reiks12 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:23 AM) That's what that YES network guy said, I dont see a reason not to believe him. Cashman did say Hahn asked for 3 elite prospects. Maybe talks didn't progress past that. Cashman looks tired these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:30 AM) Cashman did say Hahn asked for 3 elite prospects. Maybe talks didn't progress past that. Cashman looks tired these days. Cashman looked tired ten years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Frazier/Rutherford/Andujar/Fowler is a fair package IMO. The Yankees would get to keep Torres too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 It benefits none of they buying GMs to act like they are offering their top prospects. Hahn is playing this correctly. I'm also fine with it going to deadline now, I do think we'll do just as good if not better mainly because I am 100% confident Quintana will be awesome. And now that everyone knows to look for Quintana, it will only serve him more. But what I can't stand is this will hang over me for a few more months. I need closure! Naw nevermind it's still kind of fun when all of the possibilities are out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:17 PM) Do we know that Hahn is demanding both? I would guess one of the two as a headliner is good enough. QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) I would certainly ask for a Torres + Frazier + Sheffield package for Quintana If they really cannot stomach that, then the lowest acceptable offer would be something like: Torres + Rutherford + Sheffield + Andujar QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:23 PM) That's what that YES network guy said, I dont see a reason not to believe him. The White Sox did exactly what they should in a negotiation where they're actually willing to move the player. When the Red Sox asked about Sale last summer, the White Sox asked for Betts + in return - that's a short way of saying "we're not actually moving the player". When the White Sox dropped their offer to Benentendi + Moncada, the Red Sox could say "no way we're giving up that price, but here's a counter offer" and their counter offer was probably low. The White Sox then pushed back, and probably after a few cycles they wound up with the deal they wanted. The White Sox asked for Torres and Frazier from the Yankees, which is exactly what they should have done. They're willing to move the player. If the Yankees say yes to the first offer, you want to have gotten so much from them that you don't regret asking for more, but you don't ask for so much that the Yankees laugh at you and walk away. If you'd asked for Torres and Gary Sanchez, the Yankees would laugh and walk away. If the Yankees were actually interested in making a deal, they'd come back and reply "you can't have both of them, but we'll give you Frazier + this other player for him". The White Sox could then reply "no we don't like that other player but how about these 2 guys" and after a few cycles, something could get done. That the Yankees are leaking who the White Sox asked for and saying the White Sox's price is too high suggests to me that the Yankees really aren't being pushed to go for him right now and might actually be willing to start the season with their current rotation, because you only leak that first offer if you're really not willing to negotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:28 AM) Sox have shown with the Sale and Eaton trades that by being patient they can get their guy. GM's are under huge pressure to win, especially if a team is in its "window". The Sox do not have to settle for a package less than they want. I'm very surprised that we have not heard of more interest from the Rockies. Quintana and/or Robertson/Jones would seem to be a great fit for them I don't blame the Rockies. A pitcher with Qs demand is a high risk for them. After reading about Hurdles tenure there from the book Big Data Baseball I got the impression that the FO had no idea how to make their pitchers more effective in Coors. Granted he was there a while ago but the book made it sound like that organization was just fed up having no answer for the thin air. Q wouldn't be effective in that park. He relies too much on his breaking pitches but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The Yankees are fools if they go into the season with their current rotation. It's Tanaka and a bunch of garbage. Tanaka isn't even a sure thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:36 AM) I don't blame the Rockies. A pitcher with Qs demand is a high risk for them. After reading about Hurdles tenure there from the book Big Data Baseball I got the impression that the FO had no idea how to make their pitchers more effective in Coors. Granted he was there a while ago but the book made it sound like that organization was just fed up having no answer for the thin air. Q wouldn't be effective in that park. He relies too much on his breaking pitches but what do I know. The Rockies really need starting pitching and bullpen help if they want a chance of contending against