Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[Con te Giolito]

I'm saying that in response to the below message, not what I think the Sox are doing:

 

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) *

Newman may not feel like an adequate headliner now, but Quintana has so much as a bad month and you'll be begging for him at the deadline.

 

That to me sounds like a panic, if you were to move forward and trade for him out of fear.

I'm not saying trade him now for whatever you can get. I am saying whatever is too much to give up for Q this offseasom will still be too much to give up for Q in July, and next offseason, and next July on and on. Barring a miracle Cy Young caliber season this is peak Q value. Hahn can be as upset as he wants that "his price" isn't being met, but taking his ball and going home because New York won't give him their three top prospects just exposes the Sox to a ton of unnecessary risk for what is overwhelmingly likely to be no gain. What other teams are willing to give up determines Q's price not what you want to get for him.

 

You guys are acting like this market where there is one, maybe two, effective starters available will last forever....it wont. It probably expires sometime in May. And by July 31 Q will be one of a few guys and by next offseason he'll be one of many. That is the moment you'll be begging just to get Kevin Newman because the only teams you'll be negotiating with are the ones who rely on their prospects to survive and covet them as such. The big time clubs will all be spending money, because they would rather lose that than prospects.

 

And if Q just loses his mojo or gets hurt? Forget about it. You'll be begging to dump his salary.

 

So if you think holding Q past about mid-February is a good idea you are betting on him to become Clayton Kershaw.

[steveno89]

I get the feeling if he is not traded by Soxfest we are going to camp with him. I am perfectly alright with that. It seems many don't believe in Quintana for whatever reason. I see him as a modern day Cliff Lee. He control the strike zone with great fastball location and has two good secondary pitches.

 

I think if the Sox liked Frances Martes the deal would be done. Fact is many around the industry are not sold on him. If the Astros refuse to trade Bregman than you really don't have a front line piece Houston can give you.

 

Sox are not stupid enough to take lesser prospects for Quintana

 

They clearly are holding firm on the cream of the crop

 

The Pittsburgh holdup is assuredly Meadows otherwise a trade would be done already. My guess is Pittsburgh keeps dancing around some combination of Glasnow or Keller plus Newman headlined deal. Sox are not warming up to that at all.

 

Houston is clearly not going to deal Bregman, they likely consider their top offer of Martes, Tucker, Paulino as "topped out". White Sox are not jumping at that.

 

Like the Sale deal, they are waiting the market out for the true marquee headliner, unless they get an outstanding depth package along the lines of: Glasnow, Bell, Newman, Diaz or Martes/Tucker/Reed/Perez

 

 

[steveno89]

I'm not saying trade him now for whatever you can get. I am saying whatever is too much to give up for Q this offseasom will still be too much to give up for Q in July, and next offseason, and next July on and on. Barring a miracle Cy Young caliber season this is peak Q value. Hahn can be as upset as he wants that "his price" isn't being met, but taking his ball and going home because New York won't give him their three top prospects just exposes the Sox to a ton of unnecessary risk for what is overwhelmingly likely to be no gain. What other teams are willing to give up determines Q's price not what you want to get for him.

 

You guys are acting like this market where there is one, maybe two, effective starters available will last forever....it wont. It probably expires sometime in May. And by July 31 Q will be one of a few guys and by next offseason he'll be one of many. That is the moment you'll be begging just to get Kevin Newman because the only teams you'll be negotiating with are the ones who rely on their prospects to survive and covet them as such. The big time clubs will all be spending money, because they would rather lose that than prospects.

 

And if Q just loses his mojo or gets hurt? Forget about it. You'll be begging to dump his salary.

 

So if you think holding Q past about mid-February is a good idea you are betting on him to become Clayton Kershaw.

 

The Sox have leverage. Keep calm.

 

The Sale deal took a YEAR of trade talks to finally happen...and the Sox got what they wanted for the most part. If Moncada had crushed the ball during his brief callup he would not be in our farm system right now.

 

If the Sox are going to burn their last blue chip trade piece, it had better be for premium, very high upside prospects.

[southsider2k5]

The Sox have leverage. Keep calm.

 

The Sale deal took a YEAR of trade talks to finally happen...and the Sox got what they wanted for the most part. If Moncada had crushed the ball during his brief callup he would not be in our farm system right now.

 

If the Sox are going to burn their last blue chip trade piece, it had better be for premium, very high upside prospects.

 

Not to mention there is an element of backbone to these type of deals. If other GMs know they can just wait you out, they won't ever give you their best deal because they know you will knuckle under. Sometimes you have to walk away to show that you will wait out the best offer.

[Thad Bosley]

Not to mention there is an element of backbone to these type of deals. If other GMs know they can just wait you out, they won't ever give you their best deal because they know you will knuckle under. Sometimes you have to walk away to show that you will wait out the best offer.

If ever there were a team positioned to do just that, it's the Sox right now.

[kwill]

God the Yankees rotation is hot garbage. I don't think they can really go anywhere even if they get Q.

