Eaton to Nats/Giolito, Lopez, Dunning to Sox

[Lemon_44]

That WAR is stupid because Jason Heyward was bad.

WAR is used by way too many people as the supreme basis for a player's value. It's a made up stat. I like how Heyman b**** slapped BK over it. WAR is one stat of many that goes into player evaluation. Kevin Millar had an excellent take on WAR as well. Does McCutcheon get downgraded defensively because he's asked to play shallow and a ball gets hit over his head, thus decreasing his defensive WAR? It's all relative. Like Heyman said, Lou Whitaker has a higher WAR than Derek Jeter.

[Quin]

WAR is used by way too many people as the supreme basis for a player's value. It's a made up stat. I like how Heyman b**** slapped BK over it. WAR is one stat of many that goes into player evaluation. Kevin Millar had an excellent take on WAR as well. Does McCutcheon get downgraded defensively because he's asked to play shallow and a ball gets hit over his head, thus decreasing his defensive WAR? It's all relative. Like Heyman said, Lou Whitaker has a higher WAR than Derek Jeter.

 

Well, by fWAR Jeter has a slightly higher WAR than Whitaker by 2.

 

Jeter was hurt by the fact that he had some terrible range on defense.

 

And it's a stat that takes into account damn near everything - it's not made up. It's not the end-all-be-all, but it tells us that the myth of Derek Jeter the amazing defender is false, which is made up by just the eye test.

[bmags]

As long as we ignore history and focus on a single season, you're correct

 

I'm not sure Nats had possibility to acquire Cutch at any age of his career in trade.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Like Heyman said, Lou Whitaker has a higher WAR than Derek Jeter.

 

So what? They have a near identical wRC+ for their career (Jeter 119 to Whitaker 118) and Whitaker was the far superior defensive player. Jeter is obviously a 1st ballot Hall of Famer but the fact of the matter is the guy was a statue on defense and is overrated as f***. Lou Whitaker not being in the Hall of Fame is a travesty.

[GreenSox]

I agree with Cameron, I've been saying the same thing for weeks. Most likely nobody elite, but should be able to get some nice talent for sure.

I would have liked that return mil got for thornberg, but thorn was making league minimum

Edited December 8, 2016 by GreenSox

[whitesoxjr27]

All this makes me so happy. Lighting in a bottle days are finally over. Took long enough.

[lostfan]

The guy who sits next to me at work is a Nats fan and thinks Giolito is going to flame out, will never be more than a 4th starter. idk, I'm inclined to think if that was true, it's less likely to happen with the Sox as it is the Nats, because the Sox as an organization have a very good track record of developing young pitchers both from the farm and in guys they acquired elsewhere.

[Quin]

The guy who sits next to me at work is a Nats fan and thinks Giolito is going to flame out, will never be more than a 4th starter. idk, I'm inclined to think if that was true, it's less likely to happen with the Sox as it is the Nats, because the Sox as an organization have a very good track record of developing young pitchers both from the farm and in guys they acquired elsewhere.

 

Tell him Eaton isn't god in CF like he is RF.

[lostfan]

Tell him Eaton isn't god in CF like he is RF.

I did. He's not sure where Eaton's going to play.

[bmags]

I did. He's not sure where Eaton's going to play.

 

I hope you are open to us directing all of your conversation with this coworker.

 

Ask him if he prefers lostfan or ezio auditore

[SoxAce]

I hope you are open to us directing all of your conversation with this coworker.

 

Ask him if he prefers lostfan or ezio auditore

 

:lolhitting

[iamshack]

Aren't all stats made up?

[bmags]

Aren't all stats made up?

 

Not TWTW.

[StrangeSox]

Aren't all stats made up?

 

aside from pure counting stats like hits, yeah.

[NCsoxfan]

Aren't all stats made up?

 

87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[StrangeSox]

[Quin]

I hope you are open to us directing all of your conversation with this coworker.

 

Ask him if he prefers lostfan or ezio auditore

:lol:

[NCsoxfan]

The guy who sits next to me at work is a Nats fan and thinks Giolito is going to flame out, will never be more than a 4th starter. idk, I'm inclined to think if that was true, it's less likely to happen with the Sox as it is the Nats, because the Sox as an organization have a very good track record of developing young pitchers both from the farm and in guys they acquired elsewhere.

 

That's kind of the beauty of this trade, we don't need Giolito to even become a star to win the trade or break even. With the return we got, and the player that was dealt, I think there's much less risk of taking Giolito (compared to for Sale, etc)

[Dam8610]

That's kind of the beauty of this trade, we don't need Giolito to even become a star to win the trade or break even. With the return we got, and the player that was dealt, I think there's much less risk of taking Giolito (compared to for Sale, etc)

 

With the Sox track record, though, I like his and Lopez's chance of becoming TOR starters now than I did before.

 

[oldsox]

I wish someone in the know would address Giolito's loss of velocity. Probably a good topic for Northsider in some future thread.

[bmags]

I wish someone in the know would address Giolito's loss of velocity. Probably a good topic for Northsider in some future thread.

 

Keith Law touched on an insider piece that Nats messed with his mechanics last year. It is a red flag.

[hi8is]

Hector Santiago turned into Gio/Lopez/Dunning

[Vance Law]

WAR is used by way too many people as the supreme basis for a player's value. It's a made up stat. I like how Heyman b**** slapped BK over it. WAR is one stat of many that goes into player evaluation. Kevin Millar had an excellent take on WAR as well. Does McCutcheon get downgraded defensively because he's asked to play shallow and a ball gets hit over his head, thus decreasing his defensive WAR? It's all relative. Like Heyman said, Lou Whitaker has a higher WAR than Derek Jeter.

 

I heard one of the s***heads on MLB networks saying this, and it looks like you're just throwing it out here.

 

If you don't like WAR, great! Then what statistics are you using instead to gauge defense? And baserunning? And to compare players across positions? And to come up with one comprehensive statistic that incorporates all of the things that a baseball player can do on a spectrum of terribly to spectacularly?

 

Derrick Jeter was an ATROCIOUS defensive shortstop who was good at hitting. You can make the argument "Jeter can play at shortstop because his excellent hitting will offset his terrible defense." But you have to include in there his terrible defense. And WAR does that.

 

McCutchen didn't have bad defensive numbers this season because "a ball went over his head." If in fact Pirates forced him to play shallow and lots and lots of balls went over his head that surely would affect his numbers. And if that were the case, then you could blame it more on the Pirates for having a bad strategy. If it were good strategy/positioning, then all of these tons of singles he was taking away would offset the balls going over his head. This would require a deeper dive into the data. Could be McCutchen just had a down year with the glove. But he's always graded out well defensively before. Was WAR wrong then? And finally, do you know why else his WAR took a big fall? Because he had far and away the worst year of his career at the plate. Shouldn't a stat that gauges a players overall value take a dip when they're actual performance dips?

[Vance Law]

Aren't all stats made up?

 

No. God created gravity, saves, doubles, and sac flies.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

No. God created gravity, saves, doubles, and sac flies.

 

Don't forget about the most important stat he created: the Will to Win!