Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[Bob Sacamano]

It is somewhat annoying that there are not many stupid organizations left in Baseball. 10 years ago some team like the brewers would be inexplicably involved because "you need an ace"

 

Yeah it sucks that so many teams value their top prospects so much more now. Before it seemed like you would see so many blockbuster trades around the trade deadline and during winter meetings.

[Bob Sacamano]

http://dawindycity.com/2017/01/12/chicago-...x-three-trades/

 

What do you guys think about these proposals?

 

Sox Asking price for Quintana is currently "3 Elite Prospects" =

 

Yankees: Frazier (OF), Torres (SS), and Judge (OF)

 

Pirates: Glasnow (RHP), Meadows (OF), and Diaz ©

 

Astros: Reed (1B), Martes (RHP), and Tucker (OF)

 

Rockies: Rodgers (SS/2B), Jeff Hoffman (RHP), and Tapia (OF)

 

 

 

Todd Frazier

 

Athletics: Holmes (RHP) and Chapman (3B)

 

Braves: Sean Newcomb (LHP) and Kolby Allard (LHP)

 

I don't see either of these deals as being realistic for one season of Frazier

 

Abreu to the Rockies

 

Rockies: Riley Pint (RHP) and Tom Murphy ©

 

I don't love that deal for the White Sox.

 

Thoughts?

 

I really love that Rockies, Pirates and Yankees one for Q. I would probably take either of those deals for Frazier. Probably no on the Abreu one.

Edited January 12, 2017 by soxfan2014

[steveno89]

Yeah it sucks that so many teams value their top prospects so much more now. Before it seemed like you would see so many blockbuster trades around the trade deadline and during winter meetings.

 

It's largely due to how expensive free agency has gotten

 

Cheap seasons of young major league talent is very valuable vs. shelling out in free agency

 

Many will disagree, but I tend to side on the proven major league talent almost always being superior in value to prospects. Quintana is a proven a well above average mlb starting pitcher, and his 4 seasons of control warrant 3 elite prospects

 

 

[steveno89]

I really love that Rockies, Pirates and Yankees one for Q. I would probably take either of those deals for Frazier. Probably no on the Abreu one.

 

I like the Yankees, Pirates and Rockies (not in that order necessarily)

 

Newcomb and Allard for Frazier would be a huge return that I don't see happening

 

Holmes and Chapman is a decent package. Chapman has huge power, but contact concerns. Holmes had a down 2016.

[Bob Sacamano]

It's largely due to how expensive free agency has gotten

 

Cheap seasons of young major league talent is very valuable vs. shelling out in free agency

 

Many will disagree, but I tend to side on the proven major league talent almost always being superior in value to prospects. Quintana is a proven a well above average mlb starting pitcher, and his 4 seasons of control warrant 3 elite prospects

 

True.

[Dam8610]

Am I the only one who hates Judge, thinks he's nearly guaranteed to bust, and thinks that the likelihood of him busting only increases if he joins the White Sox organization? Honestly, I'd prefer Andujar to him.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Dam8610

[steveno89]

Am I the only one who hates Judge, thinks he's nearly guaranteed to bust, and thinks that the likelihood of him busting only increases if he joins the White Sox organization? Honestly, I'd prefer Andujar to him.

 

I am not a Judge fan really. I'd prefer Rutherford as a third piece in a Yankees deal

 

I don't see New York being willing to deal Torres + Frazier + Judge/Rutherford/Mateo/Kaprellian/Sheffield for Quintana though

 

I see mlb pitches eating Judge's 6'7" 275 lb strike zone alive, resulting in loads of strikeouts

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by steveno89

[Bob Sacamano]

I am not a Judge fan really. I'd prefer Rutherford as a third piece in a Yankees deal

 

I don't see New York being willing to deal Torres + Frazier + Judge/Rutherford/Mateo/Kaprellian/Sheffield for Quintana though

 

I see mlb pitches eating Judge's 6'7" 275 lb strike zone alive, resulting in loads of strikeouts

 

I doubt they would be willing to deal Torres and Frazier in one deal honestly.

[Bob Sacamano]

Am I the only one who hates Judge, thinks he's nearly guaranteed to bust, and thinks that the likelihood of him busting only increases if he joins the White Sox organization? Honestly, I'd prefer Andujar to him.

 

 

I am not a Judge fan really. I'd prefer Rutherford as a third piece in a Yankees deal

 

I see mlb pitches eating Judge's 6'7" 275 lb strike zone alive, resulting in loads of strikeouts

 

I would take the deal due to getting Torres and Frazier back. Judge would be a guy we could start in the OF right away and see if he can hit, but the other 2 would be the prizes in the proposed deal (though I think very unlikely).

