Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[Balta1701]

They won 84 games last year and they are essentially adding McCann, Beltran, Reddick, Bregman, and Gurriell to their lineup. The last 2 were on the team for the stretch run last year, but adding those 5 to your lineup for a full year is no joke. If Kuechle and McCullers are healthy I dint think 90 wins is crazy at all.

They also got a couple of WAR out of Valbuena, a career year out of of Altuve and you never know if a guy will repeat a career year, McCann was worth 1.3 WAR while Jason Castro was worth 1.1, Colby Rasmus was a positive player for them, Evan Gattis put up 2 WAR for them mostly while playing C (weaker when he was DH).

 

Yes, that lineup is no joke. Correa will probably take another step forward. They added some big names, but those big names are replaciing a number of guys who were decent performers already. And on top of that, their whole division other than the Rangers are better on paper than they were last year, and the Rangers aren't bad either. That division has 4 teams that could be above .500 depending on injuries.

 

If I were a fan of theirs I'd be screaming for starting pitching. It might hold up, but like I keep saying, good luck. It fails, I won't be shedding any tears.

[Mattchoo]

Bac to the Astros. AJ Reed is surely blocked now. Sox scouts agree on him as the third piece, they still should be able to get a deal done. Four players in total. Tucker as the centerpiece, once again the scouts are making the call on him.

 

What is the second piece?

[Con te Giolito]

They have a pretty good offense too, and their bullpen is solid as well. I think they'd be able to make the playoffs. Quintana would certainly help, but I don't see him as a necessity.

Right now with Jose Quintana still on the White Sox the only AL rotation that I can safely say the Astros are 100% better than is Minnesota. If you can make a counter argument to that I'd like to hear it. The only pitcher of theirs I have confidence in from a health standpoint is Colin McHugh (who isn't very good).

 

They won 84 games last year and they are essentially adding McCann, Beltran, Reddick, Bregman, and Gurriell to their lineup. The last 2 were on the team for the stretch run last year, but adding those 5 to your lineup for a full year is no joke. If Kuechle and McCullers are healthy I dint think 90 wins is crazy at all.

None of their offseason acquisitions are that impressive. What makes Josh Reddick better than Melky Cabrera when the Sox signed Melky two years ago? How easily can you picture an alternate reality where Kenny Williams goes ALL IN again by signing Beltran and trading for McCann?

 

I'm not gonna talk too much s*** about Gurriel and Bregman. Those are not bad players to be plugging in to patch holes and are much, much better options than McCann and Beltran.

[Con te Giolito]

What is the second piece?

Franklin Perez or Francis Martes probably.

[BlackSox13]

I think the Astros are pushing things one year ahead of time. They really should have used the '17 season as a development year to see how young pitchers like McCullers, Musgrove, Paulino, Martes and hitters Bregman, Gurriel, Reed, Fisher, Hernandez progress. Then they would know what they had going into next winter when there will be plenty of FA pitching and hitting available and could dangle P.Tucker and Springer to get them some pitching. With what they have on their 40 man roster now along with what they have on the farm that could come up this season, they could have a wicked young core of hitters and pitchers for many years to come. Signing Reddick and Beltran took ab's away from hitters they are reluctant to trade.

 

But hey, cheers to the Astros going for it because I think they know they need stability in their rotation so in the end they really have to part with a few pieces they may not want to part with to get Q.

 

Now that I think about it, all that s*** can be said about the Pirates and their young talent so cheers to them for being in need of pitching too.

 

Now, would one of those teams drop their knickers already and give it up.

[bmags]

Right now with Jose Quintana still on the White Sox the only AL rotation that I can safely say the Astros are 100% better than is Minnesota. If you can make a counter argument to that I'd like to hear it. The only pitcher of theirs I have confidence in from a health standpoint is Colin McHugh (who isn't very good).

 

 

None of their offseason acquisitions are that impressive. What makes Josh Reddick better than Melky Cabrera when the Sox signed Melky two years ago? How easily can you picture an alternate reality where Kenny Williams goes ALL IN again by signing Beltran and trading for McCann?

 

I'm not gonna talk too much s*** about Gurriel and Bregman. Those are not bad players to be plugging in to patch holes and are much, much better options than McCann and Beltran.

 

Last year with Chris Sale the white Sox starting pitchers were worse than houstons in runs per game.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...-pitching.shtml

[caulfield12]

I think the Astros are pushing things one year ahead of time. They really should have used the '17 season as a development year to see how young pitchers like McCullers, Musgrove, Paulino, Martes and hitters Bregman, Gurriel, Reed, Fisher, Hernandez progress. Then they would know what they had going into next winter when there will be plenty of FA pitching and hitting available and could dangle P.Tucker and Springer to get them some pitching. With what they have on their 40 man roster now along with what they have on the farm that could come up this season, they could have a wicked young core of hitters and pitchers for many years to come. Signing Reddick and Beltran took ab's away from hitters they are reluctant to trade.

