2017 Republican Thread

[caulfield12]

Here's the problem with statistics.

 

Everyone can create their own, to make a point supporting their beliefs.

 

In the hearing today, Mulvaney was asking for the Dems to quantify or prove that Meals On Wheels, for example...is effective. Do you measure it by lives saved? Well, how? If you're not receiving benefits from this program, how likely are you to starve to death or more likely, have a health-related problem attributable to malnutrition or poor diet?

 

One of the Dem reps responded, well, how do you know that spending $64 billion or $640 billion more is going to "make the world safer," exactly how many nuclear submarines are "allocatively efficient" (versus dangerously low), carriers, F-35's, Stealth bombers, etc.

 

His secondary point was that as much waste and fraud as exists in the entitlement programs (Mulvaney brought up 11,000 that were dead still getting checks, or that some states had rules that X number had to receive a certain benefit regardless of economic conditions)...the numbers are even more frightening in terms of waste in DOD. That they weren't even audit-ready and wouldn't be so until the fall. So how can you say that "pure competition/privatization" is always the solution (the argument for not subsidizing CPB, because Sesame Street is highly profitable...what he didn't mention was all the OTHER education programming that's part of PBS that parents rely upon)...well, if that's actually the case, they're going to have a heckuva time arguing privatizing or running DOD the way they have since the 1980's is leading to cost-efficient expenditures.

Edited May 25, 2017 by caulfield12

[Reddy]

Here's the problem with statistics.

 

Everyone can create their own, to make a point supporting their beliefs.

 

In the hearing today, Mulvaney was asking for the Dems to quantify or prove that Meals On Wheels, for example...is effective. Do you measure it by lives saved? Well, how? If you're not receiving benefits from this program, how likely are you to starve to death or more likely, have a health-related problem attributable to malnutrition or poor diet?

 

One of the Dem reps responded, well, how do you know that spending $64 billion or $640 billion more is going to "make the world safer," exactly how many nuclear submarines are "allocatively efficient" (versus dangerously low), carriers, F-35's, Stealth bombers, etc.

 

His secondary point was that as much waste and fraud as exists in the entitlement programs (Mulvaney brought up 11,000 that were dead still getting checks, or that some states had rules that X number had to receive a certain benefit regardless of economic conditions)...the numbers are even more frightening in terms of waste in DOD. That they weren't even audit-ready and wouldn't be so until the fall. So how can you say that "pure competition/privatization" is always the solution (the argument for not subsidizing CPB, because Sesame Street is highly profitable...what he didn't mention was all the OTHER education programming that's part of PBS that parents rely upon)...well, if that's actually the case, they're going to have a heckuva time arguing privatizing or running DOD the way they have since the 1980's is leading to cost-efficient expenditures.

 

Yes. Statistics can be manipulated and framed to fit a certain argument or perspective - absolutely. They're flawed.

 

Throwing out statistics and relying solely on personal experience is also extremely flawed, and there's a reason the scientific method doesn't rely on one person's personal experience when establishing scientific consensus.

 

Anyway. Let's let this die. He thinks I'm misusing statistics. I think he's biased based on his political leanings and the bubble of his personal experience. Neither one of us is changing our minds about that.

 

[Reddy]

Kind of like your views on most black people selling drugs and your reading of easily understandable statistics (and awesomeness may I add) giving merit to the idea of white privilege.

 

Fixed.

 

Bro just stop. You look foolish. Move on with your life.

[southsider2k5]

Yes. Statistics can be manipulated and framed to fit a certain argument or perspective - absolutely. They're flawed.

 

Throwing out statistics and relying solely on personal experience is also extremely flawed, and there's a reason the scientific method doesn't rely on one person's personal experience when establishing scientific consensus.

 

Anyway. Let's let this die. He thinks I'm misusing statistics. I think he's biased based on his political leanings and the bubble of his personal experience. Neither one of us is changing our minds about that.

 

Unless you are claiming the scientific method has figured out racism in society, you are relying on one person's lack of personal experience to explain something you haven't experienced.

[southsider2k5]

statistics... are just.... statistics....

 

conservativism in a nutshell: rely on personal small sample experience and deny the relevance of broad, large sample statistical analysis. unreal.

 

I assume you're not a moneyball guy either, are ya SS? You must be an "eye-test" and "good face" kind of guy.

 

I am not the type of person to speak on this from my ivory tower on the subject. There is nothing of which you speak out there. There are people who have interpreted certain statistics in the way your preconceived notions buy into, and that is the extent of it. Understanding statistics and their proper usage is actually more important than the raw data. Stats can be made to say whatever you want them to say, and for some reason you want them to assuage your guilt. Maybe your guilt would be better served by getting to know the people who you look down on.