[whitesoxfan99]

http://dawindycity.com/2017/01/12/chicago-...x-three-trades/

 

What do you guys think about these proposals?

 

Sox Asking price for Quintana is currently "3 Elite Prospects" =

 

Yankees: Frazier (OF), Torres (SS), and Judge (OF)

 

Pirates: Glasnow (RHP), Meadows (OF), and Diaz ©

 

Astros: Reed (1B), Martes (RHP), and Tucker (OF)

 

Rockies: Rodgers (SS/2B), Jeff Hoffman (RHP), and Tapia (OF)

 

 

 

Todd Frazier

 

Athletics: Holmes (RHP) and Chapman (3B)

 

Braves: Sean Newcomb (LHP) and Kolby Allard (LHP)

 

I don't see either of these deals as being realistic for one season of Frazier

 

Abreu to the Rockies

 

Rockies: Riley Pint (RHP) and Tom Murphy ©

 

I don't love that deal for the White Sox.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Those proposed Frazier deals are insanity. You would be lucky to get 1 top 100 prospect for him. You sure as hell aren't getting 2.

[steveno89]

Those proposed Frazier deals are insanity. You would be lucky to get 1 top 100 prospect for him. You sure as hell aren't getting 2.

 

The Newcomb and Allard deal is insane

 

The Holmes and Chapman less so, as Holmes had a pretty rough 2016

 

and Chapman's hit tool is big time in question. I see mlb pitching eating him alive with his minor league strikeout numbers.

 

Chapman and Gallo are similar in my mind. Both guys who have huge power, but can't hit well enough to make it play at the mlb level

Edited January 12, 2017 by steveno89

[tray]

If I could put Hahn's hat on I would take the following options, if they would be offered for Q, in this order:

 

1. Astros: Bregman , (and I might include another player from the Sox to get Breg, like Frazier)

2. Yankees : Frazier, Torres (don't need Diaz) (I would also trade Frazier to them if they wanted him for another prospect)

3. Pirates: Meadows, Keller (I'd throw in Avi Garcia, lol,) Please no Josh "Tank II" Bell.

4. If none of the above (which increasingly apapears to be the case) wait to trade Quintana for another day.

 

In the meantime, I would try to reacquire Tray Thompson from the Dodgers.

 

 

Edited to add: Frazier and/or Melky might be useful for the Yankees or one of the other teams, a and might possibly put one of these deals over the top.

Edited January 12, 2017 by miracleon35th

[Chicago White Sox]

If I could put Hahn's hat on I would take the following options, if they would be offered for Q, in this order:

 

1. Astros: Bregman , (and I might include another player from the Sox to get Breg, like Frazier)

2. Yankees : Frazier, Torres (don't need Diaz) (I would also trade Frazier to them if they wanted him for another prospect)

3. Pirates: Meadows, Keller (I'd throw in Avi Garcia, lol,) Please no Josh "Tank II" Bell.

4. If none of the above (which increasingly apapears to be the case) wait to trade Quintana for another day.

 

In the meantime, I would try to reacquire Tray Thompson from the Dodgers.

 

 

Edited to add: Frazier and/or Melky might be useful for the Yankees or one of the other teams, a and might possibly put one of these deals over the top.

Did you just compare Josh Bell to Dayan Viciedo? Holy f*** is that a terrible comparison.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Did you just compare Josh Bell to Dayan Viciedo? Holy f*** is that a terrible comparison.

lol they're completely different players.

[Eminor3rd]

I would love to get an offensive monster type production out of second base as long as he can be at least average defensively. You move him to 3rd or center it drops his offensive value down a notch in my book.

 

I am firmly on the "Moncada to CF" train. If we're doing clubs, I'll be the leader. Reasoning:

 

1. 2B is trending toward an offense-first position. I've read that this is because as teams all get better a shifting, 2B is becoming much easier to play.

 

2. The word on Moncada appears to be something like elite speed, plus arm, below-average hands, poor footwork. That sounds a lot like Billy Hamilton with a better arm (and probably a little less speed), and seeing how becoming a CFer literally turned him from a fringey bench piece into a solid starter.

 

3. The bat plays anywhere; I'll take it from a potentially elite CF instead of a hopefully passable 2B all day, every day.

[bmags]

10 years ago the idea of calling Quintana an ace would bring you ridicule.

 

Is that so? I feel like ERA dominated even more, as well as the term ace being thrown around for any #1.

 

To prove my point, I googled "detroit ace jeremy bonderman" and sure enough a cbssports writeup wrote this:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/gametracker/r...0050514_ANA@DET

 

"he Los Angeles Angels were trying to figure out how to beat Detroit Tigers ace Jeremy Bonderman."

 

I feel like analytics have further refined ace discussion, though I acknowledge mbinaa was a 10 year old topic.

