Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[SoxSteve]

They ALSO did a great job (at least for 2016) going after Fowler and Zobrist, which looked like a questionable deal for his age at the time.

 

The irony is that the two most obvious FA targets after Cespedes last year (Heyward and Upton) were incredible disappointments, although Upton rallied in the second half to put up seemingly respectable numbers, but too little too late.

 

To date, Heyward and Edwin Jackson are the only huge black marks on Epstein, unless you start criticizing some of his Cuban spending, like the LHP Gerardo Concepcion (and he made the big leagues last year).

 

 

AND BACK TO Q TALK...

. Getting rid of D.J Lemehue wasnt a great move and got taken on that trade although it didnt hurt them too much obviously.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

The same reason Cubs and Indians paid up.

 

Pressure on GMs.

 

Pressure on GMs who may not be around when some prospect hits the bigs in a year or two.

They paid up for elite relievers in a huge seller's market. The market dynamics could be totally different this coming July, especially for starting pitchers. I get there is the chance one GM does something crazy out of desperation, but the odds of that are low and not worth the risk of injury or underperformance reducing Quintana's value IMO. Also, GMs at the deadline typically value immediate production vs. long term production, especially if they have multiple holes to fill. Look at what the Dodgers did with Reddick & Hill. They went the rental route instead cashing in any of their elite prospects for a cost-controlled difference maker. I no doubt agree there is typically a premium paid at the deadline, but there is also a limit on how much teams will pay in an individual trade, which is one of the main reasons teams shop in the short-term bin. Every once in a while you may see a Cole Hamels trade, but everything must line up right in terms of supply, demand, prospect capital, & appetite in order for that to happen. Again, I just don't see the odds of getting a far more desirable return six to 12 months from now being that great.

[Chicago White Sox]

Absolutely. And i understand the point that there will be pitchers available next offseason but i don't agree that diminishes his value. I don't think you can cavalierly say "it's just money" when it's $100M+. Just look at the new tax. Just look at the 20 or so teams who can't pay that anyway. We'll be seeing $35-$40M AAVs in the next few years which makes him more valuable. Sox are licking their chops if they have to wait.

You keep saying this, but how are any of the above factors different than today? All else held constant, the more SP options available the less valuable Quintana becomes. He is literally the only TOR starter available right now. Think about that for a minute. Teams desperate for a TOR starter right now literally have no alternatives. Why do we think our price will suddenly be met come July when less teams will be in contention, other options will be available, and certain trade chips will be now be off limits? There is a reason the Sox decided not to sell at the deadline last year. You're typicallly better off going with the largest possible market vs. gambling for one desperate buyer, at least with cost-controlled assets.

[reiks12]

I didnt realize Meadows has had an injury history. Kind of makes me uncomfortable with the thought of little depth in a trade. Maybe I am overthinking this?

Edited January 10, 2017 by reiks12

[iamshack]

They paid up for elite relievers in a huge seller's market. The market dynamics could be totally different this coming July, especially for starting pitchers. I get there is the chance one GM does something crazy out of desperation, but the odds of that are low and not worth the risk of injury or underperformance reducing Quintana's value IMO. Also, GMs at the deadline typically value immediate production vs. long term production, especially if they have multiple holes to fill. Look at what the Dodgers did with Reddick & Hill. They went the rental route instead cashing in any of their elite prospects for a cost-controlled difference maker. I no doubt agree there is typically a premium paid at the deadline, but there is also a limit on how much teams will pay in an individual trade, which is one of the main reasons teams shop in the short-term bin. Every once in a while you may see a Cole Hamels trade, but everything must line up right in terms of supply, demand, prospect capital, & appetite in order for that to happen. Again, I just don't see the odds of getting a far more desirable return six to 12 months from now being that great.

What we've seen this offseason is most of these limitations that typically impact GMs in-season are now being carried over into the offseason. I've commented on it quite a bit. No teams want to move anyone that might be needed this year, especially if they have multiple holes to fill. We are in a sellers market and yet no buyers are budging.

 

I don't see these things really making a trade at the deadline any more difficult than it is today and I don't buy into the "Q won't be worth as much in a buyer's market." A great asset is a great asset in any market.

 

What we're seeing right now in terms of this offseason is quite incredible if you ask me. The lengths these potential buyers have gone to to retain their prospects is unlike anything I've seen before. I guess we'll simply have to see who blinks first.

[caulfield12]

The Indians were considering flipping Miller again this offseason.

 

There's no reason they couldn't accomplish the same thing with Q two years from now when $200 million is the average top 50 starter's price in the free agent market.

 

A mid to low budget team will have to blink with that 2-3 year contention window wide open.

 

Can anyone count more than 8-10 teams willing to give out a $200+ million contract for pitching? Thought not.

Edited January 10, 2017 by caulfield12

[Con te Giolito]

Now that the board zeitgeist has moved to accept not trading Quintana until the deadline he will be dealt imminently.

[reiks12]

Now that the board zeitgeist has moved to accept not trading Quintana until the deadline he will be dealt imminently.

