2017 Republican Thread

[southsider2k5]

Of course it's a poverty issue. Which groups of people are more likely to be in poverty?

People that had poor parents.

[Reddy]

This is a cycle of kids having people like you telling them that they can't amount of anything because of who they are and what they look like.

 

and brother, that is not even a little bit what I'm intending to do, and you know that. If that's how it's coming off to you guys, fine - I'll consider that and re-evaluate how to better express myself, but in having discussions exactly like this one with my friends who are POC, I haven't had the same level of gut-check, defensive reactions I've gotten from you all.

[Reddy]

People that had poor parents.

can you give me the demographic breakdown of the communities that experience the most poverty in, say, the Chicagoland area?

[Reddy]

I didn't go to school to be a s***ty film maker and make $30,000 a year. This was a disadvantage to me in my pursuit of a job when I graduated. There were less opportunities available to me because of reparations for crimes that happened when my family was in Europe. Sharing a similar skin tone with slave owners from the 19th century shouldn't make it tougher for me to get a scholarships, financial aid, jobs or anything.

Why not? Sharing the same skin tone as slaves in the 19th century makes it tougher for black kids to go to college and find jobs.

[southsider2k5]

can you give me the demographic breakdown of the communities that experience the most poverty in, say, the Chicagoland area?

 

Despite your best effort to make this is a racist issue it is not. In order for it to be true, you would need to be able to prove that affluent black parents tend to raise poverty stricken black kids at a higher rate than whites do. Can you prove that? I know the reflex is to see race in everything, but that simplistic idea just doesn't fly here.

[Reddy]

Which socioeconomic factors determine poverty? Things like how many parents you have at home, how educated your parent(s) are, etc. Unless you think non-whites can't raise a child together and get a degree I'm not sure what your point is.

show me the demographic breakdown along racial lines for poverty in this country. Wait. I'll do it:

Poverty Rate by Race/Ethnicity

 

[Reddy]

Despite your best effort to make this is a racist issue it is not. In order for it to be true, you would need to be able to prove that affluent black parents tend to raise poverty stricken black kids at a higher rate than whites do. Can you prove that? I know the reflex is to see race in everything, but that simplistic idea just doesn't fly here.

if you're born black, you're nearly 300% more likely to be poor than if you're born white.

 

Yeah. Black people totally aren't systemically disenfranchised in America....

[Reddy]

That doesn't prove anything. I believe in equality of opportunity and you don't. You believe in equality of outcome and I don't.

I believe in equality of opportunity. That means women and minorities should be paid equally for equal work, and should have equal access to education and jobs. They don't, however, because of implicit bias.

 

And of course to you, an extremely high black and hispanic poverty rate doesn't prove anything.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Reddy

[Reddy]

Race and poverty and education and jobs are all one interconnected web of an issue. You can't separate one from the others. Every part of the problem involves the other parts of the problem. It's not as simplistic as you GOP-ers make it out to be.

[Reddy]

Explain how women get paid less than men in the same field. Women's issues in employment are solely based on the fact that if they want to raise a family they may have to choose between doing so and having a fruitful career. It's a complicated issue that I have no solution for. That being said, male or female, I'm a teacher, a Chem engineer or a data analyst we will make the same salary. Are you really that obtuse? You think they give men 65K and women 60k? Are you that ignorant? I'm employed in the top of my field and all the girls I studied with in college got the same offers as me.

 

Men earn more than women because they go to degrees that pay more. The top paying degrees - Chem engineering, petroleum engineering, computer science, etc. are all male dominated degrees. The lowest paying degrees - sociology, social work, poli sci, etc. are all women dominated.

this is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen. I'm at a loss. I don't know if I have the time to tackle every single thing that's factually and statistically incorrect in this post, but I'll see what I can do.

[BigSqwert]

Which socioeconomic factors determine poverty? Things like how many parents you have at home....

 

Don't you find it odd that people of color will get considerably more jail time for the same crimes white people commit? Therein lies one of the main root causes for impoverished families having a single parent in the household. If you want to have kids grow up with both parents, stop putting black men in jail for possessing weed and giving white men a pass.

[Reddy]

Do you think judges just decide to put the black guy in jail? The white guy usually shows up with a lawyer. If you can't afford a lawyer don't put yourself in front of a judge. You think the white meth Mules in the Ozarks get off? No. It's not the skin color that gets them off it's the familial support and the lawyer.

WHICH THEY ONLY HAVE ACCESS TO BECAUSE OF THEIR ECONOMIC PRIVILEGE WHICH THEY HAVE IN PART BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR

 

jesus.

[Reddy]

I have noticed that. I should note that it has nothing to do with wages but it's actually at the center of my politcial beliefs. I've always talked about how republicans need to make decriminalization a part of their platform so they can have real policy to help the impoverished instead of just pandering to hold the votes every November. I believe in decriminalization to some extent and more importantly lesser sentences on nonviolent offenses. I've posted about Rand Paul and Booker and their proposed policy in the past.

 

So yeah the system is wrong. At the same time, don't sling drugs and you won't have this issue. I never had to have my parents bail me out for selling drugs.

You're putting on a white privilege CLINIC today.

