Sox eyeing FA sluggers

[Balta1701]

If it were up to me guys like Lawrie and Avi wouldn't be on the team and we'd take a shot on guys who have the potential to have real value...but that's obviously not going to happen unfortunately. And let's not forget that Abreu can always DH more with plenty of AB's between the rest of the IF positions. Not like Lawrie and Saladino are the type of guys that need to be played everyday, we kinda know what they are already.

 

But yeah I agree, Saunders will most likely find a multi year deal somewhere better than with us next year.

I have no issue with Avi getting a good portion of the season this year - he's cheaper than these guys and probably has just as much of a chance at becoming a decent hitter as Pedro Alvarez does of becoming worth something at the deadline. Lawrie's problem is he only has 1 year of control, which means even if he got off to a great start he'd be nothing but a quick, cheap deadline deal.

 

Saladino I have no idea what he will be long term and I want him playing every day. If he's an average MLB player (2 WAR, strong defense, weak to average bat) that's a useful find and I would be content with him playing 3b for a couple years until we find something better.

[chitownsportsfan]

Saladino better be trotted out there for 500+ PA this year or I'm going to be pissed. I'm still not convinced he's not a 2-3 WAR starter at 3B. He should have played more last year after they were out of it in July as usual.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I have no issue with Avi getting a good portion of the season this year - he's cheaper than these guys and probably has just as much of a chance at becoming a decent hitter as Pedro Alvarez does of becoming worth something at the deadline. Lawrie's problem is he only has 1 year of control, which means even if he got off to a great start he'd be nothing but a quick, cheap deadline deal.

 

Saladino I have no idea what he will be long term and I want him playing every day. If he's an average MLB player (2 WAR, strong defense, weak to average bat) that's a useful find and I would be content with him playing 3b for a couple years until we find something better.

 

Lol what world do you live in? Avi can't put up a .700 OPS and he has just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who just put up an OPS over .800? Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware Alvarez is pretty crappy, but Avi doesn't even belong in the majors. Sorry, but 1,500 AB's is more than enough time to prove your worth. And Avi has proven nothing more than worthless.

[Balta1701]

Saladino better be trotted out there for 500+ PA this year or I'm going to be pissed. I'm still not convinced he's not a 2-3 WAR starter at 3B. He should have played more last year after they were out of it in July as usual.

It sure seems like a lot of the answer to why this didn't happen is injury-related, hence why I keep including that caveat in my statements about playing him.

[Balta1701]

Lol what world do you live in? Avi can't put up a .700 OPS and he has just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who just put up an OPS over .800? Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware Alvarez is pretty crappy, but Avi doesn't even belong in the majors. Sorry, but 1,500 AB's is more than enough time to prove your worth. And Avi has proven nothing more than worthless.

That's not what I said. I said Avi has as good of a chance of being a decent hitter as Alvarez does of being worth something at the deadline. If Pedro Alvarez remains who he was last year - an .800 OPS because he is strong against righties and a .670 OPS hitter against lefties - a platoon DH who is a crappy fielder and only puts up an .825 OPS because he is playing 90% of his time against righties and is still owed a couple million dollars isn't worth jack squat at the deadline. For him to be worth something at the deadline, he'd need to have a good year against lefties, a better year defensively, or put up a 1.000+ OPS against righties. All of those are possible but unlikely.

[TheFutureIsNear]

That's not what I said. I said Avi has as good of a chance of being a decent hitter as Alvarez does of being worth something at the deadline. If Pedro Alvarez remains who he was last year - an .800 OPS because he is strong against righties and a .670 OPS hitter against lefties - a platoon DH who is a crappy fielder and only puts up an .825 OPS because he is playing 90% of his time against righties and is still owed a couple million dollars isn't worth jack squat at the deadline. For him to be worth something at the deadline, he'd need to have a good year against lefties, a better year defensively, or put up a 1.000+ OPS against righties. All of those are possible but unlikely.

