2017 Republican Thread

[chw42]

My favorite response to the nonsensical Trump claim:

 

Kinda like that South Park episode where the whole 2008 election was just a heist. And the McCains and Obamas were supposed to go retire and ride off into the sunset.

Edited March 6, 2017 by chw42

[southsider2k5]

My favorite response to the nonsensical Trump claim:

 

Say nothing? The last few months of the election was Trump story after Trump story, mixed in with James Comey's crusade. Everything but the kitchen sink got thrown at Trump. His voters just didn't care about any of it.

[StrangeSox]

Say nothing? The last few months of the election was Trump story after Trump story, mixed in with James Comey's crusade. Everything but the kitchen sink got thrown at Trump. His voters just didn't care about any of it.

 

The information about Trump campaign members being under FBI/FISA investigation didn't come out until after the election, and that was a thing that actually happened, unlike this 100% made-up claim that Obama ordered Trump Tower to be wiretapped.

 

Trump's always been a paranoid conspiracy guy. Birther nonsense, vaccines cause autism, Ted Cruz's dad played a role in killing JFK, 3-5 million illegal voters, thousands of Muslims cheering 9/11 in NJ, Obama literally founded ISIS, polls are rigged, if he lost then the election was rigged, probably more I'm forgetting. This is who he is and who he's always been.

[southsider2k5]

The information about Trump campaign members being under FBI/FISA investigation didn't come out until after the election, and that was a thing that actually happened, unlike this 100% made-up claim that Obama ordered Trump Tower to be wiretapped.

 

Trump's always been a paranoid conspiracy guy. Birther nonsense, vaccines cause autism, Ted Cruz's dad played a role in killing JFK, 3-5 million illegal voters, thousands of Muslims cheering 9/11 in NJ, Obama literally founded ISIS, polls are rigged, if he lost then the election was rigged, probably more I'm forgetting. This is who he is and who he's always been.

 

Again, all of this was said before the election.

[StrangeSox]

Huh, I definitely messed up my timeline there and thought the FISA stuff didn't come out until afterwards.

[EvilMonkey]

Obama spied on reporters, is it such a stretch to think he spied on Trump?

[NorthSideSox72]

Obama spied on reporters, is it such a stretch to think he spied on Trump?

1. What spying did he do on reporters?

 

2. Getting a wire tap on Trump would have taken extraordinary action from an FBI that already had a tense relationship with him AND to get through a court. So yeah, that is a gigantic stretch.

 

[southsider2k5]

Didn't we wiretap Merkl too?

[StrangeSox]

The US government has definitely spied on foreign government officials including Merkel.

 

Trump is not a foreign government official.

[southsider2k5]

I definitely don't think the US spying on its own citizens is any sort of a leap of faith. President after President has does nothing but strengthen those powers and slowly but surely abuse them a little more with each passing term. Mix in any suspicious work with the Russians and you have a fairly easy and obvious reason to get a wiretap granted by the legal system. Ever wonder how these contacts with Russia became documented? Do you think it was random luck by our spy agencies?

 

While the man is an obvious loon, in this case, I don't see it as a large stretch of imagination to see this happening.

[StrangeSox]

The accusation from Trump/Breitbart fever swamps is that Obama personally ordered illegal wiretaps on Trump Tower. Accusing the former President of literally doing Watergate 2.0 with zero evidence is a big f***ing deal.

 

e: the contacts with Russia have been documented because it's obvious to anyone who has even a pop fiction level familiarity with the intelligence community that a Russian Ambassador's phone lines are going to be monitored by the US intelligence community (and probably every other major IC in the world). To go from Trump aide's various public links to Russia, off-the-books stuff that came to light in other ways (Manafort being on pro-Russian Ukranian payroll), and conversations with Russian foreign nationals to the President of the United States ordering illegal wiretaps of a political opponent is a gigantic chasm of a stretch.

Edited March 6, 2017 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

I definitely don't think the US spying on its own citizens is any sort of a leap of faith. President after President has does nothing but strengthen those powers and slowly but surely abuse them a little more with each passing term. Mix in any suspicious work with the Russians and you have a fairly easy and obvious reason to get a wiretap granted by the legal system. Ever wonder how these contacts with Russia became documented? Do you think it was random luck by our spy agencies?

 

While the man is an obvious loon, in this case, I don't see it as a large stretch of imagination to see this happening.

 

The real problem is that no one seems to understand how wiretap works.

 

Even if Trump was under investigation, Obama couldnt have done it on his own.

[southsider2k5]

The accusation from Trump/Breitbart fever swamps is that Obama personally ordered illegal wiretaps on Trump Tower. Accusing the former President of literally doing Watergate 2.0 with zero evidence is a big f***ing deal.

 

I know what the accusations are. I can also take a piece of lunacy and see where the reality in it might come from.

 

Again, tell me where you think all of this information about Russia is coming from? Falling out of the sky?

[StrangeSox]

I know what the accusations are. I can also take a piece of lunacy and see where the reality in it might come from.

 

Again, tell me where you think all of this information about Russia is coming from? Falling out of the sky?

 

Monitoring of Russian foreign nationals by both US and potentially other Western intelligence services.

