To those worried about the glutten of pitching prospects

[Chicago White Sox]

Don't forget though, these top 100 rankings still have to be updated. Heard on the radio today that Giolito and Moncada probably drop somewhere to top 15-20. Kopech and Lopez probably move up to that same area. So the Sox could end up being more like the Yankees current rankings where they have 4 players ranked between #15-#22.

No chance in hell Moncada drops that much because of 20 major league at-bats. That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. He'll be top 5 no matter what. I do agree on Giolito though because of a loss of velocity in the 2nd half.

[Dick Allen]

Rizzo probably has a history of making fewer poor trades as any GM . The jump to conclusion he got hosed by a lot in the media and in the game concerns me. I hope he did get hosed, but he seemed very focused on cashing in on Giolito during these meeting. It doesn't mean he won't be burned. People were leery about dealing with Billy Beane and he traded Josh Donaldson for Brett Lawrie.

 

I hope they are looking at packages for their other players that emphasize s postion players. Yeah, it's nice to have all these guys. But one or two or more may bust, or may get hurt. They have had a tough time forever developing hitters. Trade for some another team has done some developing.

[bmags]

Rizzo probably has a history of making fewer poor trades as any GM . The jump to conclusion he got hosed by a lot in the media and in the game concerns me. I hope he did get hosed, but he seemed very focused on cashing in on Giolito during these meeting. It doesn't mean he won't be burned. People were leery about dealing with Billy Beane and he traded Josh Donaldson for Brett Lawrie.

 

I hope they are looking at packages for their other players that emphasize s postion players. Yeah, it's nice to have all these guys. But one or two or more may bust, or may get hurt. They have had a tough time forever developing hitters. Trade for some another team has done some developing.

 

I don't think he got hosed, I just think Hahn got him in the perfect storm where because he did not have enough for Sale and Hahn was in those talks, he created a perfect value benchmark for Eaton.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think he got hosed, I just think Hahn got him in the perfect storm where because he did not have enough for Sale and Hahn was in those talks, he created a perfect value benchmark for Eaton.

The thing is, if Eaton is anywhere near a 5 or 6 WAR player the next 5 seasons, he probably was worth more in trade than Sale for the extra 2 years at the same total cash. Eaton, Q, those guys are undervalued by many, including people whose job it is to know these things. I was watching MLBN and someone was making a case why Eaton is not worth anything near Cutch in trade. That's just being lazy. Rizzo said his analytics people and old school scouting people were the same on Eaton. It's a huge asset to give up. I hope it works out. Hahn is going to see all his bargain basement team friendly deals go to other teams this off season. I doubt he has much luck having 3 or 4 of those types of contracts on one roster again.

 

 

BTW, why do the call them the Winter Meetings when it isn't technically Winter?

[lostfan]

BTW, why do the call them the Winter Meetings when it isn't technically Winter?

I guess because "Fall" is for the playoffs and World Series, and everyone considers December a winter month even though it's technically fall for 2/3 of it.

[Dick Allen]

I guess because "Fall" is for the playoffs and World Series, and everyone considers December a winter month even though it's technically fall for 2/3 of it.

And most of Spring Training is not during the Spring.

[bmags]

The thing is, if Eaton is anywhere near a 5 or 6 WAR player the next 5 seasons, he probably was worth more in trade than Sale for the extra 2 years at the same total cash. Eaton, Q, those guys are undervalued by many, including people whose job it is to know these things. I was watching MLBN and someone was making a case why Eaton is not worth anything near Cutch in trade. That's just being lazy. Rizzo said his analytics people and old school scouting people were the same on Eaton. It's a huge asset to give up. I hope it works out. Hahn is going to see all his bargain basement team friendly deals go to other teams this off season. I doubt he has much luck having 3 or 4 of those types of contracts on one roster again.

 

 

BTW, why do the call them the Winter Meetings when it isn't technically Winter?

 

I agree. Frankly Sox got less for Eaton then many here hypothesized, but then immediately declared fleecing.

 

But people just aren't used to seeing these types of prospects moved because Eaton/Sales/Quintanas only move when they have a deal left. It's crazy.

[lostfan]

And most of Spring Training is not during the Spring.

"Winter training" just sounds funny

[StrangeSox]

I don't understand anyone's anger at the direction we are taking. We are finally doing something with a distinct plan. It finally appears we aren't half assing something. To look at the 2017 roster and throw your arms in the air is just absurd at this point in time. They actually are doing something with a plan. None of us know if it will work, but at least they have a concrete plan that they are operating towards vs. these half ass cockamamie schemes.

 

Some would have said the Cubs had too many talents at one position and they used some of them at other positions and have used others as surplus to move for other pieces to fill needs. None of us can have a crystal ball and look at what this roster is going to look like in 2019...sure some of the pieces are here, but some we think are great, wont' pan out, others we aren't thinking of might...new parts will come on...and other trades will be made.

