Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[Bob Sacamano]

Anyone else think it is premature for Atlanta to have interest in guys they have to trade 4-5 prospects for? I feel like they should still be in the "hording as many prospects as possible" phase. Pretty crazy that their rebuild actually started what, 2 years ago? Then again, Q is under control for 4 years so I guess they can continue building around him hoping to be good for the last year or two of that deal.

Edited January 11, 2017 by soxfan2014

[BlackSox13]

Rum Bunter ‏@rumbunter 17m17 minutes ago

Rum Bunter Retweeted USABEvents

White sox fans this guy is going no where

 

This was in response to Austin Meadows being on the cover of Baseball America.

Let em keep talking, they don't have Q yet. Sad they aren't smart enough to realise that by keeping their precious Bell and Meadows off the table, they are making it easier for Houston and Atlanta to make offers that can beat Pitt's offer. Was hoping for a trade with Houston anyway and this just makes me desire that even more.

[GreatScott82]

Let em keep talking, they don't have Q yet. Sad they aren't smart enough to realise that by keeping their precious Bell and Meadows off the table, they are making it easier for Houston and Atlanta to make offers that can beat Pitt's offer. Was hoping for a trade with Houston anyway and this just makes me desire that even more.

So they have a desirable prospect who will hopefully one day be a special player in the big show. We get it.

 

The White Sox have a desirable all-star starting pitcher who is 27 years old, durable and post #s better than guys making $30 million a season. If you want something special, you need to give something special. It's that simple.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

So they have a desirable prospect who will hopefully one day be a special player in the big show. We get it.

 

The White Sox have a desirable all-star starting pitcher who is 27 years old, durable and post #s better than guys making $30 million a season. If you want something special, you need to give something special. It's that simple.

and nobody knows if Meadows and Bell will even be special. It's ridiculous that Pittsburgh isn't even willing to trade one of them.

[ptatc]

and nobody knows if Meadows and Bell will even be special. It's ridiculous that Pittsburgh isn't even willing to trade one of them.

Not when you remember they depend on their farm system to feed their MLB team with low cost players due to a very low (comparatively) budget. They can't afford to lose multiple prospects, especially ones close to the MLB. They may gain Q but in a few years they will drop to a bad team again without the constant flow of prospects. They need to maintain a team with at least a chance to make the playoffs.

 

i can see both sides. They do need Q to make a run at the WS. However, are they willing to take the chance of going back to being bad and broke with no prospects coming along.

 

This is why they want to trade Mccutchen. They can get a couple of good prospects to replenish the system while trading others for Q. It wouldn't surprise me that if McCutchen is traded, a Q trade comes shortly after.

[Con te Giolito]

Anyone else think it is premature for Atlanta to have interest in guys they have to trade 4-5 prospects for? I feel like they should still be in the "hording as many prospects as possible" phase. Pretty crazy that their rebuild actually started what, 2 years ago? Then again, Q is under control for 4 years so I guess they can continue building around him hoping to be good for the last year or two of that deal.

They're actually not as bad as you think.

[bmags]

In general though I think we are putting way too much stock in what a non-org member is saying re-who is "untouchable". No Boston blogger was saying that Moncada would be available for Sale.

 

That said, every team in on Q to this point accurately believes that no top position player has been offered yet for Q, so why be the first? There are no deadlines so they may as well see if they can wear out the sox.

[steveno89]

and nobody knows if Meadows and Bell will even be special. It's ridiculous that Pittsburgh isn't even willing to trade one of them.

 

I feel fans are too hung up on Meadows. Of course we all would like him to be in a deal, but it can get done without him.

 

We have needs all over the place, and our minor leagues badly need more depth at every position.

 

Getting something along the lines of the Scout.com proposal of:

 

Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes

 

Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana

 

The above would really help provide greater depth to a system that is pretty weak outside of the top ten prospects. Glasnow and Keller would add two arms with good upside, Holmes becomes a nice depth/5th starter option in the event of injury or a long reliever, Newman and Craig both are high OBP guys who know how to draw walks that are not too far from being mlb ready.

 

1) Moncada

2) Glasnow

3) Giolito

4) Kopech

5) Lopez

6) Newman

7) Keller

8) Collins

9) Fulmer

10) Basabe

11) Hansen

12) Burdi

13) Craig

14) Dunning

15) Adams

16) Fisher

17) Call

18) Holmes

19) Stephens

20) Tilsen

 

Whichever order you want to put it, that is a dramatically improved farm from the beginning of December. That might have 10-11 top 100 prospects, and #10-20 are significantly better than before with actual mlb upside.

