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Sox holding talks "daily" on Q


Sleepy Harold

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So there will be a lot more pitching available next year. Cubs do not need or are desperate to have Quintana this year. The reason q will get a haul is because of the favorable market. There's no pressure for cubs to pull trigger on trade that big. Has nothing to do with Hahn getting over trading with the cubs.

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Yeah the Cubs have 2 of the top 20 hitting prospects in the game, don't know how you'd write them off. Jimenez, Happ, and Cease + a lotto ticket would compete with just about any teams offer if the Cubs wanted to do it...could probably even replace Cease for Clifton and it would still be a really good offer.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 08:19 AM)
So there will be a lot more pitching available next year. Cubs do not need or are desperate to have Quintana this year. The reason q will get a haul is because of the favorable market. There's no pressure for cubs to pull trigger on trade that big. Has nothing to do with Hahn getting over trading with the cubs.

I agree that market conditions might drive a better deal for the White Sox, but Mercedes sell well even amidst competitors.

 

A better market for pitching is not going to displace the type of value Q provides irregardless of a more liquid market.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:32 AM)
Pretty crazy the Cubs were able to sign both Jimenez & Torres in the same class. They were the #1 & #3 ranked prospects according MLB.com. The #2 was none other than Micker Adolfo. Funny that the one time we were able to land a big fish in Latin America it turns out to be the wrong guy.

 

Is it the wrong guy or an indictment on the White Sox ability to develop young hitters?

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:39 AM)
Is it the wrong guy or an indictment on the White Sox ability to develop young hitters?

Yeah, that's probably a good call. And beyond our organization's weakness with development, Micker has lost a ton of time due to injuries. Regardless, it still makes me sick seeing those other two names shoot up the rankings while Adalfo's prospect status sours.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:48 AM)
Yeah, that's probably a good call. And beyond our organization's weakness with development, Micker has lost a ton of time due to injuries. Regardless, it still makes me sick seeing those other two names shoot up the rankings while Adalfo's prospect status sours.

 

It sucks, but at the same time, he's still young enough that a big season will shoot him up prospect rankings almost immediately. He was 19 in A ball this year, and even though he was not good, it still says something that they were comfortable enough to let him do that.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:30 AM)
I agree that market conditions might drive a better deal for the White Sox, but Mercedes sell well even amidst competitors.

 

A better market for pitching is not going to displace the type of value Q provides irregardless of a more liquid market.

 

My point is that the cubs do not really make sense as a suitor when we are talking about he prices we are. All of the actual teams rumored have a need for Q this year, they have urgency. The cubs need for q is justified for giving them low cost starter for the years 2018-19-20. But that would only be a smart move if Quintana was being sold off at a discount. At the full cost of prospects for Q, it makes way more sense for cubs to just wait a year and figure it out then. They certainly wouldn't trade off Baez just to smooth their pitching out in two years.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:32 AM)
Pretty crazy the Cubs were able to sign both Jimenez & Torres in the same class. They were the #1 & #3 ranked prospects according MLB.com. The #2 was none other than Micker Adolfo. Funny that the one time we were able to land a big fish in Latin America it turns out to be the wrong guy.

Yes, Im shocked, SHOCKED that the same geniuses that picked Mitchell instead of Trout would have gotten this wrong!

 

As an aside, color me unimpressed with this org's/Marco Paddy's work hereto fore. While other orgs reap the benefits of the international market, FIVE YEARS after him coming on board, I don't recall any of his signings having made it above AA. (And no, I don't consider a vet like Abreu to be the same as a youngster in the international market.)

 

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:39 AM)
Is it the wrong guy or an indictment on the White Sox ability to develop young hitters?

I think this is an indictment on this org's scouting priorities in the past. It's been toolsy athlete types, or raw power strikeout losers or speedy types that had been prioritized for the majority of KWs tenure.

 

To me, it seems academic: Get guys that don't make outs, instead of strikeout losers or speedy types or kids who look good in a uniform. Get actual baseball players to play baseball.

 

Now, Hostetler smartly (and @ long last) prioritized OBP, and finally, it looks like there may be a few pieces in the pipeline. Here's hoping this continues, and that they prioritize OBP in player acquisition.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 09:36 AM)
The Cubs have nothing (including Baez) that matches Torres, Bregman or Meadows. They only way they match that kind of headliner is with Schwarber and that is flat out not hapening. If talks reach a point where one of those headliners won't be available then fine, let them join the bidding.

 

The Cubs could have a deal done today without dealing a single major leaguer.

 

A deal of something like Jimenez, Happ, Candelario, and Eddy Martinez? That is pretty much as good as any other team could offer, and it would explode our system with legitimate superstar position prospects.

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The Cubs could have a deal done today without dealing a single major leaguer.

 

A deal of something like Jimenez, Happ, Candelario, and Eddy Martinez? That is pretty much as good as any other team could offer, and it would explode our system with legitimate superstar position prospects.

Yankees could beat that offer in their sleep without even including Torres. Astros probably could too. Pirates would have to include Meadows, but if they were to put him in the deal I'm taking that package over that Cubs proposal.