 

Either way, we are still in the midst of our off-season. For god sake, some of the most anti front office people on the planet (on this site) are actually on board and excited. I was skeptical after the Sale deal, but confidence grew significantly after the Eaton move. Now they better not blow that confidence and they better be willing to be patient. No idea if this will work (we could get all busts and there is luck to all of these equations, but the strategic thoughts and direction make absolute sense). Positions don't mean jack right now...top talent means everything and it isn't like we have 10 starting pitchers or something. We have very few and some of these people will bust (whether guys we got today or guys we look at that the club has drafted and brought along). We couldn't trade two front line pitchers, without filling those needs plus getting positional talent. After the next couple of trades, that should all come together even more clear and we should see an exceptional mix of pitching and positional talent.

 

But if the Dodgers were to dangle an Urias for Q, I don't give a s*** that he's a pitcher, if I'm RH I'm making that deal. I can always flip these guys later on or make other moves. In isolation, I still don't like the Sale deal (I don't hate it either..just believe that ultimately we should have been able to get a 3rd above average piece) but I have nothing but kudos for today's deal which was a provided us with a plethora of high upside talent for one player.

 

Now I'm curious to see what we do next and to be honest, I don't love the idea of just a Bregman based deal (as I do think we need a few more deals more like the Nats deal...I'd like another 3 high caliber guys like that (2 position and 1 pitcher would be ideal) for Q (which I actually think is fair since Q has a bit higher surplus then Eaton (and Q is really about the only thing like this on the market now and FA market is awful). IF we can do that, we will be in an excellent position heading into moves for Robertson / Jones / Abreu / Frazier / Melky.

 

very solid post

 

[StrangeSox]

I guess because "Fall" is for the playoffs and World Series, and everyone considers December a winter month even though it's technically fall for 2/3 of it.

 

Meteorological and Astronomical seasons run differently!

 

http://www.weatherdudes.com/facts_display.php?fact_id=30

 

The Difference Between Meteorological Winter and Astronomical Winter

Meteorological winter is a three month period that runs from Dec 1st to the end of February. It is the coldest three month period of the year in the northern hemisphere. Astronomical winter is what we all refer to when we talk about the winter season and this is based on when the sun reaches the most southern point on the globe, the Tropic of Capricorn. If you are located right on the Tropic of Capricorn at 12:00 noon on the first day of astronomical winter, the sun will be directly overhead. Also, on the first day of astronomical winter, the sun is at its lowest point in our sky at 12:00 noon and, of course, it is the shortest day of the year. Obviously, it is the first day of the summer season in the southern hemisphere.

[steveno89]

The thing is, if Eaton is anywhere near a 5 or 6 WAR player the next 5 seasons, he probably was worth more in trade than Sale for the extra 2 years at the same total cash. Eaton, Q, those guys are undervalued by many, including people whose job it is to know these things. I was watching MLBN and someone was making a case why Eaton is not worth anything near Cutch in trade. That's just being lazy. Rizzo said his analytics people and old school scouting people were the same on Eaton. It's a huge asset to give up. I hope it works out. Hahn is going to see all his bargain basement team friendly deals go to other teams this off season. I doubt he has much luck having 3 or 4 of those types of contracts on one roster again.

 

 

BTW, why do the call them the Winter Meetings when it isn't technically Winter?

 

Our "bargain basement" team friendly deals go away, yes. But our payroll is going to be next to nothing after we deal Robertson, Frazier, Melky, Quintana, etc.

 

We will be entering an amazing free agent class with loads of money to spend on talent. Most of our players will be cost controlled giving us great flexibility for when we are ready to compete again

[Dick Allen]

Our "bargain basement" team friendly deals go away, yes. But our payroll is going to be next to nothing after we deal Robertson, Frazier, Melky, Quintana, etc.

 

We will be entering an amazing free agent class with loads of money to spend on talent. Most of our players will be cost controlled giving us great flexibility for when we are ready to compete again

I hope it goes that smoothly.

[tray]

A Quintana deal will almost certainly bring back position players.

 

I was referring to "elite" position players, perhaps those rated in the top 25 players in the minors. The Sox need position players that can hit the ball, excite the fan base, and put fannies in the seats.

One of Trea Turner, Bregman or Benintendi could very well be worth more than all of the pitching prospects they just acquired. And that is why they are the untouchables.

 

Ask most casual Sox fans for the names of the guys that the Sox just acquired for Sale and Eaton. Most will only recall one name - Moncada.

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I was referring to "elite" position players, perhaps those rated in the top 25 players in the minors. The Sox need position players that can hit the ball, excite the fan base, and put fannies in the seats.

One of Trea Turner, Bregman or Benintendi could very well be worth more than all of the pitching prospects they just acquired. And that is why they are the untouchables.

 

Ask most casual Sox fans for the names of the guys that the Sox just acquired for Sale and Eaton. Most will only recall one name - Moncada.

