Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[Con te Giolito]

I keep seeing tweets about the Yankees and how they should 'hold onto' their prospects and go for it in a few years? Don't they know that Q is only 27 and has 4 years of contract control? Let's say they give up one of Torres/ Frazier and 2 more in their top 20, wouldn't they still be in great shape prospect wise moving forward? The kids on the main roster were knocking on the door for a wildcard spot last season. Can you imagine if they add Q to the mix this year? I don't know.... the Yankees are a perfect match for this Q trade. Now that Rosenthal tweeted out the Astros and Pirates as potential front runners, I wonder if Cashman panics and gives in?

Prospects are fun to collect and stockpile and fans can fantasize with prospects in ways they can't with big league vets. Everyone thinks their guy is the MVP guy, or even the Hall of Fame guy. I mean I've heard the word untouchable used to describe everything from 16 year olds without a pro AB to players who were already traded less than 6 months ago. The idea that Austin Meadows, a player I really like, is untouchable is ridiculous. You're telling me there's nothing that be given up to acquire him? It was dumb when the Astros refused to even entertain the notion of trading Alex Bregman, a player who had an OK debut and has yet to put together 2 good consecutive months of production, and it's only getting dumber with these players who don't have any experience above AA being declared off limits.

 

It's very irritating.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Con te Giolito

[Quin]

Well, that goes back to my point of in my head cashman is willing to use Torres in a deal, but when Torres is added wants it to be in a situation where he is offering a talent so much more coveted than what other teams are offered he does not need to offer as much on the backend. Compare that with if Cashman is bidding Torres vs a Meadows, well, then they need to be competitive on the backend.

 

But if Torres is dropped in an offer, Hahn isn't goint to respond "uh he's only half of 1/2 season of chapman therefore goodbye"

 

Would you accept a smaller package built around Torres or a larger package around Meadows?

[NCsoxfan]

This is such a tough one for me. I feel confident Q will maintain his performance over time & am very skeptical the actual return will end up yielding what Q will give value wise. Consistency and term IMO mean Q should get as much as Sale but sadly we know that won't happen

[OklahomaBrave]

Braves fan here- First let me start by saying how much I have enjoyed reading the intelligent discussion on this board. I have been lurking here for quite a while to to help me keep up with Quintana and Sale rumors and have appreciated all the information and conversations I have read. I have long believed that Quintana, not Sale as originally rumored, has been the primary focus of our front office. Down plying the interest in Q seems like pretty normal misdirection.

 

Was curious what a fair package would be in Sox posters opinions. I was thinking Albies~top 20 prospect, Newcomb~top 50 prospect, Soroka~100 prospect, and Mallex Smith who could immediately play CF might be a fair starting point? Maybe add Austin Riley for good measure?

 

My reasoning for not adding Matian is because of how difficult it is to appraise his value. It's not that he is untouchable, per se, rather that it is difficult to deal him and get full value. Right now he is an excellent third piece. In six months he could "carry" a large deal on his own. It seems impossible for him to currently be viewed by a buyer at full value.

 

Thanks for the response and apologize for any potential homerism!

[southsider2k5]

Braves fan here- First let me start by saying how much I have enjoyed reading the intelligent discussion on this board. I have been lurking here for quite a while to to help me keep up with Quintana and Sale rumors and have appreciated all the information and conversations I have read. I have long believed that Quintana, not Sale as originally rumored, has been the primary focus of our front office. Down plying the interest in Q seems like pretty normal misdirection.

 

Was curious what a fair package would be in Sox posters opinions. I was thinking Albies~top 20 prospect, Newcomb~top 50 prospect, Soroka~100 prospect, and Mallex Smith who could immediately play CF might be a fair starting point? Maybe add Austin Riley for good measure?

 

My reasoning for not adding Matian is because of how difficult it is to appraise his value. It's not that he is untouchable, per se, rather that it is difficult to deal him and get full value. Right now he is an excellent third piece. In six months he could "carry" a large deal on his own. It seems impossible for him to currently be viewed by a buyer at full value.