 

This is tens of thousands of miles from Obama ordering illegal wiretaps of a US citizen/political opponent.

[southsider2k5]

The real problem is that no one seems to understand how wiretap works.

 

Even if Trump was under investigation, Obama couldnt have done it on his own.

 

Of course he wouldn't have. But most are too lazy these days to actually spell out the detail of how those things work, and instead speak in short hand. In a case like this, anything done by the federal government during the previous eight years of the Presidency would be done by Obama. Starting January 20, anything done by the federal government is done by Trump... at least when you speak a large portion of the country.

[EvilMonkey]

1. What spying did he do on reporters?

 

2. Getting a wire tap on Trump would have taken extraordinary action from an FBI that already had a tense relationship with him AND to get through a court. So yeah, that is a gigantic stretch.

AP says they did it to their reporters. So no, it isn't that much of a stretch. And you all are taking 'wire tap' too literally. You know he means he was spied on, by whatever means it happened.

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/govt-obtain...e-records-probe

Edited March 6, 2017 by Alpha Dog

[southsider2k5]

Monitoring of Russian foreign nationals by both US and potentially other Western intelligence services.

 

This is tens of thousands of miles from Obama ordering illegal wiretaps of a US citizen/political opponent.

 

You have a lot more faith in the United States spy agencies than I do.

[StrangeSox]

AP says they did it to their reporters. So no, it isn't that much of a stretch. And you all are taking 'wire tap' too literally. You know he means he was spied on, by whatever means it happened.

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/govt-obtain...e-records-probe

 

Obama did not wiretap reporters.

 

Do you understand the scale of the 100% evidence-free claim that Trump has leveled here?

 

You have a lot more faith in the United States spy agencies than I do.

 

This just seems like an excuse to believe in things with zero evidence. We know about Trump campaign/admin contacts with Russian ambassadors because we monitor the Russian ambassador. That doesn't mean or lend any support to a claim that the President ordered illegal wiretapping of a US citizen.

Edited March 6, 2017 by StrangeSox

[EvilMonkey]

Obama did not wiretap reporters.

 

Do you understand the scale of the 100% evidence-free claim that Trump has leveled here?

You take things too literally, when it suits you. Yes, Obama did not go down there and demand records of all these reporters, but someone in his administration did. he gets the good, he also gets the bad.

[southsider2k5]

Obama did not wiretap reporters.

 

Do you understand the scale of the 100% evidence-free claim that Trump has leveled here?

 

 

 

This just seems like an excuse to believe in things with zero evidence. We know about Trump campaign/admin contacts with Russian ambassadors because we monitor the Russian ambassador. That doesn't mean or lend any support to a claim that the President ordered illegal wiretapping of a US citizen.

 

The United States as a long and storied history of using its spy agencies as tool for those in power to monitor and even intimidate opponents. Throw in the stories about involvement with Russia during the election and it is not kind of a leap of faith to see Trump and people in his team being tapped and monitored by our spy agencies.

[StrangeSox]

You take things too literally, when it suits you. Yes, Obama did not go down there and demand records of all these reporters, but someone in his administration did. he gets the good, he also gets the bad.

 

You're making excuses for the words Trump used because it suits you. Trump made a specific claim with zero evidence. That the Obama administration collected phone records of reporters says nothing about the plausibility of the Obama administration ordering the illegal wiretapping of Trump.

[CrimsonWeltall]

And you all are taking 'wire tap' too literally. You know he means he was spied on, by whatever means it happened.

 

No one is taking him too literally because that's literally what he said.

 

"President Obama was tapping my phones in October"

[StrangeSox]

The United States as a long and storied history of using its spy agencies as tool for those in power to monitor and even intimidate opponents. Throw in the stories about involvement with Russia during the election and it is not kind of a leap of faith to see Trump and people in his team being tapped and monitored by our spy agencies.

 

Okay, you are free to believe this evidence-free claim from a man with a history of promoting paranoid conspiracy theories. I'll duck back out of the Republican/MAGA thread.

[southsider2k5]

Okay, you are free to believe this evidence-free claim from a man with a history of promoting paranoid conspiracy theories. I'll duck back out of the Republican/MAGA thread.

 

Honestly with all of the background fires around Trump, I would be shocked if he weren't being monitored. It would be basically negligent.

[Soxbadger]

Of course he wouldn't have. But most are too lazy these days to actually spell out the detail of how those things work, and instead speak in short hand. In a case like this, anything done by the federal government during the previous eight years of the Presidency would be done by Obama. Starting January 20, anything done by the federal government is done by Trump... at least when you speak a large portion of the country.

 

He called Obama a sad man, that implies Obama did it directly.

 

Its entirely inaccurate and completely undermines how the United States system works.

 

Its the equivalent of someone in criminal court telling the judge "Im being arrested because of Rauner/Rahm."

 

If people arent willing to stand up to Trump and educate him on how the system, that he is currently the President of, works, then we dont deserve our freedom anymore.

 

Its really that simple.

 

(edit)

 

SS2k,

 

He may have been legitimately monitored. That is why he is framing this as "Obama" the "sad man" did it, so that any investigation's credibility is destroyed. He is hedging against a real criminal investigation.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Soxbadger