2017 Republican Thread

[Reddy]

Reddy,

 

I know that many times we have been on the opposite side of the fence. But I do believe that many times your heart/mind are in the right place. Right or wrong, there is always a place for those who argue on behalf of others.

 

 

Appreciate that. Like I said, I'm pretty aware of my weaknesses in terms of my online debate skills, but going through these s*** shows helps me re-evaluate and hone my messaging. I'm not usually speaking with an exclusively white male audience in my day to day life, and I need to learn how to speak with a group like this one (which is nearly exclusively straight, white and male). Our side needs to win back those white votes we lost in November, and the only way we can do that is by learning how to talk about these issues without causing the reaction I caused here today.

[Reddy]

The funny part is Reddy made himself, and all of his awesomeness and achieving, the prime example of white privelege. Nevermind he's a failed film maker making 30K living in a s***ty NY apartment. Apparently those white privilege checks ain't cashing for you. Hopefully daddy still has cash for you to keep the wifi going so you can continue to promolgulate your white guilt.

 

Have a good one.

 

I.... I know. I am a prime example of white privilege.

 

The difference between you and me is that I recognize that.

 

But sick closing argument.

 

ETA: for the record, your attempt at a burn assuming my "daddy" pays my bills is a pretty pathetic way to pick up your toys and leave when you can't hold up your end of a debate any longer. Didn't you pull the "racist" card when I assumed you got an allowance? Your hypocrisy is just funny. And a little sad. *kisses*

Edited May 23, 2017 by Reddy

[Reddy]

Some people have s*** to do. My white privilege isn't good enough by itself to support my career.

[southsider2k5]

if you're born black, you're nearly 300% more likely to be poor than if you're born white.

 

Yeah. Black people totally aren't systemically disenfranchised in America....

 

If you want to take the easy way out, sure stay in your bubble. But it would be nice if you actually weren't disenfranchising the people you pretend so hard to care about, but have heard so much about from your other like minded friends.

 

We reward one thing in this country above all else, and it is not race.

[southsider2k5]

WHICH THEY ONLY HAVE ACCESS TO BECAUSE OF THEIR ECONOMIC PRIVILEGE WHICH THEY HAVE IN PART BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR

 

jesus.

 

I can't believe that people actually can think like this.

[Soxbadger]

This is a good point. The salient point is to argue for others ever when you have no regard for the facts at hand. This is indeed the crux of white guilt. Heart cooks brain.

 

It is your opinion that there is "no regard for the facts." It is my opinion that you purposefully ignore certain facts and that you try to re-frame arguments so that they fit your personal objective. I really can not comment on the white guilt part, I personally try and look out for anyone who I think is disadvantaged, irrespective of their race. I argue to

 

 

Appreciate that. Like I said, I'm pretty aware of my weaknesses in terms of my online debate skills, but going through these s*** shows helps me re-evaluate and hone my messaging. I'm not usually speaking with an exclusively white male audience in my day to day life, and I need to learn how to speak with a group like this one (which is nearly exclusively straight, white and male). Our side needs to win back those white votes we lost in November, and the only way we can do that is by learning how to talk about these issues without causing the reaction I caused here today.

 

Reddy,

 

I dont believe that this board is very indicative of speaking to a white male audience, so I wouldnt really take that much from it. There arent a lot of "free agents", there are some posters who many swing back and forth, but those posters you can recognize pretty quickly based on their tone.

 

The real problem isnt about "winning people back to a side", its about trying to explain why certain policies may not be in the best interest of "either" side. Most people arent going to come out as winners due to the current administration's policies, and that is what needs to be focused on. Its not about race, its about economic oppression.

[southsider2k5]

White kids like you don't need to deal drugs because they get an allowance from mom and dad. Black kids in impoverished neighborhoods have to deal drugs to help their single parent put food on the table and take care of their two siblings, because the other parent is in jail on trumped up charges and a harsher than necessary sentence. You're asking them to turn down the huge sums of money that literally feed their families out of some sense of morality? What's truly more moral? Not deal drugs and let your family suffer or deal drugs, feed your family, and risk being put in jail?

