Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[striker]

Likely we are looking at something along the lines of:

 

Glasnow/Newman/Keller

 

or

 

Martes/Tucker/Paulino

 

as the two offers on the table

 

Sox are rejecting both of those. Neither the Pirates or Astros seem to want to include more at this time to beat the others offer, and both are a ways of from working out.

I'd reject both of those, sign Bautista and Saunders and make things interesting in 2017. Trade everyone at the deadline.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

I'd reject both of those, sign Bautista and Saunders and make things interesting in 2017. Trade everyone at the deadline.

You would do this after having traded Sale and Eaton?

[Bob Sacamano]

You would do this after having traded Sale and Eaton?

 

Along with punting our first round pick to sign Bautista.

[Buehrlesque]

That's a good deal from the Pirates end though. The problem we have with that deal is it's so pitching heavy. Glasnow is a top 10 prospect in baseball. Newman is somewhere in 35-50 range. Keller is rising and will most likely be top 50. That's 3 top 50 guys for Q. That's a lot of s***. It's just not the package packed with position players that we are expecting. If they added KeBryan Hayes or another high upside type and possibly their Competitive Balance pick then that's a fair deal. Not sure I'd be super excited because of the lack of position players but Glasnow/Newman/Keller trumps anything the Astros can do.

Value-wise it's in the ballpark. Might have been a fit for the Sox if it wasn't for the Giolito/Lopez/Dunning trade. But as things stand now, it's probably not what the Sox are looking for.

[Bob Sacamano]

That's a good deal from the Pirates end though. The problem we have with that deal is it's so pitching heavy. Glasnow is a top 10 prospect in baseball. Newman is somewhere in 35-50 range. Keller is rising and will most likely be top 50. That's 3 top 50 guys for Q. That's a lot of s***. It's just not the package packed with position players that we are expecting. If they added KeBryan Hayes or another high upside type and possibly their Competitive Balance pick then that's a fair deal. Not sure I'd be super excited because of the lack of position players but Glasnow/Newman/Keller trumps anything the Astros can do.

 

I would like this to be a final piece (but more like a 5th piece).

[shipps]

LOL I was sitting here laughing at my desk thinking about, again, how I could never be a GM for many obvious reasons but especially because at this point I would be like f*** YOU to all the other GM's and tell them they arent getting anything from me. No patience from me at all.

[Buehrlesque]

And Cashman essentially saying the Yankees are set in their rotation, which was a last ditch effort to lower the White Sox price. I'm happy Hahn isn't budging.

I don't understand this stance. What is the Yankees gameplan? They just signed old Matt Holliday to a one-year deal to DH, and dumped $86 million into a closer. Why would a rebuilding team do that? Plus, the thing with the Yankees is they can essentially buy anyone they want at any time in FA. Encarnacion, Harper, Machado, McCutchen, Donaldson... they can have their pick of any of them when they become available. The one thing that almost never becomes available is a top starter like Quintana. Wouldn't it be worth it for them to pay in terms of prospects like Frazier/Torres for Quintana, then just dump money on whatever hitter they want when the time is right?

[Bob Sacamano]

LOL I was sitting here laughing at my desk thinking about, again, how I could never be a GM for many obvious reasons but especially because at this point I would be like f*** YOU to all the other GM's and tell them they arent getting anything from me. No patience from me at all.

 

Lol agreed. He is going to be talking to other GMs every day from now until he is traded (exclude holiday seasons) which could be July 31, 2017 or January 10, 2018. I wouldn't be able to do that.

[bmags]

I don't understand this stance. What is the Yankees gameplan? They just signed old Matt Holliday to a one-year deal to DH, and dumped $86 million into a closer. Why would a rebuilding team do that? Plus, the thing with the Yankees is they can essentially buy anyone they want at any time in FA. Encarnacion, Harper, Machado, McCutchen, Donaldson... they can have their pick of any of them when they become available. The one thing that almost never becomes available is a top starter like Quintana. Wouldn't it be worth it for them to pay in terms of prospects like Frazier/Torres for Quintana, then just dump money on whatever hitter they want when the time is right?