the Giants and Dodgers Q and/or Robertson/Jones would bring some much needed stability to the pitching staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:36 PM) The Yankees are fools if they go into the season with their current rotation. It's Tanaka and a bunch of garbage. Tanaka isn't even a sure thing either. I don't think the Yankees really believe they have a competitive lineup and roster and I'm not sure they're wrong. They want to see if Sanchez can repeat his MVP like performance and what other pieces fall into place. If those things happen then the Yankees will be more willing to open up. The situation they want to avoid is trading away Torres + a ton of other stuff and then having Sanchez hit an opening season slump, which is possible for any young player, and then have to trade away guys at the deadline when they could have just held these guys in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:28 AM) Sox have shown with the Sale and Eaton trades that by being patient they can get their guy. GM's are under huge pressure to win, especially if a team is in its "window". The Sox do not have to settle for a package less than they want. I'm very surprised that we have not heard of more interest from the Rockies. Quintana and/or Robertson/Jones would seem to be a great fit for them Continues to baffle me as well. The Rockies have the need(s) and, more important to us, the specific pieces, to make a great trade partner here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:40 AM) I don't think the Yankees really believe they have a competitive lineup and roster and I'm not sure they're wrong. They want to see if Sanchez can repeat his MVP like performance and what other pieces fall into place. If those things happen then the Yankees will be more willing to open up. The situation they want to avoid is trading away Torres + a ton of other stuff and then having Sanchez hit an opening season slump, which is possible for any young player, and then have to trade away guys at the deadline when they could have just held these guys in the first place. Agreed. This is a "let the kids play and see what they can do and see who we can move forward with" year for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 09:41 PM) Newman has basically no power. I hadn't really looked up his breakdown until this. The fact that he has no power tool at all is a big red flag to me. Is he a guy that is going to hit .330 to make up for it? Is he Simmons in the field? If not, I have totally lost interest in him, especially if he is to be the top position player in the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) Agreed. This is a "let the kids play and see what they can do and see who we can move forward with" year for them. Plus, that Red Sox roster is pretty f***ing scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 08:22 AM) Likely we are looking at something along the lines of: Glasnow/Newman/Keller or Martes/Tucker/Paulino as the two offers on the table Sox are rejecting both of those. Neither the Pirates or Astros seem to want to include more at this time to beat the others offer, and both are a ways of from working out. If those are really the offers, I go into 2017 with Quintana on my roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) Torres + Frazier is a bit much to be demanding of the Yankees and if Hahn really isn't budging off that demand I'm getting a little worried. Lots of talk about Quintana's value and what the Sox should get for him...Quintana's value is the most another team is willing to pay. Now Hahn's job to play salesman and get that highest price, but being ridiculous isn't productive. As for the waiting until Hahn's "price is met". If I have a base model Ford Focus that I'm trying to sell for $50,000 and nobody wants to buy it I cant just say "well have fun taking the BUS" and expect someone to come crawling back in a year to buy my Ford Focus (that is now a year older btw) for a giant pile of money. Time is not going to magically concoct a new market for Jose Quintana out of thin air, if anything his market shrinks as the 2017-18 FA bonanza draws nearer. There will be more competition at the deadline too, some of those impending FA's will be available as rentals. I disagree. Torres and Frazier is not unreasonable for Quintana. in fact, I would want one more, lesser piece, as well. I hope that Hahn sticks to his demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:17 AM) Do we know that Hahn is demanding both? I would guess one of the two as a headliner is good enough. The report from Cashman yesterday was that he was looking for 3 Elite prospect, and speculation that was that Torres/Frazier was their starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:29 AM) If the Sox are starting a deal with Torres and Rutherford they really cant expect too much more back. Probably a couple Victor Diaz's. Still a nice haul though, two premium position player prospects added is basically what you're hoping for here. Torres may not be where Moncada is as a prospect yet, but I could easily see Torres having the better career. Same