bmags Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The pirates window is closing? We talking about the team we are crying about to include their two top hitting prospects in addition to their 2 top 50 pitching prospects and have the best outfield in baseball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) The pirates window is closing? We talking about the team we are crying about to include their two top hitting prospects in addition to their 2 top 50 pitching prospects and have the best outfield in baseball? The one who has to trade its best player for financial reasons to make a trade for Q? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) I am glad you said that. Realistically our rebuild, if it succeeds, will look much more like Pittsburgh or Kansas City, both of whom are already seeing their windows closing. Pittsburgh and KC both had narrow windows with which to bring in talent before their lack of resources meant that players would be leaving and their times at the top ending. There wasn't a lot of extra money to spend into the talent arriving to extend that window. Man I'd hate to have a rebuild like KC had. Terrible failure that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) Man I'd hate to have a rebuild like KC had. Terrible failure that was. It is the three decades before that which worry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) The one who has to trade its best player for financial reasons to make a trade for Q? That's a completely different issue. The Pirates payroll constraints have no bearing on future payroll constraints that the Sox might or might not have. The Pirates' contention window, however, is starting Year 5 and looks likely to extend for the next couple years. I'd take that window for the Sox... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 New CBA shows severe restriction on consistently being above the luxury tax. Significant restrictions on overspending on INTL. Those same teams are loading up prospects because they can't afford to spend their way through victories anymore. Remember when EE to boston was a done deal? Yeah they are going to the season replacing David Ortiz with Mitch Moreland. There's no reason to throw up our hands and say woe is us. Edit: oh yeah, and EE went and signed with CLEVELAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) The one who has to trade its best player for financial reasons to make a trade for Q? And has a top ten CF prospect ready to step in its place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:06 PM) That's a completely different issue. The Pirates payroll constraints have no bearing on future payroll constraints that the Sox might or might not have. The Pirates' contention window, however, is starting Year 5 and looks likely to extend for the next couple years. I'd take that window for the Sox... The had just as many wins in 2016 as the White Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 12:07 PM) New CBA shows severe restriction on consistently being above the luxury tax. Significant restrictions on overspending on INTL. Those same teams are loading up prospects because they can't afford to spend their way through victories anymore. Remember when EE to boston was a done deal? Yeah they are going to the season replacing David Ortiz with Mitch Moreland. There's no reason to throw up our hands and say woe is us. Edit: oh yeah, and EE went and signed with CLEVELAND I mean we may as well just fold up our tent and go home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) The pirates window is closing? We talking about the team we are crying about to include their two top hitting prospects in addition to their 2 top 50 pitching prospects and have the best outfield in baseball? This doesn't really detract from your point but the best outfield in baseball is clearly the Angels' outfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) And has a top ten CF prospect ready to step in its place? Looking at his brief stay in AAA, it looks like he may not be ready quite yet, but I would take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) And has a top ten CF prospect ready to step in its place? Position players prospects would be great. I'd love it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:12 PM) Position players prospects would be great. I'd love it personally. Well, if we traded for position players, we'd still be totally screwed because their window would close and what are we going to do to re-sign them? Ugh, we should trade collins now for a younger player just to keep this window open as long as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:10 PM) The had just as many wins in 2016 as the White Sox. Unlike the White Sox, they won 98 games the year before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:10 PM) This doesn't really detract from your point but the best outfield in baseball is clearly the Angels' outfield. Well, stupid mike trout dragging Cameron Maybin's ass upward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:16 PM) Unlike the White Sox, they won 98 games the year before... They don't take that into consideration during the 2016 season. They were not in contention in 2016. Their window was closed. Maybe it re-opens, maybe it doesn't. But to say they are in year 5 is ignoring year 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 01:31 PM) Can we stop for a second to acknowledge this: The Yankees acquired Frazier for 2.5 years of a relief pitcher, and Torres for half a season of a relief pitcher. First of all, what an extraordinary strike of good fortune. Second, how strange that, a few months later, both seem off the table for four years of a starting pitcher!! Yes, the Indians/Cubs and Yankees were in different situations, but still. Should be able to give some better perspective on Quintana's trade value and market. A few things. 1) both trades were made at the deadline when buyers are more desperate. The supply and demand is different now than it was at the deadline last year. 2) the Yankees are rebuilding so for them it makes sense to hold onto those players. The Pirates and Astros on the other hand need to accept that they need to give to get. At least the Astros look willing to part with their top hitting prospects which is more than I can say for Pitt at this point. In the the end I think Luhnow will make the best offer. The Gomez and Giles trades show that Luhnow is willing to part with quality prospects to get what he wants, what has Huntington done? IMHO, no Bell or Meadows means no Q for Pitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 God this thread needs a rumor/tweet whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) I am glad you said that. Realistically our rebuild, if it succeeds, will look much more like Pittsburgh or Kansas City, both of whom are already seeing their windows closing. Pittsburgh and KC both had narrow windows with which to bring in talent before their lack of resources meant that players would be leaving and their times at the top ending. There wasn't a lot of extra money to spend into the talent arriving to extend that window. This is not true. Those teams had no means to compete in FA, so they built their organizations through high-risk, super-young talent in the draft. That created several-years-away projections that lead to a lot of busts and couldn't be augmented with free agents. The White Sox cannot hang with the Cubs/Yankees/Dodgers/Red Sox of course, but they're not anemic either. And, just as important, they are jump starting their rebuild with lower risk, close-to-the-majors prospects thanks to some unique trades. Totally different scenario. Could well fail, but not because they're drafting high school kids and crossing their fingers for five years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 God this thread needs a rumor/tweet whatever. What I would give Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) A few things. 1) both trades were made at the deadline when buyers are more desperate. The supply and demand is different now than it was at the deadline last year. 2) the Yankees are rebuilding so for them it makes sense to hold onto those players. The Pirates and Astros on the other hand need to accept that they need to give to get. At least the Astros look willing to part with their top hitting prospects which is more than I can say for Pitt at this point. In the the end I think Luhnow will make the best offer. The Gomez and Giles trades show that Luhnow is willing to part with quality prospects to get what he wants, what has Huntington done? IMHO, no Bell or Meadows means no Q for Pitt. Yes, I acknowledged this, and it does explain why the Yankees specially wouldn't be willing to trade those guys. But the market value remains. There's no way Miller and Chapman are worth those (types of) prospects and Quintana somehow isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 aren't you guys glad the Sale trade didn't stretch this long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Yankees fans are tolerating this "rebuilding" because it gives them a new opportunity to lord their superiority over everyone else by accumulating in vogue prospects, but another losing season and they'll get mad. They are having attendance issues, YES network is losing ratings and those same fans eager to pour giddily over prospects lists in the offseason wont be so supportive of Cashman if the Yankees are in 4th place. Lotta s*** talking amongst the AL East fanbases, finishing behind Baltimore and Toronto for another year would be insulting and unacceptable. Hal isn't Hank, that much is obvious, but he wont let the Yankees turn into a laughingstock. There's pressure on Cashman to contend and improve in 2017. Edited January 9, 2017 by Con te Giolito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:37 PM) aren't you guys glad the Sale trade didn't stretch this long? It stretched from July 1st onward tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) It stretched from July 1st onward tbh. True, but wouldve been torture if he wasn't dealt at the winter meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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