Con te Giolito Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Quintana is projected to be worth roughly $133 million in surplus value Torres or Meadows are, at best, worth roughly $72 million each in surplus value based on prospect valuation. That leaves over $60 million in additional surplus value to be accounted for in trade value...which means significantly more would have to be headed to the White Sox This surplus value stuff goes in one ear and out the other with me. I'm sorry but it feels like voodoo math with values arbitrarily assigned to players who could be massive steals for 6 years of control or a whirlpool of plate appearances for 3 years (hey Avi how you doin). Edited January 10, 2017 by Con te Giolito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:39 AM) Woah. Haha it needs to be capitalized and spelled out for their GM. This guy COULD help us out next year. Well guess what: Q will help you out. I wasn't mad that they aren't willing to include him in the deal. More mad at the logic. Edited January 10, 2017 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 SOX FANS STATUS: MAD AT ASTROS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 08:26 AM) Glasnow, Newman, and Keller easily gives the Sox the #1 system in baseball. That's a lot. Good enough to move 4 years of Q? I don't know. Newman does nothing for me but scream Gavin Cecchini / Ryan Theriot, that is not the hitting prospect i want headling the package for Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) SOX FANS STATUS: MAD AT ASTROS haha I'm not mad. I just think their logic is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) Newman does nothing for me but scream Gavin Cecchini / Ryan Theriot, that is not the hitting prospect i want headling the package for Q. Newman can stay at SS and will hit with a high .OBP. That's your prerogative though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:37 AM) The packages I would have interest in: Yankees: Torres, Rutherford, Tate, Acevedo, Freicer Perez Astros: Tucker, Martes, Reed, Laureano Pirates: Meadows, Keller, Newman, Hearn Braves: Albies, Acuna, Wentz, Fried, Luke Jackson Pretty massive value differential between those packages That Braves package is far too light compared to the rest Pirates package is solid, of each that you proposed I feel this is close to a realistic deal Astros package is also solid, but I'd like to see Perez and/or Stubbs make it in there somehow to sweeten New York package is meh. I'd rather see Andujar as a third piece, followed by Tate/Acevedo Edited January 10, 2017 by steveno89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Pretty massive value differential between those packages That Braves package is far too light compared to the rest Pirates package is solid Astros package is also solid, but I'd like to see Perez and/or Stubbs make it in there somehow to sweeten New York package is meh. I'd rather see Andujar as a third piece, followed by Tate/Acevedo Get to Googlin' the name of Mr. Ronald Acuna because him + Albies is a duo of position players that is really only topped by Torres+Frazier/Rutherford or Meadows+Bell/Newman. Then you infuse some young lefties (Sox are a little short on lefties now) with Joey Wentz and Max Fried into the system. Plus Luke Jackson who was a gas can last year but definitely a worth use of innings for a rebuilding team to see if he can figure it out and be a good bullpen piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Houston, it's time to s*** or get off the pot. Edit: I'd seriously give teams a deadline for their best offer. Once the deadline is reached and the Sox do not like the offers, shut down trade talks and plan on him being here for at least a couple months before re-opening trade talks in the summer. Unless during that time, a team offers you exactly what you want. Edited January 10, 2017 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) Get to Googlin' the name of Mr. Ronald Acuna because him + Albies is a duo of position players that is really only topped by Torres+Frazier/Rutherford or Meadows+Bell/Newman. Then you infuse some young lefties (Sox are a little short on lefties now) with Joey Wentz and Max Fried into the system. Plus Luke Jackson who was a gas can last year but definitely a worth use of innings for a rebuilding team to see if he can figure it out and be a good bullpen piece. I'm well aware of Acuna, but the risk factor in projecting a 19 year old who has never played above A ball is considerable I'd rather have prospects who are further along in their development, as Acuna won't be mlb ready until 2019/2020 best case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) http://m.pirates.mlb.com/news/article/2130.../?tcid=tw_share Seems like a weird article to pump out by a beat writer employed by the Pirates if they weren't taking a real shot at Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:50 AM) Houston, it's time to s*** or get off the pot. Edit: I'd seriously give teams a deadline for their best. Once the deadline is reached and the Sox do not like the offers, shut down trade talks and plan on him being here for at least a couple months before re-opening trade talks in the summer. Unless during that time, a team offers you exactly what you want. I'm starting to feel this way myself. But I'm also getting the impression the Astros, Pirates and Yankees simply don't value Quintana high enough to part with what needs to be parted with. If it truly requires "desperation," to get a good offer here, the show might be over until July. Luckily Rick Hahn is patient enough to wait it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:52 AM) Seems like a weird article to pump out by a beat writer employed by the Pirates if they weren't taking a real shot at Q. That's true, but at the same time, I don't consider the MLB sites great sources. But it is telling that both the Pirates and the White Sox website are talking about a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) Newman can