[Reddy]

I am not the type of person to speak on this from my ivory tower on the subject. There is nothing of which you speak out there. There are people who have interpreted certain statistics in the way your preconceived notions buy into, and that is the extent of it. Understanding statistics and their proper usage is actually more important than the raw data. Stats can be made to say whatever you want them to say, and for some reason you want them to assuage your guilt. Maybe your guilt would be better served by getting to know the people who you look down on.

Again with your assumptions. I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that I know, am friends with, and have worked with far more people from far more diverse walks of life than you have in glorious Indiana. I don't need to list my resume for you, because I don't think you care and I don't need your validation, but the hilarious irony here is that you continue to make massive assumptions about me while criticizing the "assumptions" you think I'm making about a particular group of people.

[southsider2k5]

Again with your assumptions. I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that I know, am friends with, and have worked with far more people from far more diverse walks of life than you have in glorious Indiana. I don't need to list my resume for you, because I don't think you care and I don't need your validation, but the hilarious irony here is that you continue to make massive assumptions about me while criticizing the "assumptions" you think I'm making about a particular group of people.

 

Wait, so you are going to make assumptions about where I live, after being angry about assumptions being made? lol, OK. Yep. More of that old fashion hypocrisy.

[Chicago White Sox]

Again with your assumptions. I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that I know, am friends with, and have worked with far more people from far more diverse walks of life than you have in glorious Indiana. I don't need to list my resume for you, because I don't think you care and I don't need your validation, but the hilarious irony here is that you continue to make massive assumptions about me while criticizing the "assumptions" you think I'm making about a particular group of people.

Good god dude, you can't make a single point without being a pretentious douche.

[Reddy]

Good god dude, you can't make a single point without being a pretentious douche.

*coastal elitist.

[Reddy]

Wait, so you are going to make assumptions about where I live, after being angry about assumptions being made? lol, OK. Yep. More of that old fashion hypocrisy.

As long as we both admit we're being hypocritical I'm good with it.

 

For the record, Indiana's diversity supports my point.

[southsider2k5]

As long as we both admit we're being hypocritical I'm good with it.

 

For the record, Indiana's diversity supports my point.

 

Northwest Indiana and Chicago do not. But thanks for proving my point. I grew up and live in a bi-racial town with a pretty even split between black and white, with a long history of racial tension and even riots. It is a former manufacturing and industrial town that now suffers from 50%+ poverty ratings covering both black and white people fairly extensively.

 

I spent 15 years working in the city of Chicago, while not East Coast, working with people from all races, religions, tons of different nations and statuses.

 

I have worked with a ton of kids over the years both through programs and personal relationships, and have seen what works and what does not. You can choose to listen to that experience, or the orations of people who fill your head with things like black people deal drugs because they have to, and white people don't deal drugs because they don't have to, and everyone else who fits into that bubble of like-thinkers you refer to for source information. I prefer to roll my sleeves up and actually support the younger generations in arming them with the tools to actually succeed in this world instead of looking for someone else to do it for them. To me this is more than an exercise in academia and cocktail party debates. These are real people to me. You can keep looking down on them and people like that, and that is fine. Most do.

[Reddy]

Northwest Indiana and Chicago do not. But thanks for proving my point. I grew up and live in a bi-racial town with a pretty even split between black and white, with a long history of racial tension and even riots. It is a former manufacturing and industrial town that now suffers from 50%+ poverty ratings covering both black and white people fairly extensively.

 

I spent 15 years working in the city of Chicago, while not East Coast, working with people from all races, religions, tons of different nations and statuses.

 

I have worked with a ton of kids over the years both through programs and personal relationships, and have seen what works and what does not. You can choose to listen to that experience, or the orations of people who fill your head with things like black people deal drugs because they have to, and white people don't deal drugs because they don't have to, and everyone else who fits into that bubble of like-thinkers you refer to for source information. I prefer to roll my sleeves up and actually support the younger generations in arming them with the tools to actually succeed in this world instead of looking for someone else to do it for them. To me this is more than an exercise in academia and cocktail party debates. These are real people to me. You can keep looking down on them and people like that, and that is fine. Most do.

Thanks for what you do, in all seriousness. Even if I think your perspective is rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of how skin color makes it harder or easier to succeed in America, I appreciate that you're working to create positive change for people. In reality, I think the solution is a mix of what you do - personal empowerment - and the government reigning in the obstacles that stand in their way: supporting education, gun control, improved policing practices, removal of mandatory minimums, decriminalizing weed, etc.