Edited January 11, 2017 by steveno89

[shipps]

In general though I think we are putting way too much stock in what a non-org member is saying re-who is "untouchable". No Boston blogger was saying that Moncada would be available for Sale.

 

That said, every team in on Q to this point accurately believes that no top position player has been offered yet for Q, so why be the first? There are no deadlines so they may as well see if they can wear out the sox.

 

Yeah probably but rum bunter has seemed to have a inside on this lately so they get a little more of a reaction to saying something like that than just the regular fan club.

[Bob Sacamano]

They're actually not as bad as you think.

 

I actually kind of agree. Especially if they get a 3B and Swanson hits.

[Con te Giolito]

Its probably less about Meadows than it is about what more Hahn is demanding. That "three elite prospects" news from New York is what hangs over everything right now.

[ptatc]

I actually kind of agree. Especially if they get a 3B and Swanson hits.

They need Q and Frazier then! Let's cook up some more hypotheticals that will get the Sox more prospects.

[Balta1701]

Yeah probably but rum bunter has seemed to have a inside on this lately so they get a little more of a reaction to saying something like that than just the regular fan club.

And like i said, he can brag all he wants about the guy being on the cover of baseball America for what he'll hopefully do in AAA this year. That doesn't change the fact that the Pirates are taking a rotation with 3 second year players, a legit #1 but who was hurt much of last year, and Ivan Nova up against the Cubs and Cardinals.

[FT35]

And just to add, as most here have said before, it probably comes down to if Huntington can trade Cutch in the next couple weeks. IF Cutch isn''t getting the deal the Pirates want right now, I can't imagine they'll get a good deal after this offseason. If they can't trade him, I'm thinking Meadows ends up being the headliner in the deal because there is literally no where to play him for the next two years and they should capitalize on the roster they currently have.

 

All of this is probably factoring into why it takes a long time to work out a deal with a team like this (Pirates). So many projections need to be made and so many counter moves (not necessarily trading players) need to be made several years down the road to help offset some of the risk in making a move like this. They CAN'T be wrong about Q being the missing piece that will make them contend. If they are looking to get value from Q at some point, they are looking at a 2-year "Win now" window (to retain the value of controllability on Q's salary in the event the deal doesn't work out and they need to flip him). Even with Q, they are still at least a handful of games behind the Cubs--best case scenario, they are looking at a wild card spot. Anything can happen, but that's a BIG risk for them. Essentially mortgaging their future for a SHOT at a 1-game playoff where winning gives you a SHOT at a team like Washington on a path that will ultimately lead through the Cubs. Would you add Meadows into a deal that already likely has at least 1 MLB piece (Glasnow or Bell) to make sure you get that SHOT? They could totally decide to take that risk, but my gut says it will ultimately fall through with Pittsburgh for these types of reasons.

[ptatc]

And like i said, he can brag all he wants about the guy being on the cover of baseball America for what he'll hopefully do in AAA this year. That doesn't change the fact that the Pirates are taking a rotation with 3 second year players, a legit #1 but who was hurt much of last year, and Ivan Nova up against the Cubs and Cardinals.

From this perspective, which I agree with, does the FO of pittsburgh think Q will put them over the top and have a shot for the WS? It gives them a better chance but it is a good chance. That is really the big question. They won't sacrifice the farm system for a better chance, it needs to be a good one. If they don't believe it gives them a really good shot at the title, they won't do a trade.

[GGajewski18]

If they're not willing to give up Meadows or Bell, then give me Glasnow, Keller, Newman, Diaz, and Escobar.

[Balta1701]

Its probably less about Meadows than it is about what more Hahn is demanding. That "three elite prospects" news from New York is what hangs over everything right now.

Dude, remember that's an opening ask. That's not how negotiations work. The fact that the Yankees are telling you what the White Sox's opening ask was is much more telling. Repeating my post from yesterday.

The White Sox did exactly what they should in a negotiation where they're actually willing to move the player. When the Red Sox asked about Sale last summer, the White Sox asked for Betts + in return - that's a short way of saying "we're not actually moving the player". When the White Sox dropped their offer to Benentendi + Moncada, the Red Sox could say "no way we're giving up that price, but here's a counter offer" and their counter offer was probably low. The White Sox then pushed back, and probably after a few cycles they wound up with the deal they wanted.