 

I'm not saying the Cubs don't have the bullets to get Quintana without including a major leaguer, but if one of the potential suitors already rumored become motivated buyers willing to move their top guys the Cubs won't be able to compete with their offers without including Schwarber.

 

 

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 11:31 AM)
The Cubs could have a deal done today without dealing a single major leaguer.

 

A deal of something like Jimenez, Happ, Candelario, and Eddy Martinez? That is pretty much as good as any other team could offer, and it would explode our system with legitimate superstar position prospects.

Agreed. I would happily take 2 top 50's and a top 100 + flier for Q. Happ and Candelario are blocked at the ML level and Jimenez is a few years away so none of those three fit into the cubs immediate future plans. Heck, with Schwarber in LF and Zobrist at 2B they will have a tough time finding atbats for Baez unless they try Baez in CF.

 

The Sox and cubs match up for a trade really well, on paper that is. With Lackey a FA after '17 and Arietta looking like he will test the FA market himself after the '17 season, kicking the tires on a cheap front line starter such as Q would be a smart move.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:48 AM)
Yeah, that's probably a good call. And beyond our organization's weakness with development, Micker has lost a ton of time due to injuries. Regardless, it still makes me sick seeing those other two names shoot up the rankings while Adalfo's prospect status sours.

 

It sucks, but what's new? This franchise has been cursed in developing hitters. We have not developed one single position player in the last 16 years. It's really an incredible feat when you come to think about it and how many good hitters has played in the MLB in that time span, and none of those were developed by the Sox. It also hurts to see some of our mid tier prospects got traded away and found success with another org, guys like Chris Young, Chris Carter, and Paulo Orlando, maybe we'll even be sour with Tatis Jr. a few years down the road.

Edited by 2005thxfrthmmrs
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QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:19 AM)
So there will be a lot more pitching available next year. Cubs do not need or are desperate to have Quintana this year. The reason q will get a haul is because of the favorable market. There's no pressure for cubs to pull trigger on trade that big. Has nothing to do with Hahn getting over trading with the cubs.

 

There's no pressure for next year, but in the big picture perhaps there is? There will not be a pitcher of Quintana's quality on that type of contract available next year. Theoretically, if they made a deal for Q, the money saved could allow them to re-sign Arrieta?

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There's no pressure for next year, but in the big picture perhaps there is? There will not be a pitcher of Quintana's quality on that type of contract available next year. Theoretically, if they made a deal for Q, the money saved could allow them to re-sign Arrieta?

I don't think they are interested in re-signing Arrieta, but that's just my gut. It won't be for lack of money though, they are already swimming in it and these ticket hikes aren't going to dampen demand one bit.

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The Cubs have made it known that they've been searching for cost-controlled starters for awhile. Arrieta is a likely goner next year, as well as Lackey. Plus Lester isn't getting any younger despite still being great.

 

More importantly, they'll need to extend their core within the next few years or risk players becoming probitively expensive. That Heyward contract is a real bad anchor, and they've got a ton of money allocated to Lester as well. They don't NEED Q like the Astros do. But it greatly improves the outlook of their future roster.

 

Plus, their top prospects are blocked for the foreseeable future. They don't need Happ and Jimenez (who probably has to shift off center), and two top 20 prospects that can hit is a great start on a package.

 

Edit: and before anyone tells me the Cubs don't need money, look at the Yankees/Red Sox. Even huge market teams have to be conscious on contract planning.

Edited by Username
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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 12:25 PM)
I don't think they are interested in re-signing Arrieta, but that's just my gut. It won't be for lack of money though, they are already swimming in it and these ticket hikes aren't going to dampen demand one bit.

 

Agreed. They may let Arrieta walk and sign one of the arms available next off-season instead

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QUOTE (Username @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 02:19 PM)
The Cubs have made it known that they've been searching for cost-controlled starters for awhile. Arrieta is a likely goner next year, as well as Lackey. Plus Lester isn't getting any younger despite still being great.

 

More importantly, they'll need to extend their core within the next few years or risk players becoming probitively expensive. That Heyward contract is a real bad anchor, and they've got a ton of money allocated to Lester as well. They don't NEED Q like the Astros do. But it greatly improves the outlook of their future roster.

 

Plus, their top prospects are blocked for the foreseeable future. They don't need Happ and Jimenez (who probably has to shift off center), and two top 20 prospects that can hit is a great start on a package.

 

Edit: and before anyone tells me the Cubs don't need money, look at the Yankees/Red Sox. Even huge market teams have to be conscious on contract planning.

 

Jimenez, happ, candelario, zagunis would be a solid package. Although the cubs don't have many good pitching prospects to include

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 01:54 PM)
It sucks, but what's new? This franchise has been cursed in developing hitters. We have not developed one single position player in the last 16 years. It's really an incredible feat when you come to think about it and how many good hitters has played in the MLB in that time span, and none of those were developed by the Sox. It also hurts to see some of our mid tier prospects got traded away and found success with another org, guys like Chris Young, Chris Carter, and Paulo Orlando, maybe we'll even be sour with Tatis Jr. a few years down the road.

 

well this isn't quite true. they developed semian and Tracye, but traded them.

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