2017 Democratic Thread

[StrangeSox]

Last week, ProPublica bought dozens of rental housing ads on Facebook, but asked that *they not be shown to* certain categories of users such as:

-African Americans

-people interested in wheelchair ramps

-Jews

 

The ads were approved. https://t.co/Yz6qEI81B8

— Adriana Gallardo (@otraletra) November 21, 2017

 

[bmags]

Anyway, this weekend solidified that Pelosi needs to indicate she would not seek majority leader if a dem congress is elected. I'm sure her willingness to protect members is what helped make her more effective, but with Conyers it is wrong and frankly dangerous. Not only should his behavior have come to light, but clearly from all involved his mind is not up to the job anymore. Let alone a top committee lead.

[Balta1701]

Anyway, this weekend solidified that Pelosi needs to indicate she would not seek majority leader if a dem congress is elected. I'm sure her willingness to protect members is what helped make her more effective, but with Conyers it is wrong and frankly dangerous. Not only should his behavior have come to light, but clearly from all involved his mind is not up to the job anymore. Let alone a top committee lead.

So, you realize that it took like 2 hours of her finishing up her work for him to depart from a top committee lead?

 

Stop and think about how it would seem to some people if out of 435 Congresspeople, 1 of them has their sexual assault records selectively leaked and then that person is immediately pushed out...and that person just happens to be a long serving African American.

 

This weekend is exactly why she's a good leader. Took one on the chin on Sunday morning show while simultaneously getting necessary work finished.

[bmags]

So, you realize that it took like 2 hours of her finishing up her work for him to depart from a top committee lead?

 

Stop and think about how it would seem to some people if out of 435 Congresspeople, 1 of them has their sexual assault records selectively leaked and then that person is immediately pushed out...and that person just happens to be a long serving African American.

 

This weekend is exactly why she's a good leader. Took one on the chin on Sunday morning show while simultaneously getting necessary work finished.

 

She doesn't have the cache to take things on the chin anymore. Her reputation, which won't change, is that of someone protecting dem party establishment from losing power within. There will be a whole lot of excitement to get new people and ideas into the party in 2018, and how much of that support feels that Pelosi still speaks for them?

 

Aside from that, her basic inability to message correctly is a problem. There are plenty of better answers to be given that could provide time to allow leaders to gently push Conyers out of chair lead, her answer was a deflection and a defense.

 

As for precedent, she does not need to call for resignation but removing powerful committees to those with evidence like this is appropriate while calling for greater transparency to other settlements.

 

Plenty of options, plenty of better ways out.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

I appreciate Pelosi for the good work she did 2006-2010 and how well she's held the Democrats in the House together so far this year, but I'm ready for another leader.

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, the GOP explanation for the VA races this year was "of course the DC suburbs broke against Trump/GOP." That doesn't explain why the Richmond suburbs did, too.

Why a historically conservative county in Virginia is making national Republicans nervous

 

[bmags]

I appreciate Pelosi for the good work she did 2006-2010 and how well she's held the Democrats in the House together so far this year, but I'm ready for another leader.

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, the GOP explanation for the VA races this year was "of course the DC suburbs broke against Trump/GOP." That doesn't explain why the Richmond suburbs did, too.

Why a historically conservative county in Virginia is making national Republicans nervous

 

Regardless of slowness of senate, the 2008-2010 congress was incredibly prolific and effective and produced a much better health care bill, immigration bill AND environmental bill. I'll never forget that. But it's time.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I am confused of why Conyers' race here is of any relevance here. With Moore, Franken, Clinton and others the sexual deviance/pedophilia/misconduct/assault is taken for what it is. With Conyers' it's different? What am I missing here?

When there aren't that many representatives who have served a community, and historically the nation has found a great number of excuses to single out and target that community, you should at least be very cautious in how you treat them.

 

Conyers's case IS different. Conyers's case has been revealed by selective targeting using confidential records the likes of which we have not seen for the rest of the House. Someone with access to House of Representatives discipline records picked 1 representative out of 435 potential targets to bring down. There are probably several dozen other offenders in those files who weren't targeted. The person targeted just happens to be from a historically underrepresented group, of the sort who has been targeted many times. At the very least, some delicacy is in order. Why is this person being targeted? Why not others? Who has access to that information?

[NorthSideSox72]

When there aren't that many representatives who have served a community, and historically the nation has found a great number of excuses to single out and target that community, you should at least be very cautious in how you treat them.