[Reddy]

White kids like you don't need to deal drugs because they get an allowance from mom and dad. Black kids in impoverished neighborhoods have to deal drugs to help their single parent put food on the table and take care of their two siblings, because the other parent is in jail on trumped up charges and a harsher than necessary sentence. You're asking them to turn down the huge sums of money that literally feed their families out of some sense of morality? What's truly more moral? Not deal drugs and let your family suffer or deal drugs, feed your family, and risk being put in jail?

[Reddy]

So explain how whites earn in the middle of the pack? Is there also a Jewish privilege? Indian privilege? When the Chinese come here and do well is that despite all the racists? What are the rates of education level and parents in the household for Chinese people? How about Indians? Why are the excelling? They too have a darker skin tone. Why are there more whites than chinese in jail? Is it because of Chinese privelege?

Now we're getting into a cultural discussion. You're moving the goalpost and starting a nice little Alt-Right rant about cultural superiority. You really wanna go there?

[Reddy]

My parents never gave me an allowance and that's a racist implication. When it snowed I hit the streets with a shovel. When it was spring I tired to find another lawn to mow.

don't get all snowflakey on me now.

[Reddy]

There is no snow to shovel (the city does it), and there are no lawns to mow in the The Bronx. Next?

[Reddy]

Cut your name calling bulls***. You said whites makes more than blacks and Mexicans so they're privileged. Asians and Jews make more than whites so they must also be privileged Right? Explain why they do better. Explain why the system isn't rigged against them.

I did not say that. I said that white privilege allows them to have an advantage over blacks and latinos because of skin color and societal realities such as the one you admitted to - unfair sentencing and incarceration.

 

Asians, Indians and others would be in the same boat, except that there are cultural differences due to their highly structured home countries that have translated over to their lives in the US. If African countries were the same economic powerhouses China, Japan and India are, then things may in fact be different. But black people in America HAVE no home culture. All of it has been developed HERE in America and came out of slave culture, because they were taken away from their homes - NOT by choice. Asians and Indians and others chose to move here pursuing economic advantages. That creates a massive difference in their ability to be financially successful.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Reddy

[Reddy]

Cut your name calling bulls***.

 

The irony. Wow.

[Soxbadger]

Cut your name calling bulls***. You said whites makes more than blacks and Mexicans so they're privileged. Asians and Jews make more than whites so they must also be privileged Right? Explain why they do better. Explain why the system isn't rigged against them.

 

Well I dont really want to get into this cluster f***, but since the question is about history, Ill go with it.

 

Asians and Jews for the most part immigrated by choice to the United States and were able to better rely on family/social support networks. They were not subjected to a forced system where their families were separated and where steps were taken to ensure that they would be not capable of challenging their master.

 

That being said, there are different factors for each group. Some of the answers dont even really involve the United States, its just the unfortunate (or fortunate) historical progression of mankind.

 

My opinion is that African American's have been the racial group that has been given the short end of the stick the most consistently in the United States. That is not to say that at certain times American Indians, Jews, Asians, etc did not suffer.

 

Reddy,

 

I know that many times we have been on the opposite side of the fence. But I do believe that many times your heart/mind are in the right place. Right or wrong, there is always a place for those who argue on behalf of others.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Soxbadger

[Reddy]

You namecall to deflect the point you can't address. I called you what everyone else saw you display.

I. I literally addressed it in depth just above your post. Lol.

 

And I actually didn't call you anything. If you took it that way, maybe it's because deep down you know it was accurate. I simply said you were making an alt-right argument. Hang in there, buddy.

[Reddy]

So black people had slavery - I'm aware. Doesn't that mean everyone is privileged other than them? All the Asians I went to school with had better cars and computers than me. They had spending money from their parents and I had to work. Aren't they privileged? We're Mexican people also slaves? Why do I have privilege over them? Still skin color? What about my Mexican friend Ian who is pale as printer paper and has red hair? Is he privileged or not? Does he get reparations and why?

I actually answered this question in the post you're quoting. Not sure how you didn't get that.

 

There are few people I know who work as hard for as little as latin american immigrants.

[Reddy]

This is a good point. The salient point is to argue for others ever when you have no regard for the facts at hand. This is indeed the crux of white guilt. Heart cooks brain.

Your "facts" are not necessarily the correct facts.

[BigSqwert]

So black people had slavery - I'm aware. Doesn't that mean everyone is privileged other than them? All the Asians I went to school with had better cars and computers than me. They had spending money from their parents and I had to work. Aren't they privileged? We're Mexican people also slaves? Why do I have privilege over them? Still skin color? What about my Mexican friend Ian who is pale as printer paper and has red hair? Is he privileged or not? Does he get reparations and why?

 

I think the point is that, in general, white people get more advantages in our society. Whether it's getting pulled over by a cop and given the benefit of the doubt, applying for a job, or obtaining a small business loan, in most of these scenarios the white person tends to get more favorable treatment. Sure you can come up with anecdotes to identify individual exceptions, but we're talking generalities here.

[Reddy]

In fact, between the two of us, I was the only one to post actual statistics that supported my argument. The second you do the same, I'll lend some validity to your argument. Isn't that how this works?