All-In?? (joking)

[HeGone7]

I dont think its a coincidence that the only 2 players who have been moved so far are "Drake" fans. Well see how this all goes, but there is definitely a chance that the "rebuild" was being used to distract from the real agenda, getting rid of the outspoken "Drake" fans.

 

I agree. Makes me uneasy if true.

[FT35]

The White Sox aren't forfeiting any draft picks. They want to trade everyone. How is this still not clear for people? If Rick Hahn had it his way, he would have made 4 more trades right now. They want to be terrible this year. And they should be.

 

I think it's clear that they are doing something--and we all think we know what that is (rebuild), but until some other pieces drop, their actual plan is still a little unclear. So far, Sale and Eaton are gone and a massive prospect return has been secured. We should judge by the confirmed reports, not the speculation. Do they really want to trade everyone? Or did they get back more than they anticipated by dealing 2 guys who were not happy and decide to rethink/redefine the course of action? This organization is notorious for the "hybrid" solution to team construction so for those of us who have been life-long Sox fans--those thoughts are still in the back of our minds.

 

Still think Quintana, Abreu and Jones tell the story because they are happy, productive, affordable and controllable. A hybrid rebuild is on the table as a possibility until the happy, productive, affordable and controllable players get moved. Robertson, Melky and Frazier could go but only because of lost production or expiring contracts, but those are the types of decisions every team makes each off season--but not necessarily indicative of a FULL, 'trade everyone' for prospects rebuild.

Edited December 15, 2016 by FT35

[shipps]

The White Sox aren't forfeiting any draft picks. They want to trade everyone. How is this still not clear for people? If Rick Hahn had it his way, he would have made 4 more trades right now. They want to be terrible this year. And they should be.

 

During down time ST minds wander into strange thoughts, much like a typical persons brain wanders throughout the day. Like today when I was staring at the bamboo plant on my desk and I was thinking if maybe it will grow to be like 6 feet tall. I have no idea if this is scientifically possible considering its in my office. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but for damn sure I know that it isn't likely.

[Balta1701]

I think it's clear that they are doing something--and we all think we know what that is (rebuild), but until some other pieces drop, their actual plan is still a little unclear. So far, Sale and Eaton are gone and a massive prospect return has been secured. We should judge by the confirmed reports, not the speculation. Do they really want to trade everyone? Or did they get back more than they anticipated by dealing 2 guys who were not happy and decide to rethink/redefine the course of action? This organization is notorious for the "hybrid" solution to team construction so for those of us who have been life-long Sox fans--those thoughts are still in the back of our minds.

 

Still think Quintana, Abreu and Jones tell the story because they are happy, productive, affordable and controllable. A hybrid rebuild is on the table as a possibility until the happy, productive, affordable and controllable players get moved. Robertson, Melky and Frazier could go but only because of lost production or expiring contracts, but those are the types of decisions every team makes each off season--but not necessarily indicative of a FULL, 'trade everyone' for prospects rebuild.

The basic problem with Quintana being on that list is playing time.

 

Like it or not, if you count Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, and Fulmer - right there you have 5 starting pitchers, at least 4 of whom should be in your rotation at some point next year, and if they're not it's a failure of development because 4 of them have already made big league appearances. Add in Gonzalez and Holland, and the fact that like it or not Shields has to get some starts to see if he can salvage his career, and there simply isn't enough room for what we already have in the organization.

 

You can wait on Quintana to the trade deadline and that's a way of keeping some guys in AAA longer, but we need 3 rotation slots available this year and more in 2018, and you're not going to pitch a 6 man rotation unless rosters expand. Someone has to go.

[southsider2k5]

I dont think its a coincidence that the only 2 players who have been moved so far are "Drake" fans. Well see how this all goes, but there is definitely a chance that the "rebuild" was being used to distract from the real agenda, getting rid of the outspoken "Drake" fans.

 

If you look at what they asked for from Houston for Q, they are perfectly willing to trade him, and he had zero to do with that mess. This isn't just to do with Drake LaRoche.

[FT35]

If you look at what they asked for from Houston for Q, they are perfectly willing to trade him, and he had zero to do with that mess. This isn't just to do with Drake LaRoche.

 

That is a good point. I do think they will listen. I don't think this is exclusively about the Drake issue...as much as it could be those 2 guys were disgruntled--and just one example was how they responded to the Drake issue--then the jersey issue, then the playing time issue and so on. Clubhouse unrest in general coming from 2-perceived "leaders," maybe? It could have been frequent enough to consider moving them for a tall premium to rebuild their all but vacant farm system.