 

Conyers's case IS different. Conyers's case has been revealed by selective targeting using confidential records the likes of which we have not seen for the rest of the House. Someone with access to House of Representatives discipline records picked 1 representative out of 435 potential targets to bring down. There are probably several dozen other offenders in those files who weren't targeted. The person targeted just happens to be from a historically underrepresented group, of the sort who has been targeted many times. At the very least, some delicacy is in order. Why is this person being targeted? Why not others? Who has access to that information?

That's a pile of crap. If he did wrong, he did wrong.

 

Now if you ALSO want to see how it is that his records came out but not others, hey, feel free. But that should not stop us from going after this particular person who seems to have done wrong, just because they belong to a certain group.

 

And of course it's also true that maybe he DIDN'T do wrong, but similar things can be said about all those other people to varying extents. So again, his group identity isn't relevant.

 

[Balta1701]

That's a pile of crap. If he did wrong, he did wrong.

 

Now if you ALSO want to see how it is that his records came out but not others, hey, feel free. But that should not stop us from going after this particular person who seems to have done wrong, just because they belong to a certain group.

 

And of course it's also true that maybe he DIDN'T do wrong, but similar things can be said about all those other people to varying extents. So again, his group identity isn't relevant.

I did not say he should not be removed. I said that some delicacy should be in order in the process. I don't think that's a "pile of crap".

[NorthSideSox72]

I did not say he should not be removed. I said that some delicacy should be in order in the process. I don't think that's a "pile of crap".

I don't think any more delicacy should be used with him than for anyone else.

 

I can see an argument saying that everyone in a similar position, like say him and Franken, should be given some level of deference. I can at least understand that argument. I just don't see any validity in treating Conyers differently than others due to his race.

 

[Quin]

Gonna agree with Matt here.

 

Also, in other news, James O'Keefe is back at it, this time trying to bait The Washington Post.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigatio...m=.090eb96d0ada

[bmags]

Granted, I do think establishing (transparent!) process for handling claims is important to protect in terms of removal of sitting congressman/woman, but no such process needs to be kept for keeping them as chairs of a committee.

[StrangeSox]

Gonna agree with Matt here.

 

Also, in other news, James O'Keefe is back at it, this time trying to bait The Washington Post.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigatio...m=.090eb96d0ada

 

Ha, came here to post this.

 

How is O'Keefe so bad at this, and how does anyone ever fall for it? They must genuinely think that the MSM operates the same way they do, with little or no ethics or actual journalistic integrity.

 

 

A woman who falsely claimed to The Washington Post that Roy Moore, the Republican U.S. Senate candidate in Alabama, impregnated her as a teenager appears to work with an organization that uses deceptive tactics to secretly record conversations in an effort to embarrass its targets.

 

In a series of interviews over two weeks, the woman shared a dramatic story about an alleged sexual relationship with Moore in 1992 that led to an abortion when she was 15. During the interviews, she repeatedly pressed Post reporters to give their opinions on the effects that her claims could have on Moore’s candidacy if she went public.

 

The Post did not publish an article based on her unsubstantiated account. When Post reporters confronted her with inconsistencies in her story and an Internet posting that raised doubts about her motivations, she insisted that she was not working with any organization that targets journalists.

 

But on Monday morning, Post reporters saw her walking into the New York offices of Project Veritas, an organization that targets the mainstream news media and left-leaning groups. The organization sets up undercover “stings” that involve using false cover stories and covert video recordings meant to expose what the group says is media bias.

 

Again, Phillips had arrived early and was waiting for McCrummen, her purse resting on the table. When McCrummen put her purse near Phillips’s purse to block a possible camera, Phillips moved hers.

 

The Post videographers sat separately, unnoticed, at an adjacent table.

 

Phillips said she didn’t want to get into the details of what she had said happened between her and Moore.

 

She said she wanted McCrummen to assure her that the article would result in Moore’s defeat, according to a recording. McCrummen instead asked her about her story regarding Moore.

 

Phillips complained that President Trump had endorsed Moore.

 

“So my whole things is, like, I want him to be completely taken out of the race . . . ” she said. “And I really expected that was going to happen, and now it’s not. So, I don’t know what you think about that.”

 

McCrummen asked Phillips to verify her identity with a photo identification. Phillips provided a Georgia driver’s license.

 

McCrummen then asked her about the GoFundMe page.

 

“We have a process of doing background, checking backgrounds and this kind of thing, so I wanted to ask you about one thing,” McCrummen said, pulling out a copy of the page and reading from it. “So I just wanted to ask you if you could explain this, and I also wanted to let you know, Jaime, that this is being recorded and video recorded.”