 

But hey, cheers to the Astros going for it because I think they know they need stability in their rotation so in the end they really have to part with a few pieces they may not want to part with to get Q.

 

Now that I think about it, all that s*** can be said about the Pirates and their young talent so cheers to them for being in need of pitching too.

 

Now, would one of those teams drop their knickers already and give it up.

 

Except Preston Tucker, Reed and Marisnick all have lower value now...and there's no clear CFer.

Singleton and Grossman were flops with Houston. That has been determined, at least.

 

If anything, 2015 pushed the 2017 Astros/Cubs timetable up by one year. But yeah, they're short at least one quality pitcher, and two if McCullers can't stay healthy.

 

They look a lot like the 2016 Blue Jays right now.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Cameron's comment about Q being the most expensive #4 starter in history. What is he smoking? Terribly off base with that comment.

 

The person asking the question was posing a hypothetical that Quintana has regressed by the year 2020 (4 seasons from now, age 32) to become a #4 starter for the Sox, and asking Cameron if that wouldn't be worth having. And Cameron, using his hypothetical, is saying the opportunity cost lost by holding on to a depreciating asset for 4 years before ever getting value out if it is a waste, because of the talent you could have acquired and groomed in the meantime.

 

Makes perfect sense and trust me, Cameron and Fangraphs are a big supporter of Quintana.

[steveno89]

Franklin Perez or Francis Martes probably.

 

I've been saying a martes, tucker, reed and perez package could work for both sides.

 

Reed is blocked and his stock is down. Perez would be a very nice final piece.

 

Neither martes or Tucker is a good enough prospect to headline a deal by themselves

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Tucker/Martes/Reed/Laureano/Stubbs

 

That is the package I want for Q.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Tucker/Martes/Reed/Laureano/Stubbs

 

That is the package I want for Q.

 

I would take that, and toss in Jennings for them.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

So, is this thing any closer to a resolution or is this dragging on until ST?

[Bob Sacamano]

So, is this thing any closer to a resolution or is this dragging on until ST?

 

Doesn't appear any closer to resolution. No idea when it will drag out until.

[flavum]

So, is this thing any closer to a resolution or is this dragging on until ST?

 

It's anyone's guess. My guess...50/50 he's traded before Soxfest. 75% chance he's gone before Feb. 14.

[BlackSox13]

Except Preston Tucker, Reed and Marisnick all have lower value now...and there's no clear CFer.

Singleton and Grossman were flops with Houston. That has been determined, at least.

 

If anything, 2015 pushed the 2017 Astros/Cubs timetable up by one year. But yeah, they're short at least one quality pitcher, and two if McCullers can't stay healthy.

 

They look a lot like the 2016 Blue Jays right now.

It's not about prospect value this year, it's about giving their highly coveted youth another year to develop and potentially fill holes between now and next winter. It's a moot point since the Astros are going for it anyway, it's just a year early imo.

[soxforlife05]

If they've held out this long I have to believe they are going to get a fleecing the likes of the Eaton deal eventually.

[hi8is]

If they've held out this long I have to believe they are going to get a fleecing the likes of the Eaton deal eventually.

Equivalent would be ( roughly speaking in loose ass relative terms that are actually meaningless ) a teams #1, #3, and 2016 first rounder...

 

Astros:

Martes

Paulino

Whitley

 

( would have to think one of those three would be subbed out for Tucker ).

 

Yankees:

Frazier

Mateo

Rutherford

 

( my obvious choice. )

 

Pirates:

Glasnow

Bell

Craig

 

( again, would have to think they sub out one of those top two for Meadows. )

 

Ya. So there. Let it be so.

 

And f*** this speculation.

Edited January 8, 2017 by hi8is

[SoxSteve]

If they've held out this long I have to believe they are going to get a fleecing the likes of the Eaton deal eventually.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/cubs...oEFhlX5glw.97,,, i would take HAPP, JIMENEZ AND DYLAN CEASE FOR QUINTANA. DEAL!!!!! I might take Happ and Jiminez alone and be happy. Below is what was written a couple days ago about the Cubs from baseball america. If they don't get Ross who knows. Quintana to the a Cubs helps out both teams and makes the most sense.

a

 

Sent from my iPadIan Happ (Photo by Bill Mitchell)

CHICAGO—The Cubs spent four years building a farm system that helped them reach the top of the heap. Now they plan to use it to acquire what they need to stay there.