 

Thanks for the response and apologize for any potential homerism!

 

Welcome to Soxtalk. Personally I feel like Albies and Matain should be where the deal starts for the White Sox. They need position players, and with the reports of the kid being a generational hitter, they almost have to target him.

 

I do think the logic behind the framework of the deal you proposed is solid, but I really think they are going to target more hitters than pitchers after the return of their first two deals.

[bmags]

Would you accept a smaller package built around Torres or a larger package around Meadows?

 

I would take a larger package around Meadows.

 

 

[Con te Giolito]

Albies + Acuna + any one of Altanta's 3 minor league lefties (Allard, Newcomb or Fried) would be more my speed. I'm not sure how much more RHP the Sox need right now, or at least how much they should actively pursue in trades.

[caulfield12]

I'm not sure when we should sacrifice anything in trade return unless we can get a true upgrade in CF.

 

Seeing all these names like Mallex Smith, or Dalton Pompey (or similar), we could simply go out and "buy/trade for" Juan Lagares, Michael Taylor, Jarrod Dyson or a similar player as a placeholder. As the 4th/5th piece, I guess it's okay...but this is one of those situations where you hope to get two potential All-Stars out of a deal. And then you have to consider that cost/trade or flip value of those acquisitions versus giving playing time to Tilson or possibly Engel/May out there. But it's going to be incredibly important to have a strong defensive CFer to give all our young pitchers as much confidence as possible beginning in late May or early June.

 

So back to Albies/Maitan/Newcomb....you need at least two of those three. The back end isn't as important as long as you get the first two guys you're targeting. Captain Obviously Fantastic.

 

At the moment, with Meadows, he's the centerpiece...but you can't get him until the Pirates have decided they won't get fair value on McCutcheon, and even then they need to keep him as "insurance" for an injury to Marte/Polanco/McCutcheon unless they feel pretty darned confident they can get by putting Bell out in LF or RF and covering his anticipated defensive inadequacies with Marte/Polanco.

 

 

For now, the Pirates aren't budging and the Astros believe they're still ahead of Texas and the Mariners. Until those two situations change, then any movement would have to come from the Braves raising their package or the Yankees deciding they are legitimately competing in 2017 instead of "retooling" and hoping for the best.

Edited January 5, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I would take a larger package around Meadows.

 

 

I think I'd go with Torres based on his positional flexibility and athleticism.

 

That said, we desperately need quality outfielders, so it's a hard choice.

 

From my standpoint, Torres has the most helium and the bigger ceiling, but it's easy to get carried away with AFL results and regular season numbers are much more predictive.

[Chicago White Sox]

Astros & Pirates still make the most sense for Quintana.

 

If these were the offers, which deal would you prefer?

 

Astros: Martes, Tucker, Reed, Sierra

 

Pirates: Glasnow, Bell, Hayes, Garcia

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Braves fan here- First let me start by saying how much I have enjoyed reading the intelligent discussion on this board. I have been lurking here for quite a while to to help me keep up with Quintana and Sale rumors and have appreciated all the information and conversations I have read. I have long believed that Quintana, not Sale as originally rumored, has been the primary focus of our front office. Down plying the interest in Q seems like pretty normal misdirection.

 

Was curious what a fair package would be in Sox posters opinions. I was thinking Albies~top 20 prospect, Newcomb~top 50 prospect, Soroka~100 prospect, and Mallex Smith who could immediately play CF might be a fair starting point? Maybe add Austin Riley for good measure?

 

My reasoning for not adding Matian is because of how difficult it is to appraise his value. It's not that he is untouchable, per se, rather that it is difficult to deal him and get full value. Right now he is an excellent third piece. In six months he could "carry" a large deal on his own. It seems impossible for him to currently be viewed by a buyer at full value.

 

Thanks for the response and apologize for any potential homerism!