 

I think you're overthinking it, teams trade for platoon guys and bench pieces at the deadline all the time. I'm not saying we could trade Alvarez for much, but if a team needs a power surge at the deadline we could get a couple of prospects for him if he's still hitting righties well and carrying the same .800 OPS. Even if we could get just a young UTL bench guy or a good bullpen arm under control for 6 years for him I'd consider it a win. Guys like Chris Coghlan, Aaron Hill, Brandon Guyer, Melvin Upton, and Kelly Johnson all got traded for something at the deadline this past year. I'd take the odds that Alvarez could be traded for an interesting bullpen arm and a loto ticket 19 year old then Avi putting up a .750+ OPS.

I just think little moves like this type and always churning the roster are necessary in a full rebuild. No need to keep watching the same guys fail, throw as many pieces at the wall as possible and see what sticks.

[Balta1701]

I think you're overthinking it, teams trade for platoon guys and bench pieces at the deadline all the time. I'm not saying we could trade Alvarez for much, but if a team needs a power surge at the deadline we could get a couple of prospects for him if he's still hitting righties well and carrying the same .800 OPS. Even if we could get just a young UTL bench guy or a good bullpen arm under control for 6 years for him I'd consider it a win. Guys like Chris Coghlan, Aaron Hill, Brandon Guyer, Melvin Upton, and Kelly Johnson all got traded for something at the deadline this past year. I'd take the odds that Alvarez could be traded for an interesting bullpen arm and a loto ticket 19 year old then Avi putting up a .750+ OPS.

I just think little moves like this type and always churning the roster are necessary in a full rebuild. No need to keep watching the same guys fail, throw as many pieces at the wall as possible and see what sticks.

Unfortunately, Avi Garcia is a guy who this organization has control of. Our job now is to watch guys this organization has control of fail - until one of them succeeds, they develop someone better at that position, or they develop enough other good people at other positions where that glaring weakness becomes important. Avi is, unfortunately, exactly the kind of guy we need to be targeting right now, whether we like it or not.

 

And I have no issue with signing Pedro Alvarez. Just be clear about what he is. He's a dime a dozen player. Aaron Hill, for one check, was traded for a 27 year old with an ERA over 6, a 20 year old in high A with an OPS of .516, and the Red Sox sent along cash while they were at it. I don't consider those type of trades to be bringing back anything of value and that's what Alvarez would bring back. The odds of Garcia being a solid MLB hitter at age 25 are similar to the odds of Alvarez bringing back anything better than that.

 

We should still sign a DH like Alvarez and we should still trade Frazier and Cabrera for whatever garbage we can get for them. That should leave us playing guys in the OF who have some talent but who have busted elsewhere and can be had for cheap, because 1 out of every several hundred of them might turn into Jose Bautista and when there's no downside we may as well play as many of them as we could. Like it or not, Avi Garcia is an example of one of those guys. You can't let "I'm sick of watching him on my team" impact that decision. He is more than likely to fail miserably, but he is under our control already. Play him for another year then check out where you are next offseason. Worst case scenario he fails miserably again and the White Sox are rebuilding in 2018. Guess what...the White Sox are a rebuilding team in 2018.

[caulfield12]

Coats/Engel/Liriano/May...there's no compelling argument (yet) for any of them being everyday MLB players.

 

Those are the ones who would potentially be blocking Avi (or vice-versa), along with Matt Davidson potentially getting some at-bats at DH.

 

IMO, Engel and Liriano deserve a shot at least, especially if Engel can shore up the defense. It's easy to imagine some combination of Tilson/Engel (maybe Rasmus) and Liriano at some point as the Sox OF over the next 9 months.

 

 

With Tilson's hammy and Saladino's back, we simply don't exactly how long they can hold up until March, at the earliest.

[Heads22]

Well, this is a great year to figure out if any of them can help.

 

Either way, I maintain Tyler Saladino is a guy that good teams have. Not necessarily starting, but he's a guy that can be on the 25 man of a WS team.

[credezcrew24]

Unfortunately, Avi Garcia is a guy who this organization has control of. Our job now is to watch guys this organization has control of fail - until one of them succeeds, they develop someone better at that position, or they develop enough other good people at other positions where that glaring weakness becomes important. Avi is, unfortunately, exactly the kind of guy we need to be targeting right now, whether we like it or not.