stay at SS and will hit with a high .OBP. That's your prerogative though. The problem i see with Newman is he hits balls on the ground + does not have elite speed to compensate for it. Look at how frustrating it's been watching Avi beat baseballs into the ground. Another problem with Newman is let's say he can hit, I don't think he will hit or field well enough to move Anderson from SS which leaves 2B for Newman but the Sox already have Moncada there. Newman is fine if he's the second best hitter coming over in a trade but if he's the first I would rather keep Q or consider one of the offers from the Braves and Astros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Where are we getting he's a heavy GB% hitter? Are there any stats actually showing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:57 AM) The problem i see with Newman is he hits balls on the ground + does not have elite speed to compensate for it. Look at how frustrating it's been watching Avi beat baseballs into the ground. Another problem with Newman is let's say he can hit, I don't think he will hit or field well enough to move Anderson from SS which leaves 2B for Newman but the Sox already have Moncada there. Newman is fine if he's the second best hitter coming over in a trade but if he's the first I would rather keep Q or consider one of the offers from the Braves and Astros. Agreed. Newman sticking at SS doesn't really benefit the Sox because they already have Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 We have almost 6,000 posts between the 2 Quintana threads. Impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Some of you guys seem to be at your wits end with this Quintana round-and-round and I am right there with you, but man be thankful were not Twins fans going through this nightmare with the Dodgers for weeks and weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) Some of you guys seem to be at your wits end with this Quintana round-and-round and I am right there with you, but man be thankful were not Twins fans going through this nightmare with the Dodgers for weeks and weeks. Twins leaked out that they were accepting "final offers" last week, shows how well fake deadlines work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie for Manager Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:50 AM) The Rockies have some good young talent in their rotation. If Gray, Anderson, Chatwood and Bettis all improve this year, their rotation is actually probably ok. And this has been mentioned before in this thread, but Q is a curveball heavy pitcher. I think it's reasonable for the Rockies to be skeptical as to how that would play in Coors. He'd have to be fastball/change a LOT there. And with the prospect premium necessary to land him, given the extra risk, I think it's pretty reasonable for them to stay away on Q. Jeff Hoffman is considered to be the best of the bunch. He was supposed to be the #1 pick the Rodon draft year, prior to Tommy John his last year in college. Came back and went through the minors fairly quickly. Was the centerpiece of the Tulowitzki trade. He may be the best on the staff in the near future. Rockies prospects Hoffman #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) Some of you guys seem to be at your wits end with this Quintana round-and-round and I am right there with you, but man be thankful were not Twins fans Fixed. Being a Sox fan is rough, but Twins fans have it even worse. It seems like they've been rebuilding forever and really have nothing to show for it. Dozier is their only valuable trade chip left and they're screwed if they mess up that trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (ecupittfan @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:08 PM) Jeff Hoffman is considered to be the best of the bunch. He was supposed to be the #1 pick the Rodon draft year, prior to Tommy John his last year in college. Came back and went through the minors fairly quickly. Was the centerpiece of the Tulowitzki trade. He may be the best on the staff in the near future. Rockies prospects Hoffman #2 Hoffman is a good prospect, but still has a ways to go to prove himself. He has bounced back from injury well though. I don't see the Rockies going from a bottom 5 pitching staff, to one that can compete with the Dodgers or Giants next season without some major additions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:52 AM) Seems like a weird article to pump out by a beat writer employed by the Pirates if they weren't taking a real shot at Q. Or PR to show their fans they 'tried their best' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:10 PM) Fixed. Being a Sox fan is rough, but Twins fans have it even worse. It seems like they've been rebuilding forever and really have nothing to show for it. Dozier is their only valuable trade chip left and they're screwed if they mess up that trade. That's debatable. The Twins have some impressive young talent that a has a great deal of value (Buxton, Sano, Berrios, Kepler) . Fortunately (or unfortunately) depending on which may you want to look at it, most of that value is in young players with a good deal of cheap control. They don't have much in the way of valuable assets they're looking to trade. But yeah, I do agree that the Twins are in a pretty bad spot. / Thread jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattchoo Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 My ideal scenario remains a trade with PITT that gets Austin Meadows. He is a perfect piece for both need and value from dealing Q. I don't know how to build a fair package around him though... and I would bet the GM doesn't want to give him up. But if I'm the GM of the Sox, I'm not budging from that stance. It has to be Meadows or no deal. So... trying to be real..... If the PITT GM actually is willing to do it, what is fair? I think Meadows, Glasnow, and Newman. 1 for 3 swap. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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