 

I can't believe you can type something like this and not see the naked racism in it. The vast majority of poor black households work for a living, not deal drugs. This is the exact thing I am talking about with your ignorant stereotyping of people you know nothing about. Poor black kids aren't drug dealers. They don't need to deal drugs. Most people in this situation work real jobs to help out their families. How you can call your self moral and compassionate and still post stuff like that is beyond me.

[southsider2k5]

Cut your name calling bulls***. You said whites makes more than blacks and Mexicans so they're privileged. Asians and Jews make more than whites so they must also be privileged Right? Explain why they do better. Explain why the system isn't rigged against them.

 

Historically Jews and Asians have fought almost all of the same economic hurdles that blacks have faced in this country.

[illinilaw08]

Historically Jews and Asians have fought almost all of the same economic hurdles that blacks have faced in this country.

 

I'm not sure that's true. The first and most obvious one is slavery. Asians, Jews, and other immigrants faced different economic hurdles, but being chattel wasn't one of them. The second is Jim Crow laws in the South and discriminatory housing policy in the North. That's not to say that Asians, Jews and other immigrants haven't fought their own economic hurdles, but African Americans had to have a war fought to obtain freedom, and then historic legislation passed to put them on equal footing. To say that those policies haven't led to unique economic hurdles to generations of African Americans would be disingenuous.

 

On policing (brought up earlier in this thread), poor, disproportionately minority areas have a very different police presence than an affluent suburb. I was a prosecutor in a large city, and I can attest to the number of police reports in the poorer areas of town that started with "police stop initiated because suspect had taillight out" and ended with an arrest for possession. Kids who make mistakes in poor, disproportionately minority areas have a higher likelihood of having a record while possessing drugs at a similar rate. And a conviction at 18 can have a massive impact on ability to get into college and get a job.

 

The discussion should be more nuanced than "poverty not race" and "bad parenting."

[southsider2k5]

I'm not sure that's true. The first and most obvious one is slavery. Asians, Jews, and other immigrants faced different economic hurdles, but being chattel wasn't one of them. The second is Jim Crow laws in the South and discriminatory housing policy in the North. That's not to say that Asians, Jews and other immigrants haven't fought their own economic hurdles, but African Americans had to have a war fought to obtain freedom, and then historic legislation passed to put them on equal footing. To say that those policies haven't led to unique economic hurdles to generations of African Americans would be disingenuous.

 

On policing (brought up earlier in this thread), poor, disproportionately minority areas have a very different police presence than an affluent suburb. I was a prosecutor in a large city, and I can attest to the number of police reports in the poorer areas of town that started with "police stop initiated because suspect had taillight out" and ended with an arrest for possession. Kids who make mistakes in poor, disproportionately minority areas have a higher likelihood of having a record while possessing drugs at a similar rate. And a conviction at 18 can have a massive impact on ability to get into college and get a job.

 

The discussion should be more nuanced than "poverty not race" and "bad parenting."

 

Civil rights organizations are STILL identifying discrimination against Jews and Jewish groups to this day, as a large problem across the country. We just don't hear nearly as much about it.

[Reddy]

I can't believe you can type something like this and not see the naked racism in it. The vast majority of poor black households work for a living, not deal drugs. This is the exact thing I am talking about with your ignorant stereotyping of people you know nothing about. Poor black kids aren't drug dealers. They don't need to deal drugs. Most people in this situation work real jobs to help out their families. How you can call your self moral and compassionate and still post stuff like that is beyond me.

 

Couple things:

 

1) I was simplifying for rabbit's benefit

 

2) do you or do you not believe in political correctness? You can't have it both ways

 

3) clearly I was making an example, not asserting that all black kids need to deal drugs. Obviously that's not true, so I didn't feel it needed stating.

 

4) black kids are significantly more likely to find themselves in the situation I described than white kids because of economic disparity, not inherently because of their skin color.