applies to Meadows. That may not even be a knock against Moncada, Kris Bryant is better than Carlos Correa but I doubt any Astros fans are crying about having Carlos Correa (Mark Appel OTOH....). So 4 years of a top ten starter is not worth as much as cumulative three years of control of two relievers and a half year of a 38 year old DH? The Yankees got more than Torres and Rutherford back for each of Chapman, Miller, and Beltran. Settling for a package of Torres, Rutherford, and a lotto ticket would be a vast undervaluation of Q or an extreme overvaluation of a guy that has played 0 games of full season baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:36 AM) The Yankees are fools if they go into the season with their current rotation. It's Tanaka and a bunch of garbage. Tanaka isn't even a sure thing either. Ellsbury is regressing hard and still owed quite a bit of money. Sabathia comes off the books after this season. Quintana would slot in very well, but I think their plan is to punt somewhat on the 2017 season, go big in free agency the next two offseasons, and couple that with hopefully Torres, Frazier, Mateo, Andujar, etc. being ready to contribute by 2019 That being said, even the Yankees have payroll constraints and cannot totally rely on big free agent signings to build the pitching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) The report from Cashman yesterday was that he was looking for 3 Elite prospect, and speculation that was that Torres/Frazier was their starting point. Or perhaps Cashman thinks all of his prospects are elite. Edited January 10, 2017 by IowaSoxFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 So 4 years of a top ten starter is not worth as much as cumulative three years of control of two relievers and a half year of a 38 year old DH? The Yankees got more than Torres and Rutherford back for each of Chapman, Miller, and Beltran. Settling for a package of Torres, Rutherford, and a lotto ticket would be a vast undervaluation of Q or an extreme overvaluation of a guy that has played 0 games of full season baseball. Thinking of things this way is counterproductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:39 AM) The Rockies really need starting pitching and bullpen help if they want a chance of contending against the Giants and Dodgers Q and/or Robertson/Jones would bring some much needed stability to the pitching staff The Rockies have some good young talent in their rotation. If Gray, Anderson, Chatwood and Bettis all improve this year, their rotation is actually probably ok. And this has been mentioned before in this thread, but Q is a curveball heavy pitcher. I think it's reasonable for the Rockies to be skeptical as to how that would play in Coors. He'd have to be fastball/change a LOT there. And with the prospect premium necessary to land him, given the extra risk, I think it's pretty reasonable for them to stay away on Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:42 AM) I hadn't really looked up his breakdown until this. The fact that he has no power tool at all is a big red flag to me. Is he a guy that is going to hit .330 to make up for it? Is he Simmons in the field? If not, I have totally lost interest in him, especially if he is to be the top position player in the deal. Eh.. if he's playing 2B, he doesn't need to hit 20+ bombs a year since it isn't a power hitting position. Will he be an all star? Probably not, but he still can be a very productive player whose high OBP, solid contact rate and solid fielding can be essential in building a world series team. Now I will say this, he better not be the top position prospect in any deal with Q. As a second or third position player? He's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Also if the white sox asked for the exact same Andrew miller package they could get it. This board as a whole in these negotiations treats prospects in the 50-200 range as equal value and also basically worthless ("throw-ins") in the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) The Rockies have some good young talent in their rotation. If Gray, Anderson, Chatwood and Bettis all improve this year, their rotation is actually probably ok. And this has been mentioned before in this thread, but Q is a curveball heavy pitcher. I think it's reasonable for the Rockies to be skeptical as to how that would play in Coors. He'd have to be fastball/change a LOT there. And with the prospect premium necessary to land him, given the extra risk, I think it's pretty reasonable for them to stay away on Q. What about the Rockies bullpen though? They were awful in 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneofthemikes Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 My opinion on "fair" value from the suitors. NYY: Frazier OR Torres, Rutherford, Andujar, and a low level (A+ or below) high upside pitcher. HOU: Martes, Tucker, Reed, Perez, and Stubbs OR Laureano PIT: Meadows, Newman, Keller, and Hayes Not sure if I'm way off base or not, but these make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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