Wonderful post. I think you are being very fair. Hart/Coppolella are doing a wonderful job. They were way ahead of the market for guys like Colon and Dickey. Those are guys the Sox could have targeted once Sale and Q were gone.. The Braves are in a precarious situation. They probably shouldn't be trading prospects just to be competitive in the new stadium. I realize attendance usually spikes in a brand new home but they are going to need those guys when they are actually ready to do more than just add to the excitement of a new home.

 

Even adding Q probably won't mean a playoff appearance. However if the Braves actually do make a serious offer and Q performs very well for the next 2 years then he becomes a guy who the Braves can trade to get some prospects back.

 

The key will be how far will the Braves come in a year or two without the prospects they give up for Quintana . Will paying the price for Q actually help or hurt the Braves ? Right now I think it hurts them more then helps them . I think they are a long shot to acquire him this off season. But if no one meets Rick Hahn's price they may get another shot at the trade deadline when they have more info on the development of their better prospects.

Edited January 5, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

With the Mets and Nationals blocking them, acquiring Q primarily for his last two years doesn't 100% make sense.

 

It's almost the same argument as the White Sox holding onto Q in the first place. You can certainly make an argument that the White Sox SHOULD be competing for at least the wild card in 2019 and definitely the AL Central Division in 2020. Except the Sox desperately need those prospects as much as the Braves logically should hold onto them and let them arrive together as a wave at the major league level.

 

Plus, Q alone won't draw out any fans in Atlanta, the new stadium/marketing will have to hold down the fort the next two years while they're fighting for respectability and then for the post-season when Harper leaves the Nationals and/or the Mets' rotation breaks down and/or Harvey is gone.

[Con te Giolito]

If the Sox and Moncada are confident about him playing a good center field (and I mean GOOD) there's a real argument to be made for Albies. But that is a big if with Moncada and even so I think I'd still rather have Torres and Meadows than Albies. So if Torres or Meadows are on the table the Braves are already playing catch up to the Yanks or Pirates deals.

 

Not that Atlanta can't catch up, they have a mountain of top 100 tier talent, I just don't think they would want to. The hill to make up trade value ground on a headliner is steep even if the distance between two guys seems short. Are the Braves really interested in moving Acuna AND Allard on top of Albies? Probably not. I don't think they should be, personally. But that's what it's gonna take to overcome a motivated buyer in Pittsburgh or New York.

[caulfield12]

If the Sox and Moncada are confident about him playing a good center field (and I mean GOOD) there's a real argument to be made for Albies. But that is a big if with Moncada and even so I think I'd still rather have Torres and Meadows than Albies. So if Torres or Meadows are on the table the Braves are already playing catch up to the Yanks or Pirates deals.

 

Not that Atlanta can't catch up, they have a mountain of top 100 tier talent, I just don't think they would want to. The hill to make up trade value ground on a headliner is steep even if the distance between two guys seems short. Are the Braves really interested in moving Acuna AND Allard on top of Albies? Probably not. I don't think they should be, personally. But that's what it's gonna take to overcome a motivated buyer in Pittsburgh or New York.

 

Why would you want to move Albies to CF when he's already better than Anderson at SS?

 

It makes more sense than putting Moncada in CF and keeping Albies on the infield...but there are a lot of moving pieces. The biggest unknown is how well Anderson would do in center. You tend to either have those first step and route instincts (as well as playing shallow or being more comfortable coming in) or you don't. No amount of practice and repetition can make up for it.

 

The easiest thing to do is finding a natural CFer, unless the scouts believe the upside of a Torres or Albies just can't be passed up and they're confident in a transition to a different (and key) defensive position.

Edited January 5, 2017 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

Astros & Pirates still make the most sense for Quintana.

 

If these were the offers, which deal would you prefer?

 

Astros: Martes, Tucker, Reed, Sierra

 

Pirates: Glasnow, Bell, Hayes, Garcia

As much as I like Glasnow and Bell I'd take that Astros package.

