Don't stop now boys

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I realize there is still a lot of time left in the offseason but would you be upset if the White Sox made no further trades beyond the two Drake Laroche "troublemakers" in Sale and Eaton?

 

I was all for giving it another run in 2017 but now that the White Sox have unloaded their two best players, I would be very upset if they went into Opening Day with Frazier, Robertson, Melky, etc. still on the roster. That would certainly feel more like a retool (albeit significant retool) than a rebuild. Until a few more vets are traded, particularly ones that are well liked by management, I don't have complete trust in management to commit to a full rebuild. Hopefully they will alleviate this fear over the next few weeks.

[GGajewski18]

Melky stays with the Sox until the deadline I think. Depending on what happens with Turner, I think Frazier could be traded this off season or at the deadline. Robertson for sure should be traded before the season.

[Bob Sacamano]

Melky stays with the Sox until the deadline I think. Depending on what happens with Turner, I think Frazier could be traded this off season or at the deadline. Robertson for sure should be traded before the season.

 

Does anyone besides the Dodgers even have interest in Turner?

[hi8is]

Would I be upset? Absolutely not!

 

Quintana will hold just as much if not more value at the deadline or next winter. Robertson is a candidate to rebuild his value and may also extract more during the deadline.

 

Most of our other assets are of the same type.

 

When the right deal comes along - one by one, they'll all be moved.

[bmags]

Was debating making a thread on this subject, but I disagree with premise.

 

But here is Olney on subject:

http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-olney/insider/post?id=15322

 

and Lindbergh on his podcast was saying he thinks sox could stop now and maybe even compete this year.

 

I ... disagree.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Was debating making a thread on this subject, but I disagree with premise.

 

But here is Olney on subject:

http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-olney/insider/post?id=15322

 

and Lindbergh on his podcast was saying he thinks sox could stop now and maybe even compete this year.

 

I ... disagree.

That's my biggest fear at this point. Via trade this offseason, they have removed 2 players from last year's roster but then added back 3 (assuming Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all break with the OD roster). Call me skeptical of this FO, but I won't be convinced this is a full rebuild until they deal at least 2 other lesser vets or 1 high profile vet like Q or Abreu.

[southsider2k5]

That's my biggest fear at this point. Via trade this offseason, they have removed 2 players from last year's roster but then added back 3 (assuming Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all break with the OD roster). Call me skeptical of this FO, but I won't be convinced this is a full rebuild until they deal at least 2 other lesser vets or 1 high profile vet like Q or Abreu.

 

According to Hahn, all are ticketed for the minors, which makes sense in giving an extra year of control if you want until like June.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

According to Hahn, all are ticketed for the minors, which makes sense in giving an extra year of control if you want until like June.

Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

[southsider2k5]

Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

 

It is all about service time. As long as all of them spend longer in the minors than they were up last year their service time won't equal a full year, which means the Sox own them for another season. There are 183 days in a season. By CBA a seasons worth of service is 172 days or more on the major league roster. Just as an example, if Moncada had 30 days last year, if he serves less than 142 on the major league roster this year, he doesn't hit 172 and he won't have a full year's worth of credit. No idea how much time he actually spent on the roster, so the exact number could vary. If he ends with 170 days, that is less than a year, so the team maintains his rights for another full season.

[jenksycat]

Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

 

They all start in the minors for at least 5-6 weeks to gain an extra year of control. None of them are close to a year of service time.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

 

You don't accrue service time in the minors. He needs to have 172 days service time to consider it a full year. A player needs to have 6 full years in before he can become a free agent. He currently has 31 days service time. If they hold him down roughly 6 weeks or so he will be unable to accrue 172 days total by the end of the year. That will give the Sox a 7th year with him.

[hi8is]

Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

Service time clocks aren't continuously linear. If they hold him in AAA until late May or June, he'll be controlled until 2023 I believe.

[kwill]

Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

 

 

There is no way they put Giolito or Lopez in the opening day rotation. This is why you pick up 2 veteran starters to get smashed around the park.Ivan Nova, Derek Holland, and Tyson Ross all make sense to give 1/1 deals to if they are willing to accept.

[lasttriptotulsa]

No idea how much time he actually spent on the roster, so the exact number could vary. If he ends with 170 days, that is less than a year, so the team maintains his rights for another full season.

 

Current service time per Baseball Reference

 

Moncada - 31 days

Giolito - 39 days

Lopez - 44 days

 

If my math skills and calendar reading skills are correct they can be called up on the following dates without reaching 172 days

 

Moncada - May 15

Giolito - May 23

Lopez - May 28

 

Looks like a 3 way tie for the AL ROY to me.

Edited December 9, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

There is no way they put Giolito or Lopez in the opening day rotation. This is why you pick up 2 veteran starters to get smashed around the park.Ivan Nova, Derek Holland, and Tyson Ross all make sense to give 1/1 deals to if they are willing to accept.

I hope you all are right. I have this fear that they think they can still compete by having those 3 start with the team on opening day. If the plan truly is to start all 3 in the minors, it's even more reason to move Frazier, melky, and Robertson now in my opinion. The current market conditions seem very favorable to moving those guys this offseason as soon as Jansen and Turner sign. Plus that frees up money to sign some cheap vets to plug holes with warm bodies.

[Bob Sacamano]

Who is beating out Giolito and Lopez for the #4 and #5 SP spots? Shields and Fulmer? Also, didn't Boston already start Moncada's clock last season? If so, what's the gain to starting him in the minors?

 

Fulmer should also start the season in the minors. Rotation will look something like (without Q trade): Q, Rodon, Gonzalez, Shields, filler starter. But they could also likely deal one of Gonzalez or Q.