 

“Okay,” Phillips said. “Um, yeah, I was looking to take a job last summer in New York, but it fell through,” Phillips said. “Yeah, it was going to be with the Daily Caller, but it ended up falling through, so I wasn’t able to do it.”

 

When asked who at the Daily Caller interviewed her, Phillips said, “Kathy,” pausing before adding the last name, “Johnson.”

 

Paul Conner, executive editor of the Daily Caller, said Monday that no one with the name Kathy Johnson works for the publication and that he has no record of having personally interviewed Phillips. Conner later said in email that he had asked other top editors at the Daily Caller and the affiliated Daily Caller News Foundation about Phillips.

 

“None of us has interviewed a woman by the name Jaime Phillips,” Conner wrote.

 

At the Alexandria restaurant on Wednesday, Phillips also told The Post that she had not been in contact with the Moore campaign. As the interview ended, Phillips told McCrummen she was not recording the conversation.

 

“I think I probably just want to cancel and not go through with it at this point,” Phillips said at Souvlaki Bar shortly before ending the interview.

 

“I’m not going to answer any more questions,” she said. “I think I’m just going to go.”

 

She picked up her coat and bag, returned her drink to the front counter and left the restaurant.

 

By 7 p.m. the message on the GoFundMe page was gone, replaced by a new one.

 

“Campaign is complete and no longer active,” it read.

[StrangeSox]

a woman taking a job to blatantly lie to reporters in an attempt to kill a politically damaging story about the child molester and soon-to-be-Senator:

 

“I’m moving to New York!” the May 29 appeal said. “I’ve accepted a job to work in the conservative media movement to combat the lies and deceipt of the liberal MSM. I’ll be using my skills as a researcher and fact-checker to help our movement. I was laid off from my mortgage job a few months ago and came across the opportunity to change my career path.”

 

it's always projection with these people. if anything, this should help demonstrate how real journalists actually vet stories and that this isn't some sort of political attack on Moore but the result of real, competent reporting on legitimate allegations.

Edited November 27, 2017 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

Exactly. Treating people differently due to race is inequality by definition. I am for equality. Whether Conyers is black white or Polynesian, he should be held accountable for his actions. Same goes for Moore, Franken or whoever. There should be on standard for all.

 

And Balta, black people are historically underrepresented. We live in the present though. We currently have the most diverse congress in the history of the states.

 

Black people are ~12% of the country. About ~11% of the house is black at a time where the house is majority Republican. Given that black people vote democratic ~95% of the time and in turn, rarely have a candidate on one side of the ticket (I believe there is only one black rep in the HOR) it seems like they're more represented than what could be reasonably expected. That's not even considering the majority of our black population lives in metropolitan areas and the southeast. Not to mention, we have ridiculously slow turnover in Congress and all of the old, white reps from the past generation are still clicking along. In 20 years, I'd bet black people are over represented in congress.

 

I am all for waiting until there is proof someone is actually guilty of whatever they are accused before putting them out to roast. That is especially important in our social media age. However, it seems Conyers is taking accountability for his actions. Affording him special treatment for his transgressions on account of his race is a scary road to go down.

See, I'm of the opposite perspective - treating people who have historically been treated as lesser the same way is a way to avoid dealing with the history of oppression. I cannot blame anyone else in that caucus for viewing an attack on one of them as an attack on all of them because they have had that history. If you don't deal with that history and account for it, then in my view you are still failing to account for the damage done by past issues.

 

In other words - trust is earned, and the Black Caucus should not trust that they're going to be treated fairly until it is demonstrated that they are every time. They're going to go out on the streets that night and have to worry about not being treated fairly. They're going to go home and worry about their families not being treated fairly. Justly so. So treat their members fairly. Let them have the time to sit down with the minority leader, discuss their issues and their reaction to what has been presented, and then take action after making sure to build their support.

[StrangeSox]

[caulfield12]

The reverse of this is why do Trump and Roy Moore get a free pass with large segments of their political base when the likes of Franken and Conyers are automatically expected to resign?

 

And yet I've seen members here arguing there's absolutely ZERO differences between Republicans and Democrats on this issue, in other words, it's nearly a "universal" problem.

 

If that's the case, wouldn't the resignations of Franken and Conyers then theoretically provide the Dems the right to say they're the party who cares more about protecting the rights of women in these situations?

 

I'm not sure if it's so much skin color (that's part of the political calculation, and based on the poor turnout among African-Americans in the 2016 presidential election)...as the fact that Conyers has been in Congress for so long, so there's this seniority/tenure idea that's also in play.

 

The problem with that is we can't turn around and say a Conyers can get away with something that a much less experienced (non-committee chair, etc.) representative can't get away with...that's not exactly right, either.