 

5) Put away the faux outrage

 

[southsider2k5]

Couple things:

 

1) I was simplifying for rabbit's benefit

 

2) do you or do you not believe in political correctness? You can't have it both ways

 

3) clearly I was making an example, not asserting that all black kids need to deal drugs. Obviously that's not true, so I didn't feel it needed stating.

 

4) black kids are significantly more likely to find themselves in the situation I described than white kids because of economic disparity, not inherently because of their skin color.

5) Put away the faux outrage

 

This entire discussion exists because of your fake outrage. The fact that you are the one labeling black kids as needing to deal drugs (even if it is "as an example") instead of doing what they typically doing the same thing as white kids in the same situations is as telling as anything.

 

Again, speaking as someone who is familiar with poverty and the people in it, your stereotyping couldn't be any more wrong, or harmful to the people you are talking down on. The only one labeling people based on race here is you. If you don't see that or understand that, you really do need a lot of self-examination.

[Dick Allen]

Here's something interesting. If they are correct, it says moms make 71% of dads in the same position, black and latina moms make even less:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/p...0522-story.html

[Soxbadger]

Civil rights organizations are STILL identifying discrimination against Jews and Jewish groups to this day, as a large problem across the country. We just don't hear nearly as much about it.

 

Its not the same and Jews are somewhat of an outlier because their ethnicity and religion are semi-tied together.

[Reddy]

This entire discussion exists because of your fake outrage. The fact that you are the one labeling black kids as needing to deal drugs (even if it is "as an example") instead of doing what they typically doing the same thing as white kids in the same situations is as telling as anything.

 

Again, speaking as someone who is familiar with poverty and the people in it, your stereotyping couldn't be any more wrong, or harmful to the people you are talking down on. The only one labeling people based on race here is you. If you don't see that or understand that, you really do need a lot of self-examination.

 

I'm not going to engage any further with you on this. I won't be able to surmount your confirmation bias.

 

[Reddy]

Here's something interesting. If they are correct, it says moms make 71% of dads in the same position, black and latina moms make even less:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/p...0522-story.html

 

Fake news. /green

 

[EvilMonkey]

Fake news. /green

Why would anyone ever hire a man again!

 

On a less sarcastic note, nowhere to they reveal their data that led to such conclusions. They try to claim apples to apples, but never get as close as comparing job fields. Sales' is a pretty big field, and a pharma sales person should make more than Mary Kay. You do have the fact that women tend to be less aggressive in seeking higher pay such as raises for concerns of appearing 'b****y', and there appears to be some truth to that. I only have antedotal evidence contrary for me. i have always hired whoever could do the job. My hires in the design field have been primarily women, but I have hired a few guys. A woman was the highest paid of that bunch. My sales people were all paid the same base regardless of sex, the woman actually earned more in commissions. My press operators have all been guys. One woman applied and she did OK, but the guy was far and away the better choice as he also knew basic repair. Looking back my general customer service hires were 50-50, the best and highest paid one was a woman whom I left in charge whenever I was out. I was disappointed when she moved as I was hoping to promote her even more.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Alpha Dog

[Reddy]

Reddy,

 

I dont believe that this board is very indicative of speaking to a white male audience, so I wouldnt really take that much from it. There arent a lot of "free agents", there are some posters who many swing back and forth, but those posters you can recognize pretty quickly based on their tone.

 

The real problem isnt about "winning people back to a side", its about trying to explain why certain policies may not be in the best interest of "either" side. Most people arent going to come out as winners due to the current administration's policies, and that is what needs to be focused on. Its not about race, its about economic oppression.

 

Agreed. 100%

[Jenksismyhero]

This entire discussion exists because of your fake outrage. The fact that you are the one labeling black kids as needing to deal drugs (even if it is "as an example") instead of doing what they typically doing the same thing as white kids in the same situations is as telling as anything.

 

Again, speaking as someone who is familiar with poverty and the people in it, your stereotyping couldn't be any more wrong, or harmful to the people you are talking down on. The only one labeling people based on race here is you. If you don't see that or understand that, you really do need a lot of self-examination.