 

The White Sox asked for Torres and Frazier from the Yankees, which is exactly what they should have done. They're willing to move the player. If the Yankees say yes to the first offer, you want to have gotten so much from them that you don't regret asking for more, but you don't ask for so much that the Yankees laugh at you and walk away. If you'd asked for Torres and Gary Sanchez, the Yankees would laugh and walk away. If the Yankees were actually interested in making a deal, they'd come back and reply "you can't have both of them, but we'll give you Frazier + this other player for him". The White Sox could then reply "no we don't like that other player but how about these 2 guys" and after a few cycles, something could get done.

 

That the Yankees are leaking who the White Sox asked for and saying the White Sox's price is too high suggests to me that the Yankees really aren't being pushed to go for him right now and might actually be willing to start the season with their current rotation, because you only leak that first offer if you're really not willing to negotiate.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Right now everyone is in a game of chicken to see who moves first. The interesting thing will be, if one team (hopefully it isn't the Sox) moves, will other teams quickly react. All depends on how serious some of these teams are.

[Bob Sacamano]

Not when you remember they depend on their farm system to feed their MLB team with low cost players due to a very low (comparatively) budget. They can't afford to lose multiple prospects, especially ones close to the MLB. They may gain Q but in a few years they will drop to a bad team again without the constant flow of prospects. They need to maintain a team with at least a chance to make the playoffs.

 

i can see both sides. They do need Q to make a run at the WS. However, are they willing to take the chance of going back to being bad and broke with no prospects coming along.

 

This is why they want to trade Mccutchen. They can get a couple of good prospects to replenish the system while trading others for Q. It wouldn't surprise me that if McCutchen is traded, a Q trade comes shortly after.

 

This is why I said a deal seemed so unlikely with them from the get-go even if it made sense for both teams.

 

Based on their fans' comments a few weeks ago, they felt the same way: that nothing would happen.

Edited January 11, 2017 by soxfan2014

[striker]

and nobody knows if Meadows and Bell will even be special. It's ridiculous that Pittsburgh isn't even willing to trade one of them.

Their off limits by the fans. I haven't heard anyone in the know say that is actually the case.

[ptatc]

This is why I said a deal seemed so unlikely with them from the get-go even if it made sense for both teams.

 

Based on their fans' comments a few weeks ago, they felt the same way: that nothing would happen.

Logical. It's a big risk for a team reliant on the farm system.

[Soha]

Not when you remember they depend on their farm system to feed their MLB team with low cost players due to a very low (comparatively) budget. They can't afford to lose multiple prospects, especially ones close to the MLB. They may gain Q but in a few years they will drop to a bad team again without the constant flow of prospects. They need to maintain a team with at least a chance to make the playoffs.

 

i can see both sides. They do need Q to make a run at the WS. However, are they willing to take the chance of going back to being bad and broke with no prospects coming along.

 

This is why they want to trade Mccutchen. They can get a couple of good prospects to replenish the system while trading others for Q. It wouldn't surprise me that if McCutchen is traded, a Q trade comes shortly after.

 

They depend on their farm system - but the thing with Quintana though - is you won't ever get a pitcher of his caliber for his dollars. Even a homegrown pitcher, by the time they take their lumps and bruises in the big leagues and get it together, they won't be making as little as Q makes the next 4 years. And that's on the off chance that they are as good as Quintana is.

 

To me, he would be a rare exception where he would be worth parting with some top prospects in exchange for - including and maybe even especially for lower income teams that normally don't want to part with their prospects.

[Jake]

I think a return of Glasnow, Keller, Newman, and Diaz is not something that you would want to shut the door on. I suspect that is something that Pirates are not yet comfortable with, actually.

[harfman77]

Anyone else think it is premature for Atlanta to have interest in guys they have to trade 4-5 prospects for? I feel like they should still be in the "hording as many prospects as possible" phase. Pretty crazy that their rebuild actually started what, 2 years ago? Then again, Q is under control for 4 years so I guess they can continue building around him hoping to be good for the last year or two of that deal.

 

No, this has been their plan all along. They have been amassing prospects to fill their ML roster and then trade to improve it so that they can be competitive once their new stadium opens this spring. They are not really that far away from competing in that division if Dansby performs as expected. A rotation of Teheran, Q, Folty, Garcia, Colon/Dickey will keep them hanging around this year, but they will need to upgrade 2B/3B sometime to really be contenders.

[southsider2k5]

Their off limits by the fans. I haven't heard anyone in the know say that is actually the case.

 

If Meadows was on the table, I think a deal would have been done a long time ago.