 

And I have no issue with signing Pedro Alvarez. Just be clear about what he is. He's a dime a dozen player. Aaron Hill, for one check, was traded for a 27 year old with an ERA over 6, a 20 year old in high A with an OPS of .516, and the Red Sox sent along cash while they were at it. I don't consider those type of trades to be bringing back anything of value and that's what Alvarez would bring back. The odds of Garcia being a solid MLB hitter at age 25 are similar to the odds of Alvarez bringing back anything better than that.

 

We should still sign a DH like Alvarez and we should still trade Frazier and Cabrera for whatever garbage we can get for them. That should leave us playing guys in the OF who have some talent but who have busted elsewhere and can be had for cheap, because 1 out of every several hundred of them might turn into Jose Bautista and when there's no downside we may as well play as many of them as we could. Like it or not, Avi Garcia is an example of one of those guys. You can't let "I'm sick of watching him on my team" impact that decision. He is more than likely to fail miserably, but he is under our control already. Play him for another year then check out where you are next offseason. Worst case scenario he fails miserably again and the White Sox are rebuilding in 2018. Guess what...the White Sox are a rebuilding team in 2018.

 

The problem is we've seen Avi fail miserably. Excluding Melky for the sake of comparison: at this point the the off season I'd take Tilson in center with Coats and Liriano manning the corners and getting the vast majority of the at-bats.

 

 

[Balta1701]

The problem is we've seen Avi fail miserably. Excluding Melky for the sake of comparison: at this point the the off season I'd take Tilson in center with Coats and Liriano manning the corners and getting the vast majority of the at-bats.

That we are tired of watching a guy and frustrated with a guy does not change the calculation.

[credezcrew24]

That we are tired of watching a guy and frustrated with a guy does not change the calculation.

 

I agree I just think you erroneously value Avi higher than I do. You say you want to see the Sox develop someone better at the position. I assume "develop" and "acquire" are interchangeable considering a trade for a prospect or waiver claim as was the case with Tilson and Liriano. I think Tilson, Liriano, and Coats deserve the chance to show they can succeed in Chicago. Avi has had that chance.

[caulfield12]

Does anyone want to put statistical odds on Coats, Liriano, Engel or Jacob May being on a major league roster at the start of the 2020 season?

 

The main benefit of them playing is the POSSIBILITY that just one of them is a 4th outfielder on a good team, like Saladino being a supersub/utility guy on a playoff-caliber squad.

 

I'd take driving down the White Sox record into the 60's win total from the low 70's if it means not having to watch Avi Garcia for another full season. That said, the odds seem HIGH that they would continue with Garcia for more than 2-3 months if he's still in that 675-725 OPS range (due to his obvious defensive limitations).

 

At that time (late June/July), you'd have playing time to give to the guys previously mentioned, as well as Davidson and anyone acquired via trade for some of our other veterans.

 

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

Does anyone want to put statistical odds on Coats, Liriano, Engel or Jacob May being on a major league roster at the start of the 2020 season?

 

The main benefit of them playing is the POSSIBILITY that just one of them is a 4th outfielder on a good team, like Saladino being a supersub/utility guy on a playoff-caliber squad.

 

I'd take driving down the White Sox record into the 60's win total from the low 70's if it means not having to watch Avi Garcia for another full season. That said, the odds seem HIGH that they would continue with Garcia for more than 2-3 months if he's still in that 675-725 OPS range (due to his obvious defensive limitations).

 

At that time (late June/July), you'd have playing time to give to the guys previously mentioned, as well as Davidson and anyone acquired via trade for some of our other veterans.

 

Engel I think has a shot to be on a roster as a 4th OF'er...fast bench guy with defense and some pop. Drew Stubbs type career maybe?

 

Liriano I suppose has always had the talent to be a regular, just hasn't put it together yet. Not great odds of making it, but there is hope. No better time than after a change of scenery to a rebuilding team to give him 500 AB's and see what happens in my opinion.

 

Coats and May? Very little chance of being on a roster in 2020.

[GreenSox]

The Sox have plenty of guys already that they can work on flipping in July: the entire bullpen, Gonzalez, Lawrie, Melky, etc.

Adding another guy will just be a distraction from the primary goal of figuring out which among the Saladinos, Tilsons etc are keepers going forward.