[DirtySox]

Astros & Pirates still make the most sense for Quintana.

 

If these were the offers, which deal would you prefer?

 

Astros: Martes, Tucker, Reed, Sierra

 

Pirates: Glasnow, Bell, Hayes, Garcia

 

Astros slightly. Would like it much more if Franklin Perez found his way into the package.

[Con te Giolito]

Why would you want to move Albies to CF when he's already better than Anderson at SS?

 

It makes more sense than putting Moncada in CF and keeping Albies on the infield...but there are a lot of moving pieces. The biggest unknown is how well Anderson would do in center. You tend to either have those first step and route instincts (as well as playing shallow or being more comfortable coming in) or you don't. No amount of practice and repetition can make up for it.

 

The easiest thing to do is finding a natural CFer, unless the scouts believe the upside of a Torres or Albies just can't be passed up and they're confident in a transition to a different (and key) defensive position.

I see no reason to move Anderson off SS for anything less than a guy with ML experience at the position. If you havent started the clock on a guy it's a better idea to use time in the minors to teach him a new p position than it is forcing poor Tim Anderson to keep making adjustments at the plate while also trying to play CF.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Been wanting to do this for a while to kinda break it down...So here's the top 20 hitting prospects according to mlb pipelline. Personally I think it's pretty important to get 1 of these guys for Q...only problem is there just aren't many that are available when you look at it like this.

 

1-Moncada- Already got him

2-JP Crawford- won't be traded

3-Swanson- won't be traded

4-Benintendi- not trading with the Red Sox again

5-Brendan Rodgers

6-Austin Meadows

7-Victor Robles- Don't see the Nats going for Q

8-Amed Rosario- Don't see the Mets trading for a SP

9-Ozie Albies

10-Lewis Brinson- Brewers aren't buying

11-Clint Frazier

12-Rafael Devers- not trading with the Red Sox again

13-Gleyber Torres

14-Jorge Mateo

15-Willy Adams- Rays aren't buying

16-Josh Bell

17-Ian Happ- Ehh? Thought about bolding him, but don't see a Cubs trade happening

18-Aaron Judge- Will the Yankees even trade him?

19-Eloy Jimenez- see above

20-Mickey Moniak- Phillies aren't buying

 

Would anybody do a Yankees deal without Torres or Frazier? Mateo, Rutherford, Sheffield and Fowler? I know it seems light at 1st glance but that's #18, 51, and 78 + a decent CF prospect in Fowler.

[NCsoxfan]

Acuna is tearing up winter league (take it fwiw), so I'd def want him in any package. Albies, Maitan, Acuna, and Soroka?

[Con te Giolito]

Acuna is tearing up winter league (take it fwiw), so I'd def want him in any package. Albies, Maitan, Acuna, and Soroka?

No way Atlanta gives that up.

[OklahomaBrave]

Appreciate all the responses!

 

If the Sox are determined to get positional prospects,which I would understand, I can't see us matching up to well. I would trade Albies only because his best position is SS, which he would be playing if not for Swanson. Not sure how the Sox fan base or brass feels about Anderson, but skepticism for his lack of patience would make Albies an attractive SS option. Our top three hitting prospects are Albies, Matian, and Acuna. As the new rankings come out by BP, Pipeline, Keith Law, some of you may be surprised how closely All three rank. I just can't imagine trading two of those three. Not that it isn't a justifiable asking point. I think Albies is the MOST available, not because of his talent but because of position depth. If Newcomb is a sufficient second piece I think a deal could be workable depending on the tertiary piece. I believe Riley(3b and probably our fourth best position prospect) could be had or one of our further away high ranking SP arms. If the sticking point is Acuna or Maitian I'd imagine the Braves won't bite. Just my perspective as a fan of course, but our front office seems loathe to trade from our lack of power prospect depth.