 

For the record, my sleeves are also fully rolled, even if you don't approve of my methods.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Reddy

[caulfield12]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/27/a...e-senate-238868

 

Inside Alabama's "Strange" Three Way GOP Senate primary race...

[caulfield12]

https://twitter.com/ritapanahi/status/872601761101488133

 

I have no idea who Andrew Bolt is and I'm sure he's a racist or sexist or Nazi but kudos to him here.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/pol...608-gwmx7k.html

 

As for the last part of your post, just go to "controversies" on his Wikipedia page.

 

And attempting to beat someone up and film it, let's just say the alt right has been killing people (or at least willing to do so) when they're unhinged, with the most recent example being Portland, as well as the mosque attack in Canada. Let's not forget how Pizza-Gate could have turned out without intervention from authorities (Michael Flynn's own son was the one pushing that conspiracy hard.) You had the African American vet in NYC killed by the alt right wielding swordsman. Dylan Roof in South Carolina, the list goes on and on.

 

 

America was forced to once again reckon with the "alt-right" movement last week.

 

Richard Collins, a black man and a Second Lieutenant in the US Army, was killed by a white college student who followed a white supremacist Facebook page.

 

He was waiting for an Uber at a bus stop at the University of Maryland when Sean Urbanski approached him and stabbed him to death. Collins would have graduated from Bowie State on May 23. The college draped his gown and cap over a chair in memoriam Tuesday.

 

Urbanski, who is a student at the University of Maryland, followed a Facebook group steeped in alt-right ideology, and as a result the killing is being investigated as a hate crime.

https://www.attn.com/stories/17316/white-violence-goes-live

 

 

When did "left wing radicals" actually kill someone since Trump announced he was running for office?

 

 

[illinilaw08]

Do you always defend maseked offenders of felonies or just when the victims have different views than you?

 

Hey! Rabbit and I agree in the Filibuster! Bolt may have pretty terrible views on things, but that doesn't excuse these guys attacking him.

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/pol...608-gwmx7k.html

 

As for the last part of your post, just go to "controversies" on his Wikipedia page.

 

And attempting to beat someone up and film it, let's just say the alt right has been killing people (or at least willing to do so) when they're unhinged, with the most recent example being Portland,

he was a BernieBro, not alt-right. Nice try

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-social-me...--politics.html

WH social media director in ethics trouble for using official government account to go after GOP Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan.

 

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/10/d...-profile-239381

Scavino profile

Edited June 10, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

he was a BernieBro, not alt-right. Nice try

 

This guy was a Bernie Bro? Look again.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/26/us/portland-...bing/index.html

 

 

The GOP (party nominating apparatus) that failed

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/201...t-failed-215243

Edited June 12, 2017 by caulfield12

[EvilMonkey]

This guy was a Bernie Bro? Look again.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/26/us/portland-...bing/index.html

 

 

The GOP (party nominating apparatus) that failed

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/201...t-failed-215243

Just look at his facebook comments. At best you can say he hates everybody and/or is just f*cked int he head . Seems he has kind words for everyone. Still no alt-right.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/28/portland...ders-supporter/

Edited June 12, 2017 by Alpha Dog

[caulfield12]

Just look at his facebook comments. At best you can say he hates everybody and/or is just f*cked int he head . Seems he has kind words for everyone. Still no alt-right.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/28/portland...ders-supporter/

 

http://www.salon.com/2017/06/09/accused-po...right-rhetoric/

 

Christian’s court appearances have been marked by much shouting by him, and much of what he’s saying sounds like he’s directly channeling the talking points promulgated by groups like the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, Patriot Prayer and fans of Kyle Chapman, known to his followers as “Based Stickman.”

 

During a court appearance on Wednesday, Christian started ranting about how he’s “not guilty of anything but defending myself against violent aggression by Micah Fletcher,” the lone survivor among the three men Christian allegedly stabbed after they intervened during his racist tirade against two women on the train.

 

At his arraignment last week, Christian yelled, “Get out if you don’t like free speech!” and “Death to antifa!” (That’s an apparent reference to the left-wing street protesters who call their movement “antifa” for antifascist.)

 

These outbursts directly echo the top three claims chewed over obsessively by the burgeoning movement of hard-line Donald Trump supporters who are pushing for street protests that often end in violence: 1. Their free speech rights are somehow being suppressed by leftists. 2. They are in constant physical danger from leftists and need to resort to physical violence in self-defense. 3. Antifa protesters — a group of self-styled radicals who embrace a black-clothes-and-bandanas aesthetic — are a serious threat that must be met with suppressive violence.

