TheFutureIsNear Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:41 PM) Cool gif of Collins working behind the plate. Maybe a framing exercise? https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/819267851043438592 Definitely a very cool inside look. It's a drill to teach him to catch the ball while moving his hand as little as possible. So yeah, would play a big role in framing. We saw our catchers move enough pitches outside of the strike zone last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:55 PM) Scott Merkin @scottmerkin 22m22 minutes ago Todd Steverson on Zack Collins: "That looks like a nice No. 1 pick for us," Somewhat related: I was coincidentally watching video today on several of our prospects (YouTube has some cool stuff on many of our guys), and I was absolutely awe-struck how many zillion times better Moncada looked than Collins while hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:46 PM) I believe framing is a real stat unlike some, but I do wonder if it gets to a point where an umpire will see a catcher always posting good framing numbers, and start to use it against him. They are human. I am sure they see these lists. If Tyler Flowers always gets balls called strikes, couldn't it eventually lead to an umpire calling what he considers borderline pitches thrown to him balls because they figured his framing has given them an illusion? This is probably true, but I think that bad receivers will be able to turn borderline strikes into balls LONG after good receivers have lost the ability to turn balls into strikes. I wouldn't look at the Collins exercise as "framing practice" as much as I'd look at it as "quiet hands" practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 07:49 PM) Somewhat related: I was coincidentally watching video today on several of our prospects (YouTube has some cool stuff on many of our guys), and I was absolutely awe-struck how many zillion times better Moncada looked than Collins while hitting. Is this more of a compliment for Moncada or a warning about Collins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 06:25 AM) Is this more of a compliment for Moncada or a warning about Collins? Collins is not a guy who will bat .300 consistently, but he knows how to draw walks and his patience will allow him to post very good OBP #'s overall He also has above average power potential. If he can stick at catcher he could be really valuable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 07:25 AM) Is this more of a compliment for Moncada or a warning about Collins? It's both, I guess, depending on the context. Maybe just an observation that Moncada is simply in a totally different class than anyone we have been used to evaluating in the FS era. Different precedent. I guess it also means that putting Collins on the "slow track" may be just as good for his bat as it is for his glove, especially if Moncada (as a point of comparison) isn't necessarily MLB ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:02 AM) Collins is not a guy who will bat .300 consistently, but he knows how to draw walks and his patience will allow him to post very good OBP #'s overall He also has above average power potential. If he can stick at catcher he could be really valuable Yeah, he could very well hit something like .260 with an OBP around .390 and 30 dingers. Moncada might be more of a .295 hitter with an OBP around .370 and 20 dingers. I guess it's kind of preference as to which of those statlines you'd prefer to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 02:58 AM) Yeah, he could very well hit something like .260 with an OBP around .390 and 30 dingers. Moncada might be more of a .295 hitter with an OBP around .370 and 20 dingers. I guess it's kind of preference as to which of those statlines you'd prefer to have. At catcher and 2b?! Give me either statline and non butcher defense and you'll have a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 03:30 AM) At catcher and 2b?! Give me either statline and non butcher defense and you'll have a star. Now imagine if we get Meadows and he hits his ceiling 3 monsters who play positions not requiring insane offense. So fun to daydream about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I think framing is a legit skill, but I'm not sure that the stat is that accurate. I suspect that there are a lot of other variables that haven't been isolated from framing. SABRE Defensive stats have been around a lot longer and they are still lacking,imo. It may take a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 08:43 AM) I think framing is a legit skill, but I'm not sure that the stat is that accurate. I suspect that there are a lot of other variables that haven't been isolated from framing. SABRE Defensive stats have been around a lot longer and they are still lacking,imo. It may take a while. I don't know, read how BP calculates it. For one, the main reason this became a thing was a technology update (pitch F/X) but then they've even been able to make interesting retro models for it. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=25514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 09:22 AM) I don't know, read how BP calculates it. For one, the main reason this became a thing was a technology update (pitch F/X) but then they've even been able to make interesting retro models for it. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=25514 They can take it all away and use technology to call balls and strikes. MLBN had a thing where Eric Byrnes called a game, I think it was an independent league, behind the plate. They set it up and had someone watch the box on a monitor and told him in an earpiece if the pitch was a ball or a strike. Not one complaint for batter or pitcher or catcher. Seems pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 09:26 AM) They can take it all away and use technology to call balls and strikes. MLBN had a thing where Eric Byrnes called a game, I think it was an independent league, behind the plate. They set it up and had someone watch the box on a monitor and told him in an earpiece if the pitch was a ball or a strike. Not one complaint for batter or pitcher or catcher. Seems pretty simple. I'm totally fine with robot umpires but did want to note some recent pieces showing that the distance between bad and good pitch framers is tightening so the good news is so long as we don't sign Dioner Navarro, soon teams will adjust so even if you have a bad pitch framer it will be no where near as bad as having the worst pitch framer 4-5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 12:58 AM) Yeah, he could very well hit something like .260 with an OBP around .390 and 30 dingers. Moncada might be more of a .295 hitter with an OBP around .370 and 20 dingers. I guess it's kind of preference as to which of those statlines you'd prefer to have. 5 players in baseball put up a .390 or better OBP last year and only 3 of those hit 30 homers. I would guess closer to Brian McCann numbers if he hits his peak, and more mid to late career McCann than early career McCann, .250/.340/.460, something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 11:14 AM) 5 players in baseball put up a .390 or better OBP last year and only 3 of those hit 30 homers. I would guess closer to Brian McCann numbers if he hits his peak, and more mid to late career McCann than early career McCann, .250/.340/.460, something like that. If he hits over 20 homers and can stick behind the plate, I take those numbers all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) If he hits over 20 homers and can stick behind the plate, I take those numbers all day. Yes, that is a 2-4 WAR player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 I feel like Catcher war is often lower due to games played, is that an accurate statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) I feel like Catcher war is often lower due to games played, is that an accurate statement? Probably. Maybe it's adjusted? I'll admit that I have no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) I feel like Catcher war is often lower due to games played, is that an accurate statement? League wide, yes, it's a fairly accurate statement, which is why having a durable, strong receiver is incredibly valuable. There were only 24 catchers in all of baseball last year who ended up with more than 300 plate appearances. Oh, and on a per game basis, Dioner Navarro was the worst catcher among those who qualified for that, but you already knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) I feel like Catcher war is often lower due to games played, is that an accurate statement? Just by way of comparison, Johnny Bench (maybe the best?) totaled 70 WAR in his 12 prime seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) Just by way of comparison, Johnny Bench (maybe the best?) totaled 70 WAR in his 12 prime seasons. So an average of 5.83 WAR per season. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien PODCAST: Zack Collins on hitting, catching in majors (says he's ready) & Cubs fans calling him a Schwarber wanna be. If Collins sticks at catcher, wouldn't Schwarber be a Collins wanna be? Oh well, that cracked me up when I read it so I thought I would share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 I recommend Garfein's podcast if you are starved for sox news. Garfein is pretty entertaining outside of a studio setting and he does a good job putting together interesting people for the podcast outside of expected regulars like hayes/merkin/etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Mariners DFAd Jesus sucre who is not good offensively but I feel like has a pretty good framing rep. Could be a good minor league deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Mariners DFAd Jesus sucre who is not good offensively but I feel like has a pretty good framing rep. Could be a good minor league deal Oh yeah gimme some sugar. This seems like a no-brainer for a camp invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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