[BlackSox13]

I don't honestly care which position they put him at, I believe he's athletic enough to play both. However, if you want to get me annoyed and complaining, the way to do that is to change course midway. All that matters to me is the team picks the best position they think will work for him defensively and physically, puts him there, and starts coaching him there. No creative moving him around, no brilliant ideas about him being a super utility guy, no comparisons to Baez, just put him at a position and find someone to tell him how to put his feet and read balls off the bat.

Same here, not interested in watching Moncada getting moved around like Alexei was. Sounds as though the Sox are going to utilize Moncada at second which sounds good since he said he is more comfortable there.

[Saufley]

I don't honestly care which position they put him at, I believe he's athletic enough to play both. However, if you want to get me annoyed and complaining, the way to do that is to change course midway. All that matters to me is the team picks the best position they think will work for him defensively and physically, puts him there, and starts coaching him there. No creative moving him around, no brilliant ideas about him being a super utility guy, no comparisons to Baez, just put him at a position and find someone to tell him how to put his feet and read balls off the bat.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I just recently read about a mini camp we held in Arizona? If so, was Moncada there and was he playing a specific position?

 

[bmags]

I am not really sure how that proves your point. Was Jeremy Bonderman the best pitcher on a Tigers' team that was averaging 95 losses a year? Yes. Was he in ace? No. He also won 14 games in back to back years which was very relevant to a discussion on aces in 2004. Quintana is a career .500 pitcher who before this year never won double digit amount of games.

 

end derail/

 

Ah, I get what you are saying. I could see Quintana's win total sinking him and you are right I have not seen that mentioned once in evaluating Quintana this year. Bonderman was just to show how much more "ace" was thrown around for #1 team pitcher then compared to now. It's amusing to see it used in reference to a pitcher with a near 5 era that year.

[bmags]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I just recently read about a mini camp we held in Arizona? If so, was Moncada there and was he playing a specific position?

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213231944/yo...ls-at-minicamp/

 

Here is Merkin on the mini camp.

 

Most of Merk's reporting was on hitting done, but I saw one video of I think Davidson taking grounders at 3rd. Didn't see anything referencing position.

[harfman77]

If I could put Hahn's hat on I would take the following options, if they would be offered for Q, in this order:

 

1. Astros: Bregman , (and I might include another player from the Sox to get Breg, like Frazier)

2. Yankees : Frazier, Torres (don't need Diaz) (I would also trade Frazier to them if they wanted him for another prospect)

3. Pirates: Meadows, Keller (I'd throw in Avi Garcia, lol,) Please no Josh "Tank II" Bell.

4. If none of the above (which increasingly apapears to be the case) wait to trade Quintana for another day.

 

In the meantime, I would try to reacquire Tray Thompson from the Dodgers.

 

 

Edited to add: Frazier and/or Melky might be useful for the Yankees or one of the other teams, a and might possibly put one of these deals over the top.

 

If Hahn trades Q for anyone straight up, he deserves to be fired on the spot. Why would the Sox trade Q for a player that is worse? For all we know Alex Bregman turns into Gordon Beckham, Q has been a model of consistency and is team controlled long term. That would be an epic fail. Even if Bregman turns into Evan Longoria, replacing one high value player for another doesn't get this team in a position to compete.

[harfman77]

I actually really doubt this. Too much going on over too long of a period. It's going to be one of the Pirates, Braves, Astros or Yankees. Other than that, Dodgers, Rangers and Rockies are the outsiders. Can't really make an argument for the other 22 teams.

 

I think there are a couple others out there. The Cubs, Cardinals, and Dbacks have a need and the prospects to get a deal done.

[steveno89]

If Hahn trades Q for anyone straight up, he deserves to be fired on the spot. Why would the Sox trade Q for a player that is worse? For all we know Alex Bregman turns into Gordon Beckham, Q has been a model of consistency and is team controlled long term. That would be an epic fail. Even if Bregman turns into Evan Longoria, replacing one high value player for another doesn't get this team in a position to compete.

 

Totally agreed. No way we deal Quintana for just one player, even bregman.

 

Far to risky in the event that player busts or gets injured.

 

I want a package of at least three players

[steveno89]

I think there are a couple others out there. The Cubs, Cardinals, and Dbacks have a need and the prospects to get a deal done.

 

How do the cardinals or dbacks have the prospects??

[harfman77]

How do the cardinals or dbacks have the prospects??

 

Dbacks have young pitching, while technically not prospects anymore, Shipley, Walker, and Bradley all are still really good young arms with upside.

 

The Dbacks have the (now) best pitching prospect in baseball in Reyes and enough depth behind him to get a deal done.

 

A deal of Reyes, Weaver, Perez and Kelly would rival anything we have seen speculated from the Pirates.