 

As I’ve previously reported for Salon, these talking points are a transparent fig leaf for the real agenda of this loose coalition of hard-right types, who are advancing an authoritarian agenda and intimidating the Trump resistance with a show of violence. So instead of directly defending racist rhetoric like that advanced by Richard Spencer, Milo Yiannopoulos, Charles Murray or Ann Coulter, many of these alt-right types will instead claim to be defending the free speech rights of racist provocateurs, even if in many cases they do so by heckling or attacking leftists exercising their own free speech rights.

 

Similarly, the claims to “self-defense” are offered in bad faith, as even a casual perusal of alt-right sites demonstrates a strong yearning for violence and the hope that liberals will do something, no matter how slight, that can be used as justification for cracking skulls in. That’s why there’s this obsession with antifa protesters, as their radicalism and similarly discomfiting willingness to push beyond protest or civil disobedience into vandalism and violence offers the alt-right a convenient excuse

 

 

He doesn't give an actual reason for being a Sanders supporter in terms of platform issues, is just virulently anti Hillary.

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.salon.com/2017/06/09/accused-po...right-rhetoric/

 

Christian’s court appearances have been marked by much shouting by him, and much of what he’s saying sounds like he’s directly channeling the talking points promulgated by groups like the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, Patriot Prayer and fans of Kyle Chapman, known to his followers as “Based Stickman.”

 

During a court appearance on Wednesday, Christian started ranting about how he’s “not guilty of anything but defending myself against violent aggression by Micah Fletcher,” the lone survivor among the three men Christian allegedly stabbed after they intervened during his racist tirade against two women on the train.

 

At his arraignment last week, Christian yelled, “Get out if you don’t like free speech!” and “Death to antifa!” (That’s an apparent reference to the left-wing street protesters who call their movement “antifa” for antifascist.)

 

These outbursts directly echo the top three claims chewed over obsessively by the burgeoning movement of hard-line Donald Trump supporters who are pushing for street protests that often end in violence: 1. Their free speech rights are somehow being suppressed by leftists. 2. They are in constant physical danger from leftists and need to resort to physical violence in self-defense. 3. Antifa protesters — a group of self-styled radicals who embrace a black-clothes-and-bandanas aesthetic — are a serious threat that must be met with suppressive violence.

 

As I’ve previously reported for Salon, these talking points are a transparent fig leaf for the real agenda of this loose coalition of hard-right types, who are advancing an authoritarian agenda and intimidating the Trump resistance with a show of violence. So instead of directly defending racist rhetoric like that advanced by Richard Spencer, Milo Yiannopoulos, Charles Murray or Ann Coulter, many of these alt-right types will instead claim to be defending the free speech rights of racist provocateurs, even if in many cases they do so by heckling or attacking leftists exercising their own free speech rights.

 

Similarly, the claims to “self-defense” are offered in bad faith, as even a casual perusal of alt-right sites demonstrates a strong yearning for violence and the hope that liberals will do something, no matter how slight, that can be used as justification for cracking skulls in. That’s why there’s this obsession with antifa protesters, as their radicalism and similarly discomfiting willingness to push beyond protest or civil disobedience into vandalism and violence offers the alt-right a convenient excuse

 

 

He doesn't give an actual reason for being a Sanders supporter in terms of platform issues, is just virulently anti Hillary.

Like I said, f*cked in the head with 'kind words' for everyone.

[southsider2k5]

https://news.vice.com/story/extremism-exper...source=vicefbus

 

Experts in homegrown extremism say it’s not so simple — Hodgkinson had no known association to any left-wing extremist group. But they also say that the past few months have seen enough of a rise in politically motivated violence from the far left that monitors of right-wing extremism have begun shifting their focus, and sounding the alarm. They see indications that the uptick in extremist rhetoric and anti-government activism that characterized the early years of the Obama presidency are beginning to manifest on the far left in the early days of Trump’s, and that the two sides are increasingly headed for confrontation.

 

 

[Reddy]

https://news.vice.com/story/extremism-exper...source=vicefbus

This disgusts me.

[southsider2k5]

There are still regulatory requirements for reporting on preparedness for Y2K. That is about everything you need to know about regulatory reporting in the United States today.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politic...sets/102877378/

[caulfield12]

http://jaybookman.blog.myajc.com/2017/06/1...-to-handel-gop/

 

Argument that Handel winning GA-6 would actually be a loss for GOP in terms of avoiding desperately needed changes.