 

SHHHH you are going to ruin the plan

[reiks12]

Today is the day everyone. Get ready

[Bob Sacamano]

This basically confirms what we are all thinking: Pirates have an offer out but Sox want Meadows.

[Bob Sacamano]

Today is the day everyone. Get ready

 

Hopefully we don't see tweets or anything until at least 3 o clock. I need to be productive lol

[SoxAce]

Today is the day everyone. Get ready

 

But it's not Wednesday.

[southsider2k5]

Really? Because Benintendi was apparently on the table for Sale in July.

 

I haven't seen this said. Do you have a link?

[caulfield12]

It's irrelevant unless it was Moncada and Benintendi.

 

But if it was Devers and Benintendi...that would be a bit disappointing.

[steveno89]

I didnt realize Meadows has had an injury history. Kind of makes me uncomfortable with the thought of little depth in a trade. Maybe I am overthinking this?

 

I've been suggesting that Meadows injury history raises some doubt about his future. He is a very good prospect, but has not been the most durable guy out there.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Rum Bunter also says the Pirates are less likely to trade Bell than Meadows.

 

If that's the case, the 3 player package is most likely Glasnow/Newman/Keller which would be disappointing.

 

 

That's a good deal from the Pirates end though. The problem we have with that deal is it's so pitching heavy. Glasnow is a top 10 prospect in baseball. Newman is somewhere in 35-50 range. Keller is rising and will most likely be top 50. That's 3 top 50 guys for Q. That's a lot of s***. It's just not the package packed with position players that we are expecting. If they added KeBryan Hayes or another high upside type and possibly their Competitive Balance pick then that's a fair deal. Not sure I'd be super excited because of the lack of position players but Glasnow/Newman/Keller trumps anything the Astros can do.

[Bananarchy]

Is today the day the rebuild continues?!

 

Please?

[shipps]

Dont teams understand that when a team has the leverage of having a guy like Q that we dont just want the guys that you are willing to part with, you have to give us a guy that you arent willing to part with as well to complete a trade? If you dont do it then we will keep Q until someone does.

[Bananarchy]

Dont teams understand that when a team has the leverage of having a guy like Q that we dont just want the guys that you are willing to part with, you have to give us a guy that you arent willing to part with as well to complete a trade? If you dont do it then we will keep Q until someone does.

...or until Q's value drops enough to make the package a good deal.

 

Which could take years.

[steveno89]

That's a good deal from the Pirates end though. The problem we have with that deal is it's so pitching heavy. Glasnow is a top 10 prospect in baseball. Newman is somewhere in 35-50 range. Keller is rising and will most likely be top 50. That's 3 top 50 guys for Q. That's a lot of s***. It's just not the package packed with position players that we are expecting. If they added KeBryan Hayes or another high upside type and possibly their Competitive Balance pick then that's a fair deal. Not sure I'd be super excited because of the lack of position players but Glasnow/Newman/Keller trumps anything the Astros can do.

 

Glasnow/Newman/Keller is interesting, but we still need one more additional player along the lines of Hayes or Diaz to have the deal make sense for the White Sox.

 

I don't feel like either the Astros or Pirates is close to getting a deal done from the rumors we have heard

[Bananarchy]

Glasnow/Newman/Keller is interesting, but we still need one more additional player along the lines of Hayes or Diaz to have the deal make sense for the White Sox.

 

I don't feel like either the Astros or Pirates is close to getting a deal done from the rumors we have heard

It does feel like a lot of buzzing without much concrete stuff.

[steveno89]

It does feel like a lot of buzzing without much concrete stuff.

 

Likely we are looking at something along the lines of:

 

Glasnow/Newman/Keller

 

or

 

Martes/Tucker/Paulino

 

as the two offers on the table

 

Sox are rejecting both of those. Neither the Pirates or Astros seem to want to include more at this time to beat the others offer, and both are a ways of from working out.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Glasnow/Newman/Keller is interesting, but we still need one more additional player along the lines of Hayes or Diaz to have the deal make sense for the White Sox.

 

I don't feel like either the Astros or Pirates is close to getting a deal done from the rumors we have heard

 

 

Glasnow, Newman, and Keller easily gives the Sox the #1 system in baseball. That's a lot. Good enough to move 4 years of Q? I don't know.

[Bananarchy]

Likely we are looking at something along the lines of:

 

Glasnow/Newman/Keller

 

or

 

Martes/Tucker/Paulino

 

as the two offers on the table

 

Sox are rejecting both of those. Neither the Pirates or Astros seem to want to include more at this time to beat the others offer, and both are a ways of from working out.

And Cashman essentially saying the Yankees are set in their rotation, which was a last ditch effort to lower the White Sox price. I'm happy Hahn isn't budging.

[shipps]

I dont think Hahn is going to budge on not getting an elite offensive player in the deal. He seems to be pretty steadfast in his convictions of what he wants out of these deals, which he should be, and is willing to not deal at all if he doesnt get exactly what he wants. Even if it means we never trade Q he is probably willing to keep him and know that he didnt settle for something less. Its possible that none of these teams budge now. There will probably be a new set of teams interested by June however.