 

They want to dip below tax for 2018, and part of that will be getting cheap talent from their prospects so they don't pay 80% tax on the high end of every dollar after they get Harper. It would be "worth it" to get Q for them, but also worth it to keep prospects, both achieve that goal but Yanks have no urgency this year to do so.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't understand this stance. What is the Yankees gameplan? They just signed old Matt Holliday to a one-year deal to DH, and dumped $86 million into a closer. Why would a rebuilding team do that? Plus, the thing with the Yankees is they can essentially buy anyone they want at any time in FA. Encarnacion, Harper, Machado, McCutchen, Donaldson... they can have their pick of any of them when they become available. The one thing that almost never becomes available is a top starter like Quintana. Wouldn't it be worth it for them to pay in terms of prospects like Frazier/Torres for Quintana, then just dump money on whatever hitter they want when the time is right?

 

They dumped that money on Chapman because they plan on being good at some point again at some point in those 5 years. Holiday is a potential sign-and-flip in July. Age doesn't matter for a 2-month rental if he is producing (Beltran for example). They're not really rebuilding in the sense that they are going to tear it all down over a 3+ year span. Next off-season, they can spend on 2 starters keeping all their young talent.

Edited January 10, 2017 by soxfan2014

[bmags]

I still think it gets done soon. There are just no deadlines, and none of the teams discussed actually have an alternative, so this happens.

[Buehrlesque]

They dumped that money on Chapman because they plan on being good at some point again at some point in those 5 years. Holiday is a potential sign-and-flip in July. Age doesn't matter for a 2-month rental if he is producing (Beltran for example). They're not really rebuilding in the sense that they are going to tear it all down over a 3+ year span. Next off-season, they can spend on 2 starters keeping all their young talent.

I guess they could buy Arrieta or Cueto next off season. But at the same time, Tanaka, Sabathia and Pineda will all be FAs as well, so there will be multiple holes to fill.

[Bob Sacamano]

I guess they could buy Arrieta or Cueto next off season. But at the same time, Tanaka, Sabathia and Pineda will all be FAs as well, so there will be multiple holes to fill.

 

I think Tanaka gets dealt in June/July for prospects (if he is healthy and doing good) and then they try to bring him back next off-season.

[OmarComing25]

I think Tanaka gets dealt in June/July for prospects (if he is healthy and doing good) and then they try to bring him back next off-season.

I think the Yankees are going to be in the hunt all year so I don't see this happening.

[steveno89]

I don't understand this stance. What is the Yankees gameplan? They just signed old Matt Holliday to a one-year deal to DH, and dumped $86 million into a closer. Why would a rebuilding team do that? Plus, the thing with the Yankees is they can essentially buy anyone they want at any time in FA. Encarnacion, Harper, Machado, McCutchen, Donaldson... they can have their pick of any of them when they become available. The one thing that almost never becomes available is a top starter like Quintana. Wouldn't it be worth it for them to pay in terms of prospects like Frazier/Torres for Quintana, then just dump money on whatever hitter they want when the time is right?

 

That's what I was thinking. Unless the Yankees plan on buying pitching the next few seasons? Although paying top dollar for pitching ends up not working out more.

 

Quintana is a very safe bet to be a well above average starting left handed pitcher over the next four seasons. If we can't get very close to Sale value for him then I say we keep him

 

Moncada is a better prospect by far than any we are discussing, even Meadows/Frazier/Torres

 

 

 

 

[Con te Giolito]

Torres + Frazier is a bit much to be demanding of the Yankees and if Hahn really isn't budging off that demand I'm getting a little worried. Lots of talk about Quintana's value and what the Sox should get for him...Quintana's value is the most another team is willing to pay. Now Hahn's job to play salesman and get that highest price, but being ridiculous isn't productive.

 

As for the waiting until Hahn's "price is met". If I have a base model Ford Focus that I'm trying to sell for $50,000 and nobody wants to buy it I cant just say "well have fun taking the BUS" and expect someone to come crawling back in a year to buy my Ford Focus (that is now a year older btw) for a giant pile of money. Time is not going to magically concoct a new market for Jose Quintana out of thin air, if anything his market shrinks as the 2017-18 FA bonanza draws nearer. There will be more competition at the deadline too, some of those impending FA's will be available as rentals.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Con te Giolito

[Con te Giolito]

That's what I was thinking. Unless the Yankees plan on buying pitching the next few seasons? Although paying top dollar for pitching ends up not working out more.