 

It's ironic that he shares the same generalization problem that Trump suffers from. All black people are poor gangbangers living in the ghetto, apparently.

[caulfield12]

Worth noting that Ivanka employs only women at her company. How can it be so profitable if they need to take pregnancy leave, lol?

 

All the posters here in this thread need to do is watch The Wire from beginning to end, The 13th (documentary by Ada Duvernay) and teach in an inner city public school in the US and get back so we can have a real discussion.

 

Every post in this thread sounds like it was written by Muck Mulvaney or someone who'd just read all the Ayn Rand books.

 

It's amazing that the connection between systemic discrimination against Native Americans, Hispanic Americans and African Americans isn't clear, starting with discriminatory housing/redlining policies exemplified by none other than Fred Trump. Separate was never equal...and inner city/public education is worse now than it was in 1954 when Brown vs. Board of Education was announced by the SCOTUS.

 

I teach nine students in the same school here in China that are all going to Oxford or Cambridge...whose parents on average pay $200k for their education before they even go to the US or England. American students don't stand a chance when those kids in China, India, South Korea and Singapore are working twice as hard and at school or training centers for English every weekend/summer and typically not leaving middle school classrooms until 9-10 pm.

 

For every Ben Carson, whose book Gifted Hands led to Myron Rolle, NFL player and now surgeon...there's a long line of kids whose mostly single mothers (go back to incarceration rates directly impacting African and Hispanic Americans) could not dream of providing those opportunities if not for athletic scholarships kicking in to subsidize costs. Loans for going to university or housing near a decent school? Hard to get. Bad or no credit? Payday loans or even loan sharks. Rinse, cycle and repeat. Everything works in a cycle, and that cycle has been turning against these groups since Reagan's first term in office. Not coincidentally, the US income gap has been widening that entire time, further exacerbating the differences which are largely borne by the poor and drug/opioids addicted.

 

Final assignment, Picketty's book Capital in the 21st Century. Zinn's Peoples' History of the US.

 

Then actual conversation can start to occur. Or we can simply track all those in Appalachia, farmers in the Midwest and former Rust Belt factory workers in OH, PA, MI, WI and IA and look at their children's outcomes compared to the previous two generations that still believed in a little something called the American Dream and American Exceptionalism. Actually, John F. Kennedy and his brother might have been the last two political leaders to hold out a beacon of hope for all the minority communities we've been talking around.

Edited May 23, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

It's ironic that he shares the same generalization problem that Trump suffers from. All black people are poor gangbangers living in the ghetto, apparently.

 

Don't forget bad hombres, rapists, drug dealers, MS-13 members...some apparently are good people, though he doesn't personally know of any to put in his Cabinet.

[Chicago White Sox]

I can't believe you can type something like this and not see the naked racism in it. The vast majority of poor black households work for a living, not deal drugs. This is the exact thing I am talking about with your ignorant stereotyping of people you know nothing about. Poor black kids aren't drug dealers. They don't need to deal drugs. Most people in this situation work real jobs to help out their families. How you can call your self moral and compassionate and still post stuff like that is beyond me.

Thank you for calling that out. I'm literally embarrassed to call myself a liberal after reading that nonsense.

[BigSqwert]

Don't forget bad hombres, rapists, drug dealers, MS-13 members...some apparently are good people, though he doesn't personally know of any to put in his Cabinet.

 

Don't forget he stuffed Ben Carson into a coffin or car trunk. That has to count for something. Seriously, has anyone seen him since he was named Secretary of HUD?

Edited May 23, 2017 by BigSqwert

[southsider2k5]

I'm not going to engage any further with you on this. I won't be able to surmount your confirmation bias.

 

I can confirm that the typical form of income for a poor black family is not drug dealing.

[Reddy]

It's ironic that he shares the same generalization problem that Trump suffers from. All black people are poor gangbangers living in the ghetto, apparently.

 

You know for an absolute fact that I neither said nor believe that. Way to be intentionally disingenuous.