They have a hard enough time making July trades as it is, and they should have an ample inventory should they decide to get serious in July trades this year.

[Dick Allen]

The Sox have plenty of guys already that they can work on flipping in July: the entire bullpen, Gonzalez, Lawrie, Melky, etc.

Adding another guy will just be a distraction from the primary goal of figuring out which among the Saladinos, Tilsons etc are keepers going forward.

They have a hard enough time making July trades as it is, and they should have an ample inventory should they decide to get serious in July trades this year.

For the love of God, you don't always need to play for a full year to figure out if a guy can play or not. If there is a guy who can put up some numbers and perhaps get them a player at the deadling, it sure beats Coats beating you on the head in July showing he can't play full time at the major league level.

 

I'm pretty sure the Sox have a decent idea whether or not they can play right now. It's sort of why certain prospects are targeted and they just don't take 10 random guys for their assets.

[Kyyle23]

For the love of God, you don't always need to play for a full year to figure out if a guy can play or not. If there is a guy who can put up some numbers and perhaps get them a player at the deadling, it sure beats Coats beating you on the head in July showing he can't play full time at the major league level.

 

I'm pretty sure the Sox have a decent idea whether or not they can play right now. It's sort of why certain prospects are targeted and they just don't take 10 random guys for their assets.

 

Dont you understand that every post must contain a shot at hahn and williams, even when they do exactly what you have been whining about for years? Come on DA, GET WITH THE ANTI HERO

 

This rebuild is obviously so confusing for the front office they dont need more guys to flip its just too much to think about

[southsider2k5]

Does anyone want to put statistical odds on Coats, Liriano, Engel or Jacob May being on a major league roster at the start of the 2020 season?

 

The main benefit of them playing is the POSSIBILITY that just one of them is a 4th outfielder on a good team, like Saladino being a supersub/utility guy on a playoff-caliber squad.

 

I'd take driving down the White Sox record into the 60's win total from the low 70's if it means not having to watch Avi Garcia for another full season. That said, the odds seem HIGH that they would continue with Garcia for more than 2-3 months if he's still in that 675-725 OPS range (due to his obvious defensive limitations).

 

At that time (late June/July), you'd have playing time to give to the guys previously mentioned, as well as Davidson and anyone acquired via trade for some of our other veterans.

 

0

[GreenSox]

Dont you understand that every post must contain a shot at hahn and williams, even when they do exactly what you have been whining about for years? Come on DA, GET WITH THE ANTI HERO

 

This rebuild is obviously so confusing for the front office they dont need more guys to flip its just too much to think about

 

Adding a veteran "slugger" would be doing more of exactly what I've been "whining" about for years.

Sorry if I don't share you and Dick's love of declining veterans, crowding out young players and its inevitable result: 78 win baseball.

 

Sell of a few more this winter and then they can add to the inventory.

Edited December 29, 2016 by GreenSox

[Kyyle23]

Adding a veteran "slugger" would be doing more of exactly what I've been "whining" about for years.

Sorry if I don't share you and Dick's love of declining veterans, crowding out young players and its inevitable result: 78 win baseball.

 

Sell of a few more this winter and then they can add to the inventory.

 

 

no, adding a one year sign and flip at the deadline player is your constant whine, you know how you love to bring that Cubs front office doing that. Instead you choose to view it as HAHN AND KENNY RAWWWR THEY SIGNING DECLINING HEROS RAAAWR LET ME REPEAT MY SAME COMPLAINT EVEN AS THEY APPEAR TO FINALLY BE DOING WHAT I WANTED EVERYONE GROUPTHINKS BUT ME RAAAWR

 

This team isnt winning 78 games next season, and whatever hero they choose to sign isnt going to change that. Love how you think more players to deal at the deadline is too much to handle though. Solid analysis

[bmags]

I'd prefer one of the outfielders like Saunders or Rasmus over a moss/carter/morneau. Offers more versatility to trade.

 

But they may come at a 8 million price. I imagine we'll want to trade Robertson to be able to sign one of those.

[Eminor3rd]

Whatever leftover DH gets a one-year deal with the Sox will not be a barrier to ANYONE's playing time. If hell freezes over and Avi learns baseball, he'll get plenty of ABs