draft, and the team and scouts then have to deal with the unexpected backlash, because he went to such great lengths to hide it? Those scouts jobs and reputations could be at stake, all for a guy that molested his niece. Some team wants to draft him? Fine, knock yourself out. I don’t want it to be the Sox. I’m also not going to spend my Saturday coming up with reasons why a child molester should be given a clean slate. Hard pass. This is the exact reason why he had to plead guilty and take the deal. Even though all of the evidence suggests he is innocent, you adamantly say he is a child molester without any fact that supports your conclusion. /shrugs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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