[Soxbadger]

If you look at what they asked for from Houston for Q, they are perfectly willing to trade him, and he had zero to do with that mess. This isn't just to do with Drake LaRoche.

 

I have no doubt that theyll listen to anything.

 

But when you think "rebuild", you dont usually see teams holding out on trading guys like Frazier/Robertson for "perfect" deals. You usually see those guys get traded for whatever value you can get.

 

(edit)

 

And again, my post was more about "if no one else gets traded." There is still a long time to go before that becomes a reality.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

I have no doubt that theyll listen to anything.

 

But when you think "rebuild", you dont usually see teams holding out on trading guys like Frazier/Robertson for "perfect" deals. You usually see those guys get traded for whatever value you can get.

 

(edit)

 

And again, my post was more about "if no one else gets traded." There is still a long time to go before that becomes a reality.

 

As we saw at the deadline, there is a difference between listening and asking. At the deadline they asked for both Betts and Benitendi. Then they put together a realistic deal for Chris Sale. The package that is being discussed with Houston for Q falls into the realistic category, maybe even light.

[Soxbadger]

As we saw at the deadline, there is a difference between listening and asking. At the deadline they asked for both Betts and Benitendi. Then they put together a realistic deal for Chris Sale. The package that is being discussed with Houston for Q falls into the realistic category, maybe even light.

 

Im not talking about Q. They can rebuild and keep Q, those arent mutually exclusive. Im talking about guys like Frazier, Robertson, Cabrera, Shields. If its a real rebuild, those guys should be gone as soon as you get any respectable offer.

[Balta1701]

Im not talking about Q. They can rebuild and keep Q, those arent mutually exclusive. Im talking about guys like Frazier, Robertson, Cabrera, Shields. If its a real rebuild, those guys should be gone as soon as you get any respectable offer.

Rebuilding and keeping Q was not inconsistent until they took back multiple pitchers from Washington. That made it so. Like it or not, they have to have room appear for those pitchers to get their shots in the big leagues, and that's going to require moving one starter out of Quintana and Rodon out of the way in the next year-ish, unless something really bad happens to someone.

[southsider2k5]

Im not talking about Q. They can rebuild and keep Q, those arent mutually exclusive. Im talking about guys like Frazier, Robertson, Cabrera, Shields. If its a real rebuild, those guys should be gone as soon as you get any respectable offer.

 

That's just it, I haven't heard anything about a respectable offer for those guys. Have you?

[Soxbadger]

That's just it, I haven't heard anything about a respectable offer for those guys. Have you?

 

Im not a GM so I couldnt possibly have first hand knowledge of any offer or non offer.

 

Everything is entirely speculation. Which is why the entire post (which people keep somehow misinterpreting) was based on "Well see how this all goes, but there is definitely a chance that the "rebuild" was being used to distract from the real agenda."

 

Notice the word "chance".

[Chicago White Sox]

Im not a GM so I couldnt possibly have first hand knowledge of any offer or non offer.

 

Everything is entirely speculation. Which is why the entire post (which people keep somehow misinterpreting) was based on "Well see how this all goes, but there is definitely a chance that the "rebuild" was being used to distract from the real agenda."

 

Notice the word "chance".

No GM is going to pretend he's rebuilding in order to move players he has personal issues with. The whole notion is ridiculous.

[ChiSox59]

The basic problem with Quintana being on that list is playing time.

 

Like it or not, if you count Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, and Fulmer - right there you have 5 starting pitchers, at least 4 of whom should be in your rotation at some point next year, and if they're not it's a failure of development because 4 of them have already made big league appearances. Add in Gonzalez and Holland, and the fact that like it or not Shields has to get some starts to see if he can salvage his career, and there simply isn't enough room for what we already have in the organization.

 

You can wait on Quintana to the trade deadline and that's a way of keeping some guys in AAA longer, but we need 3 rotation slots available this year and more in 2018, and you're not going to pitch a 6 man rotation unless rosters expand. Someone has to go.

 

These things have a way of sorting themselves out. Plus, I see almost no scenario that Giolito, Lopez or Fulmer make a start prior to June 1. They don't need rotation spots going into the year. Kopech will spent the vast majority of the season in the minors. Best case he gets a September call up, or is pitching so well Sox have no choice but to promote him.

 

[southsider2k5]

No GM is going to pretend he's rebuilding in order to move players he has personal issues with. The whole notion is ridiculous.

 

Totally this. The premise that there is ANY chance this is a vindictive rebuild is Trump-esque.

[KMule2545]

This s*** is getting ridiculous. It's like 1/3rd of Sox fans want to be an under .500 team for the next 15 years. THEY'RE REBUILDING. Get over it already and stop making these threads and posts already. Read the damn GM and owner's comments the past 2 weeks.