 

I'm trying to imagine if this was Representative John Lewis facing allegations instead...would it be fair to treat him with even more "delicacy" than Conyers, because of his iconic/legendary status in the party and the Civil Rights Movement? Is it likely that's exactly what would happen, though?

 

And what of the "general suspicion" that all of Congress is now acting under, knowing there are numerous sealed cased of allegations/settlements that are working on Capital Hill every day as if nothing happened...how do you ever get to something resembling a "clean slate" on this issue without full disclosure?

Edited November 28, 2017 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Don't shoot the messenger. Discussion on Rush's show today (relax I listed for a total of about 3 minutes before another commercial annoyance drove me back to the safety of the Beatles channel) was that Bernie is gearing up for a presidential run. Rush said young kids are in love with socialism/communism and Bernie probably will win. HOWEVER, my gosh as much as I enjoyed Bernie last time, he is getting pretty darn old. He'd have to have a helluva good running mate cause time stands still for no one.

[Balta1701]

I just don't buy this idea that in order to have equality we have to treat people differently. I'd be fine with a justice system where the judge doesn't know anything about the individual's sex, race, background, immigration, etc. Same laws for all.

 

This man has had multiple sexual assault accusations thrown at him and had to step down disgracefully but because black people were treated differently in the past we should have more skepticism? The public is paying for his sexual assault settlements. I don't think someone's skin color should affect the application of law. It's just kind of confusing that a man has been accused of sexual assault multiple times and your response is to judge him as a group of people instead of an individual so we can "build their support." If someone commits a sex crime, I want them to face the court of law.

 

You're opening a real can of worm though. Do we write these different standards for different groups into law? What if we had a Japanese senator in a sex scandal? Would that individual get a bigger leash because there were internment camps during WW2? What about Cosby? How does the justice system help build support with black people if he has to face the law for drugging and raping women? Lesser sentencing? What about black immigrants from Jamaica? Do they get any sort of lenience in the law? If Elizabeth Warren got caught up in a sex scandal would your first concern be ingratiating the greater population of blonde-haired, blue-eyed Cherokees or is it enforcing the law of the land? Where does this end?

 

I should say, I was a fan of Conyers. I think history will be kind to his views on American foreign policy and whistleblowers.

No, we should not treat them differently in a legal sense. However, as of right now, you are ok with Conyers being treated differently from anyone else in Congress and ok with it reducing the power of African Americans in Congress. His information was leaked. He deserves to be removed, but this was a selective attack that harms the voting power of the Congressional Black Caucus. It is not inappropriate for the CBC to say "Wait a second, we don't want to defend him personally, but why should our voting power be diminished by this if the same thing is not being done to others in Congress? What are you going to do to make sure that this does not harm our ability to represent the interests of African Americans in Congress"?

 

And seriously, your Warren rant is just stomach churning.

[illinilaw08]

Don't shoot the messenger. Discussion on Rush's show today (relax I listed for a total of about 3 minutes before another commercial annoyance drove me back to the safety of the Beatles channel) was that Bernie is gearing up for a presidential run. Rush said young kids are in love with socialism/communism and Bernie probably will win. HOWEVER, my gosh as much as I enjoyed Bernie last time, he is getting pretty darn old. He'd have to have a helluva good running mate cause time stands still for no one.

 

RUSH. IS. NOT. A. RELIABLE. SOURCE. OF. INFORMATION.

[bmags]

Remember when we were talking about how amazing it is that Rahm can still clear the field with his low approval? With Rep Guitierrez dropping out of his re-election bid, Chuy Garcia plans to run for that seat.

 

 

[GoSox05]

Remember when we were talking about how amazing it is that Rahm can still clear the field with his low approval? With Rep Guitierrez dropping out of his re-election bid, Chuy Garcia plans to run for that seat.

 

Ald. Carlos Rosa is also planning to run.

[bmags]

Ald. Carlos Rosa is also planning to run.

 

For gutierrez seat not Mayor.

[StrangeSox]

Momentum seems to be building on a primary challenge against Lipinski. He's a bad blue dog Dem so I'd be happy to see someone actually progressive representing me.

 

Interesting intra-Dem war brewing in Illinois: First Gillibrand—and, as of this AM, @NARAL, @MoveOn, @BoldProgressive, @DFAAction, @HRC—now backing a challenger to sitting conservative Dem Rep. Lipinski.

— Gabriel Debenedetti (@gdebenedetti) November 28, 2017

 

[GoSox05]

For gutierrez seat not Mayor.

 

Sorry, thought that was what you referring to.