 

“Look, we knew this day was coming,” president of baseball operations Theo Epstein said after the Cubs traded one of this front office’s original core prospects, young slugger Jorge Soler, to get acquire closer Wade Davis at the Winter Meetings.

 

“One of the reasons we’ve invested heavily in position players in the draft, international markets and trades is because they’re good bets to return value,” he said. “We’ve identified a core of guys we really believe in, who have gotten here and helped us win a championship already.

 

“And we feel like some of our prospects have a chance to join that core, but other ones we’re going to end up trading. That was part of the plan all along.”

 

The 2017 Opening Day lineup could include five young position players either acquired as prospects or drafted by the Cubs: first baseman Anthony Rizzo, third baseman Kris Bryant, left fielder Kyle Schwarber, shortstop Addison Russell and center fielder Albert Almora.

 

But the system hasn’t come close to producing an impact pitcher. Following the 2017 season, Jake Arrieta, John Lackey and Davis could be free agents.

 

Chicago parted with top prospect Gleyber Torres in July when they traded him to the Yankees for Aroldis Chapman. Prospects such as outfielder Eloy Jimenez and 2015 first-rounder Ian Happ could be on deck.

 

“You can’t necessarily develop all your position players and all your pitchers both homegrown,” Epstein said. “And the plan all along was to take some of the position players and turn them into pitchers . . .

 

“Over the next couple of years, we’ll certainly make more trades where we say goodbye to some position players who are hard to part with but bring us the pitching we need.”

 

CUBBYHOLE

 

• Ben Carhart, a catcher and first baseman who was part of Epstein’s first Cubs draft class in 2012, has retired and will become rehab coach in the Rookie-level Arizona League.

 

• Former big leaguers Desi Wilson and Mariano Duncan move up from Double-A and high Class A hitting coach jobs, respectively, to share Triple-A Iowa hitting coach duties.

 

 

Read more at

[Quin]

I need Baez in any deal with the Cubs.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Let's say the Cubs hypothetically offered Eloy, Happ, Candelario, and a lottery ticket for Q. Would you take it?

[Dam8610]

Let's say the Cubs hypothetically offered Eloy, Happ, Candelario, and a lottery ticket for Q. Would you take it?

 

No, because to trade with the Cubs, especially to send them an asset like Q that they desperately need to keep that contention window pried open as long as possible, you have to win that trade in such a way that people think the price Rizzo paid for Eaton was a bargain comparatively. Sending them Q as opposed to any other NL team or any AL team not in the Central hurts the franchise's earning potential more, so the Cubs would have to pay for that on top of paying for Q's production and contract.

[OmarComing25]

It's not about prospect value this year, it's about giving their highly coveted youth another year to develop and potentially fill holes between now and next winter. It's a moot point since the Astros are going for it anyway, it's just a year early imo.

Why is it a year early? The general consensus is that they are the favorites to win the West. And I can't say I disagree, they have flaws but their division rivals have more.

[beautox]

Tucker/Martes/Reed/Laureano/Stubbs

 

That is the package I want for Q.

 

 

I would take that, and toss in Jennings for them.

 

I agree and like that package a lot and they get some additional value in Jennings for significantly less than what Dunn just signed with the rox. Jennings would've been their 5th best reliever last year behind Devenski, Harris, Giles & Gregerson. They lack a solid lefty out of the pen as Sipp was terrible last year.

[BlackSox13]

I think the Astros are pushing things one year ahead of time. They really should have used the '17 season as a development year to see how young pitchers like McCullers, Musgrove, Paulino, Martes and hitters Bregman, Gurriel, Reed, Fisher, Hernandez progress. Then they would know what they had going into next winter when there will be plenty of FA pitching and hitting available and could dangle P.Tucker and Springer to get them some pitching. With what they have on their 40 man roster now along with what they have on the farm that could come up this season, they could have a wicked young core of hitters and pitchers for many years to come. Signing Reddick and Beltran took ab's away from hitters they are reluctant to trade.

 

But hey, cheers to the Astros going for it because I think they know they need stability in their rotation so in the end they really have to part with a few pieces they may not want to part with to get Q.

 

Now that I think about it, all that s*** can be said about the Pirates and their young talent so cheers to them for being in need of pitching too.

 

Now, would one of those teams drop their knickers already and give it up.

 

 

Why is it a year early? The general consensus is that they are the favorites to win the West. And I can't say I disagree, they have flaws but their division rivals have more.

My post above explains where im coming from.

[Con te Giolito]

The Cubs have nothing (including Baez) that matches Torres, Bregman or Meadows. They only way they match that kind of headliner is with Schwarber and that is flat out not hapening. If talks reach a point where one of those headliners won't be available then fine, let them join the bidding.