[Chicago White Sox]

Been wanting to do this for a while to kinda break it down...So here's the top 20 hitting prospects according to mlb pipelline. Personally I think it's pretty important to get 1 of these guys for Q...only problem is there just aren't many that are available when you look at it like this.

 

1-Moncada- Already got him

2-JP Crawford- won't be traded

3-Swanson- won't be traded

4-Benintendi- not trading with the Red Sox again

5-Brendan Rodgers

6-Austin Meadows

7-Victor Robles- Don't see the Nats going for Q

8-Amed Rosario- Don't see the Mets trading for a SP

9-Ozie Albies

10-Lewis Brinson- Brewers aren't buying

11-Clint Frazier

12-Rafael Devers- not trading with the Red Sox again

13-Gleyber Torres

14-Jorge Mateo

15-Willy Adams- Rays aren't buying

16-Josh Bell

17-Ian Happ- Ehh? Thought about bolding him, but don't see a Cubs trade happening

18-Aaron Judge- Will the Yankees even trade him?

19-Eloy Jimenez- see above

20-Mickey Moniak- Phillies aren't buying

 

Would anybody do a Yankees deal without Torres or Frazier? Mateo, Rutherford, Sheffield and Fowler? I know it seems light at 1st glance but that's #18, 51, and 78 + a decent CF prospect in Fowler.

I think Kyle Tucker will be on that list by mid-season next year. And A.J. Reed would have been on this list 12 months ago before he had a rough first go in the majors (one that is remarkably similar to Anthony Rizzo's) which has greatly suppressed his value. Give me those two guys plus Martes & a lottery ticket (who could a decent prospect considering the Astros' depth) and I think you have the framework of a very solid deal and one that gets us two good looking bats.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[beautox]

Acuna is tearing up winter league (take it fwiw), so I'd def want him in any package. Albies, Maitan, Acuna, and Soroka?

Replaced Soroka with Fried and I'm sold, a deal like this also squashes any thoughts of being a dark horse for '18 (which is fine) and forces them to commit fully to the rebuild not going out and trading away a Semien one year and a Thompson and Montas the next.

Edited January 5, 2017 by beautox

[iamshack]

Appreciate all the responses!

 

If the Sox are determined to get positional prospects,which I would understand, I can't see us matching up to well. I would trade Albies only because his best position is SS, which he would be playing if not for Swanson. Not sure how the Sox fan base or brass feels about Anderson, but skepticism for his lack of patience would make Albies an attractive SS option. Our top three hitting prospects are Albies, Matian, and Acuna. As the new rankings come out by BP, Pipeline, Keith Law, some of you may be surprised how closely All three rank. I just can't imagine trading two of those three. Not that it isn't a justifiable asking point. I think Albies is the MOST available, not because of his talent but because of position depth. If Newcomb is a sufficient second piece I think a deal could be workable depending on the tertiary piece. I believe Riley(3b and probably our fourth best position prospect) could be had or one of our further away high ranking SP arms. If the sticking point is Acuna or Maitian I'd imagine the Braves won't bite. Just my perspective as a fan of course, but our front office seems loathe to trade from our lack of power prospect depth.

I'd like Acuna ahead of Albies at this point I think.

 

I'll bet the holdup with the Braves is exactly what you're alluding to. The White Sox want two of Albies/Acuna/Maitan, and the Braves are balking.

 

I may be in the minority, but the Braves pitching prospects don't excite me a whole lot.

[Con te Giolito]

The issue with Albies is less his position and more his total lack of power. I know he just turned 20 and that down the road he can probably develop some more pop, but right now the Sox need to be focusing more on players with complete offensive games.

 

It's a shame because I love players of Albies' profile, quick little guys with contact swings and great defense are the baseballiest ballplayers around. Maybe there's a way to make it all work with Albies displacing Anderson (do not like displacing Anderson) or Moncada (only worth exploring if they are certain Moncada will thrive in CF), but that seems like a longshot.