For years, even before KW was the GM, the Sox focused more on pitching in the draft than hitters. I remember one year they actually contemplated taking only pitchers. The thought was they develop pitching, they could acquire hitting. As we have seen recently, that is not the case. Offense, despite playing in a bandbox has been horrid. Eaton-gone, Frazier-gone, in a couple years if not sooner-Abreu gone, Melky-gone. They haven't been able to trade for much offense over the years. They need to focus on that with their remaining trade chips.

[heirdog]

Curious to know if Tim anderson was prospect eligible right now, where would he rank in top 100?

[BigHurt3515]

Curious to know if Tim anderson was prospect eligible right now, where would he rank in top 100?

 

Top 30

He was 45 to start the year according to BA

Edited December 8, 2016 by BigHurt3515

[Dick Allen]

Curious to know if Tim anderson was prospect eligible right now, where would he rank in top 100?

If you want to see something unreal, look at Anderson's splits ahead in the count and behind in the count. Someone should beat that in his head all winter. If he ever gets somewhat patient, there is no telling how good he could be.

[lostfan]

If you want to see something unreal, look at Anderson's splits ahead in the count and behind in the count. Someone should beat that in his head all winter. If he ever gets somewhat patient, there is no telling how good he could be.

Yeah, it's like at times it seemed like he was trying to prove a point that he belonged in the majors and he was trying to keep hitting the ball, like he is one of those Cubans or Dominicans who never take walks. He doesn't need to do that.

[Soxfest]

I don't understand anyone's anger at the direction we are taking. We are finally doing something with a distinct plan. It finally appears we aren't half assing something. To look at the 2017 roster and throw your arms in the air is just absurd at this point in time. They actually are doing something with a plan. None of us know if it will work, but at least they have a concrete plan that they are operating towards vs. these half ass cockamamie schemes.

 

Some would have said the Cubs had too many talents at one position and they used some of them at other positions and have used others as surplus to move for other pieces to fill needs. None of us can have a crystal ball and look at what this roster is going to look like in 2019...sure some of the pieces are here, but some we think are great, wont' pan out, others we aren't thinking of might...new parts will come on...and other trades will be made.

 

Either way, we are still in the midst of our off-season. For god sake, some of the most anti front office people on the planet (on this site) are actually on board and excited. I was skeptical after the Sale deal, but confidence grew significantly after the Eaton move. Now they better not blow that confidence and they better be willing to be patient. No idea if this will work (we could get all busts and there is luck to all of these equations, but the strategic thoughts and direction make absolute sense). Positions don't mean jack right now...top talent means everything and it isn't like we have 10 starting pitchers or something. We have very few and some of these people will bust (whether guys we got today or guys we look at that the club has drafted and brought along). We couldn't trade two front line pitchers, without filling those needs plus getting positional talent. After the next couple of trades, that should all come together even more clear and we should see an exceptional mix of pitching and positional talent.

 

But if the Dodgers were to dangle an Urias for Q, I don't give a s*** that he's a pitcher, if I'm RH I'm making that deal. I can always flip these guys later on or make other moves. In isolation, I still don't like the Sale deal (I don't hate it either..just believe that ultimately we should have been able to get a 3rd above average piece) but I have nothing but kudos for today's deal which was a provided us with a plethora of high upside talent for one player.

 

Now I'm curious to see what we do next and to be honest, I don't love the idea of just a Bregman based deal (as I do think we need a few more deals more like the Nats deal...I'd like another 3 high caliber guys like that (2 position and 1 pitcher would be ideal) for Q (which I actually think is fair since Q has a bit higher surplus then Eaton (and Q is really about the only thing like this on the market now and FA market is awful). IF we can do that, we will be in an excellent position heading into moves for Robertson / Jones / Abreu / Frazier / Melky.

Excellent post I agree

[peppers312]

Chisoxfn hit the nail on the head.

 

i can't wait to see what the 2017/2018 team payroll is going to be!

[steveno89]

Curious to know if Tim anderson was prospect eligible right now, where would he rank in top 100?

 

His defense was arguably the most impressive thing in his 99 games at the mlb level posting a 1.2 DWAR

 

Putting up 2.8 WAR overall in 99 games wwe would be looking at roughly a 4.2 WAR over a full season if he kept it up...a fringe all star

 

Hypothetically I would say top 30 for sure, maybe even top 20 given the quality mlb performance. If he can develop a bit more patience at the plate he could be special

[beautox]

Anderson as a hitter screams Starling Marte to me.

[Dam8610]

Anderson as a hitter screams Starling Marte to me.

 

I'd take that level of production.

[Donaldo]

I don't understand anyone's anger at the direction we are taking. We are finally doing something with a distinct plan. It finally appears we aren't half assing something. To look at the 2017 roster and throw your arms in the air is just absurd at this point in time. They actually are doing something with a plan. None of us know if it will work, but at least they have a concrete plan that they are operating towards vs. these half ass cockamamie schemes.

 

I LOVE what I've seen this past week. However, this team desperately needs quality position players.