 

Quintana is a very safe bet to be a well above average starting left handed pitcher over the next four seasons. If we can't get very close to Sale value for him then I say we keep him

 

Moncada is a better prospect by far than any we are discussing, even Meadows/Frazier/Torres

Better? Yes. By far? No.

[steveno89]

I think the Yankees are going to be in the hunt all year so I don't see this happening.

 

The Yankees are in a strange place, sort of halfway between contending and rebuilding

 

They will be rolling with quite a few unproven players in 2017

 

Sanchez will likely come back to earth after his crazy second half in 2016

 

Bird is a question mark

 

Judge is a question mark

 

Starting pitching could be decent, or completely implode

 

I see the Yankees as a .500 team, maybe slightly above (83 wins sounds about right for them, missing the playoffs)

[Buehrlesque]

Torres + Frazier is a bit much to be demanding of the Yankees and if Hahn really isn't budging off that demand I'm getting a little worried. Lots of talk about Quintana's value and what the Sox should get for him...Quintana's value is the most another team is willing to pay. Now Hahn's job to play salesman and get that highest price, but being ridiculous isn't productive.

 

As for the waiting until Hahn's "price is met". If I have a base model Ford Focus that I'm trying to sell for $50,000 and nobody wants to buy it I cant just say "well have fun taking the BUS" and expect someone to come crawling back in a year to buy my Ford Focus (that is now a year older btw) for a giant pile of money. Time is not going to magically concoct a new market for Jose Quintana out of thin air, if anything his market shrinks as the 2017-18 FA bonanza draws nearer. There will be more competition at the deadline too, some of those impending FA's will be available as rentals.

Do we know that Hahn is demanding both? I would guess one of the two as a headliner is good enough.

[steveno89]

Better? Yes. By far? No.

 

Ok, perhaps not by far, but a considerably better prospect lets say?

 

My point is if you had to pick one of Moncada/Torres/Frazier/Meadows to have in your system, which would it be?

 

9/10 GM's would definitely select Moncada, if not 10/10

[steveno89]

Do we know that Hahn is demanding both? I would guess one of the two as a headliner is good enough.

 

I would certainly ask for a Torres + Frazier + Sheffield package for Quintana

 

If they really cannot stomach that, then the lowest acceptable offer would be something like:

 

Torres + Rutherford + Sheffield + Andujar

Edited January 10, 2017 by steveno89

[Con te Giolito]

Do we know that Hahn is demanding both? I would guess one of the two as a headliner is good enough.

That's what that YES network guy said, I dont see a reason not to believe him.

[ChiSox59]

Glasnow, Newman, and Keller easily gives the Sox the #1 system in baseball. That's a lot. Good enough to move 4 years of Q? I don't know.

 

Yah, I really like Glasnow and Keller. Only reason that trade doesn't excite me that much is because we really need bats. Add Hayes to it, it gets a little better. Still really want Meadows (as does everyone here).

[steveno89]

That's what that YES network guy said, I dont see a reason not to believe him.

 

Sox have shown with the Sale and Eaton trades that by being patient they can get their guy. GM's are under huge pressure to win, especially if a team is in its "window". The Sox do not have to settle for a package less than they want.

 

I'm very surprised that we have not heard of more interest from the Rockies. Quintana and/or Robertson/Jones would seem to be a great fit for them

[Con te Giolito]

I would certainly ask for a Torres + Frazier + Sheffield package for Quintana

 

If they really cannot stomach that, then the lowest acceptable offer would be something like:

 

Torres + Rutherford + Sheffield + Andujar

 

If the Sox are starting a deal with Torres and Rutherford they really cant expect too much more back. Probably a couple Victor Diaz's. Still a nice haul though, two premium position player prospects added is basically what you're hoping for here.

 

Torres may not be where Moncada is as a prospect yet, but I could easily see Torres having the better career. Same applies to Meadows. That may not even be a knock against Moncada, Kris Bryant is better than Carlos Correa but I doubt any Astros fans are crying about having Carlos Correa (Mark Appel OTOH....).