[caulfield12]

If there were a ton of legit (internal) prospects being blocked, that would be ONE thing.

 

We're talking guys like Engel, Coats, Tilson, May, Trey M. (and he's not ready), Davidson, Sanchez, Saladino, Narvaez, etc.

Or Liriano, for that matter.

 

Out of that whole ENTIRE group, we'd be lucky to get one everyday player with a 2.5-3.5 WAR.

Edited December 16, 2016 by caulfield12

[FT35]

This s*** is getting ridiculous. It's like 1/3rd of Sox fans want to be an under .500 team for the next 15 years. THEY'RE REBUILDING. Get over it already and stop making these threads and posts already. Read the damn GM and owner's comments the past 2 weeks.

 

I just don't know...I've been burned before by trusting everything I hear...shoot, we were all convinced Sale was going to Washington--then things changed in a heartbeat. Our GM and owners comments only show what they are thinking at that moment...they are free to change course and HAVE in the past. All we're saying is that it's possible that they got more than they thought for Sale and Eaton and modified their course of action. The landscape of the organization is DRASTICALLY different than it was before those deals happened. It's realistic to think that there is some reevaluation happening--and a different course of action is being discussed. The thread wouldn't exist if there wasn't a little speculation that this could be the case. If nothing else, it's an interesting theory that many have enjoyed discussing. That's the point of these boards--(over analyze the crap out of our team!) try to think of everything...it's impossible for 1 person to be right about everything along the way--unless you're the great Dick Allen. No one posting in this thread would be the least bit surprised if Q, Abreu and or Jones were dealt, but until it happens...it's an interesting thought to think the plan has changed.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I just don't know...I've been burned before by trusting everything I hear...shoot, we were all convinced Sale was going to Washington--then things changed in a heartbeat. Our GM and owners comments only show what they are thinking at that moment...they are free to change course and HAVE in the past. All we're saying is that it's possible that they got more than they thought for Sale and Eaton and modified their course of action. The landscape of the organization is DRASTICALLY different than it was before those deals happened. It's realistic to think that there is some reevaluation happening--and a different course of action is being discussed. The thread wouldn't exist if there wasn't a little speculation that this could be the case. If nothing else, it's an interesting theory that many have enjoyed discussing. That's the point of these boards--(over analyze the crap out of our team!) try to think of everything...it's impossible for 1 person to be right about everything along the way--unless you're the great Dick Allen. No one posting in this thread would be the least bit surprised if Q, Abreu and or Jones were dealt, but until it happens...it's an interesting thought to think the plan has changed.

 

 

This thread is a dumpster fire. It's not interesting. This website is much, much dumber than it used to be. Used to be my favorite place to go. Now I dread reading many of the threads. It's sad actually.

[FT35]

This thread is a dumpster fire. It's not interesting. This website is much, much dumber than it used to be. Used to be my favorite place to go. Now I dread reading many of the threads. It's sad actually.

 

It's all good...you're not required to participate in it? There are other threads that may be more interesting? To each their own! You must have a lot of faith in our FO to assume everything they say is truth!

[Leonard Zelig]

This thread is a dumpster fire. It's not interesting. This website is much, much dumber than it used to be. Used to be my favorite place to go. Now I dread reading many of the threads. It's sad actually.

Absolutely agree. I feel like it really started going to s*** around Thanksgiving 2008.

[shipps]

Absolutely agree. I feel like it really started going to s*** around Thanksgiving 2008.

 

I see what you did theeeeeeeeeeeeere....

[BRIRO2017]

Absolutely agree. I feel like it really started going to s*** around Thanksgiving 2008.

Well he's right about the thread. Completely retarded.

[Soxbadger]

How dare anyone on this website post something as a "devil's advocate" just to promote some discussion besides for the inanely boring "I saw this rumor on twitter."

 

Maybe that was exciting back when the Sox were going to trade for Nomar, but I think that was the last time I got caught up in the "speculation hype train."

 

So lets go back to what makes this forum great:

 

"I saw some random guy on twitter say that X is going to happen!!!!!!!"

[Dick Allen]

How dare anyone on this website post something as a "devil's advocate" just to promote some discussion besides for the inanely boring "I saw this rumor on twitter."

 

Maybe that was exciting back when the Sox were going to trade for Nomar, but I think that was the last time I got caught up in the "speculation hype train."

 

So lets go back to what makes this forum great:

 

"I saw some random guy on twitter say that X is going to happen!!!!!!!"

 

Yeah, Drake LaRoche conspiracy threads are far more compelling.