[KMule2545]

I hope you all are right. I have this fear that they think they can still compete by having those 3 start with the team on opening day. If the plan truly is to start all 3 in the minors, it's even more reason to move Frazier, melky, and Robertson now in my opinion. The current market conditions seem very favorable to moving those guys this offseason as soon as Jansen and Turner sign. Plus that frees up money to sign some cheap vets to plug holes with warm bodies.

 

Check out Hahn's most recent quotes. He mentions that there will be some bumps in the road and pain as well as expecting to compete within the next 5 years. His rhetoric mixed with the recent moves leads me to believe they are going for an everything-must-go rebuild.

 

[steveno89]

Check out Hahn's most recent quotes. He mentions that there will be some bumps in the road and pain as well as expecting to compete within the next 5 years. His rhetoric mixed with the recent moves leads me to believe they are going for an everything-must-go rebuild.

 

100% each of those players should and will be kept in the minors to gain an additional season of control

 

This is a full rebuild, but it takes two (or more) teams to tango so to speak

 

Trades happen because teams have to want the White Sox players and also be willing to give up certain talent. Right now we need to understand that it might take awhile for the market on Q, Robertson, Abreu, Jones, Melky, Frazier, etc. to come to them for a deal

[ChiSox59]

It is all about service time. As long as all of them spend longer in the minors than they were up last year their service time won't equal a full year, which means the Sox own them for another season. There are 183 days in a season. By CBA a seasons worth of service is 172 days or more on the major league roster. Just as an example, if Moncada had 30 days last year, if he serves less than 142 on the major league roster this year, he doesn't hit 172 and he won't have a full year's worth of credit. No idea how much time he actually spent on the roster, so the exact number could vary. If he ends with 170 days, that is less than a year, so the team maintains his rights for another full season.

 

I am pretty confident the Sox will do this with Giolito, Lopez and Moncada. Hahn has already said all will start at AAA, so I think that is pretty clear.

[harfman77]

I think they can stop now and get just as much if not more for their remaining trade assets in July.

 

The groundwork has been laid with multiple teams so it really shouldn't take very much to get deals done once the teams can come together on the value of the prospects in the deal.

 

At this point, I think it makes a lot more sense to hang on to Robertson through the first half to rebuild value after his knee surgery. His walk rate was up and HR's, but I feel that was because he was physically adjusting to his injury. I feel like he will be the premier late inning option available once Jansen is signed. I think Colome will be moved fairly shortly as the Rays want to move him at peak value.

 

Melky is a professional hitter and will fill a gap for some team making a playoff run, Frazier is going to have value as teams identify their weaknesses as the season progresses. There are not many openings right now at 3B for contending teams, so as the season plays out his value will likely increase.

 

Q's value doesn't change between now and July unless he absolutely is a wreck the first half. The likely top two starters on the market this summer will be Greinke and Q, so I think Q's value will make him the target more in demand.

 

Abreu is the one piece that still could get moved over the winter. The Mariners, Astros, Rangers, Rockies, Pirates, Yankees, Blue Jays, and Orioles could all be in the market once Trumbo and EE are signed.

[GGajewski18]

Fulmer should also start the season in the minors. Rotation will look something like (without Q trade): Q, Rodon, Gonzalez, Shields, filler starter. But they could also likely deal one of Gonzalez or Q.

 

Agreed. If we do trade Q, I could see signing guys like Derek Holland, Trevor Cahill, and letting Dylan Covey start.

[Hatchetman]

so what have we got in center, May? Engel?

[GGajewski18]

so what have we got in center, May? Engel?

 

Engel and Tilson probably lead the way so far.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I hope you all are right. I have this fear that they think they can still compete by having those 3 start with the team on opening day. If the plan truly is to start all 3 in the minors, it's even more reason to move Frazier, melky, and Robertson now in my opinion. The current market conditions seem very favorable to moving those guys this offseason as soon as Jansen and Turner sign. Plus that frees up money to sign some cheap vets to plug holes with warm bodies.

 

 

I expect the rotation to be Rodon, Gonzalez, Shields, and 2 free agent fliers. I'm pretty confident after hearing Hahn that Fulmer, Lopez, and Giolito will all start at Charlotte.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I think they can stop now and get just as much if not more for their remaining trade assets in July.

 

The groundwork has been laid with multiple teams so it really shouldn't take very much to get deals done once the teams can come together on the value of the prospects in the deal.

 

At this point, I think it makes a lot more sense to hang on to Robertson through the first half to rebuild value after his knee surgery. His walk rate was up and HR's, but I feel that was because he was physically adjusting to his injury. I feel like he will be the premier late inning option available once Jansen is signed. I think Colome will be moved fairly shortly as the Rays want to move him at peak value.

 

Melky is a professional hitter and will fill a gap for some team making a playoff run, Frazier is going to have value as teams identify their weaknesses as the season progresses. There are not many openings right now at 3B for contending teams, so as the season plays out his value will likely increase.

 

Q's value doesn't change between now and July unless he absolutely is a wreck the first half. The likely top two starters on the market this summer will be Greinke and Q, so I think Q's value will make him the target more in demand.

 

Abreu is the one piece that still could get moved over the winter. The Mariners, Astros, Rangers, Rockies, Pirates, Yankees, Blue Jays, and Orioles could all be in the market once Trumbo and EE are signed.

Don't they almost have to move Q now too? I know people always feared a Sale injury but if they hold on to Q and he gets injured that simply destroys the entire rebuild plan. The other trade chips are unlikely to bring back half of what Q would and the Sox are in desperate need of position player prospects, especially ones who's timeframe lines up with the window of the new young core.