[heirdog]

3 team trade:

 

White Sox trade Quintana to pirates and Robertson to Nats

Pirates trade Keller, Newman, Hayes and Diaz to white Sox and glasnow to Nats

Nats trade Robles to white Sox

[ChiSox59]

I'm not saying trade him now for whatever you can get. I am saying whatever is too much to give up for Q this offseasom will still be too much to give up for Q in July, and next offseason, and next July on and on. Barring a miracle Cy Young caliber season this is peak Q value. Hahn can be as upset as he wants that "his price" isn't being met, but taking his ball and going home because New York won't give him their three top prospects just exposes the Sox to a ton of unnecessary risk for what is overwhelmingly likely to be no gain. What other teams are willing to give up determines Q's price not what you want to get for him.

 

You guys are acting like this market where there is one, maybe two, effective starters available will last forever....it wont. It probably expires sometime in May. And by July 31 Q will be one of a few guys and by next offseason he'll be one of many. That is the moment you'll be begging just to get Kevin Newman because the only teams you'll be negotiating with are the ones who rely on their prospects to survive and covet them as such. The big time clubs will all be spending money, because they would rather lose that than prospects.

 

And if Q just loses his mojo or gets hurt? Forget about it. You'll be begging to dump his salary.

 

So if you think holding Q past about mid-February is a good idea you are betting on him to become Clayton Kershaw.

 

Lol.

 

Dude, time to step away from Soxtalk for a few days. You've lost your ability to view things objectively.

 

[Quin]

3 team trade:

 

White Sox trade Quintana to pirates and Robertson to Nats

Pirates trade Keller, Newman, Hayes and Diaz to white Sox and glasnow to Nats

Nats trade Robles to white Sox

 

Not a bad three-way deal, but I don't think Pirates part with all five for just Q. A sweetener would need to be thrown in.

 

But that deal would be an absolute monstrous haul.

 

Not to mention there is an element of backbone to these type of deals. If other GMs know they can just wait you out, they won't ever give you their best deal because they know you will knuckle under. Sometimes you have to walk away to show that you will wait out the best offer.

 

Similarly, Rick Hahn has established that if you don't meet his price, don't bother talking to him. The GMs go into these negotiations knowing they have to go up.

[steveno89]

3 team trade:

 

White Sox trade Quintana to pirates and Robertson to Nats

Pirates trade Keller, Newman, Hayes and Diaz to white Sox and glasnow to Nats

Nats trade Robles to white Sox

 

Pittsburgh would be parting with five prospects for Quintana, I don't see that happening

[heirdog]

Pittsburgh would be parting with five prospects for Quintana, I don't see that happening

 

Yes, a bit heavy from the Pitt side but as Quinarvy said, perhaps a sweetener from white Sox needed or remove Diaz. But idea was to allow Pitt to keep their untouchables in meadows and bell, while giving Nats enough to unload their untouchable in Robles.

 

I only posted so that Rick Hahn's "feedback guy" might see it and consider it

Edited January 11, 2017 by heirdog

[steveno89]

Yes, a bit heavy from the Pitt side but as Quinarvy said, perhaps a sweetener from white Sox needed or remove Diaz. But idea was to allow Pitt to keep their untouchables in meadows and bell, while giving Nats enough to unload their untouchable in Robles.

 

I only posted so that Rick Hahn's "feedback guy" might see it and consider it ��

 

Turning Robles into glasnow and Robertson would be a great move for the nationals.

 

Not sure why the pirates would do this deal unless more was coming their way

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Why aren't the Sox willing to take a bad contract from Pittsburgh to facilitate a deal? Like Antonio Bastardo for example. Salary relief might ultimately be a deciding factor for the Pirates on what they'd be willing to give up.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

I wonder if Atlanta would have interest in McCutcheon. They've been signing geriatric pitchers this winter. McCutch to Braves, Q to Pitt and we take two from column A and two from column B. We'd probably have to sweeten. The return for Atl, a reliever say, but it could break the stalemate.

[steveno89]

Why aren't the Sox willing to take a bad contract from Pittsburgh to facilitate a deal? Like Antonio Bastardo for example. Salary relief might ultimately be a deciding factor for the Pirates on what they'd be willing to give up.

 

Sox shouldn't have to take back a bad contract to trade Quintana

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Sox shouldn't have to take back a bad contract to trade Quintana

They shouldn't, but if money is the only thing keeping the Sox from getting a guy like Meadows or Bell, I absolutely do it.

[Bob Sacamano]

I wonder if Atlanta would have interest in McCutcheon. They've been signing geriatric pitchers this winter. McCutch to Braves, Q to Pitt and we take two from column A and two from column B. We'd probably have to sweeten. The return for Atl, a reliever say, but it could break the stalemate.

 

No room for McCutchen. Kemp Inciarte Markakis is their OF currently.

[Bob Sacamano]

They shouldn't, but if money is the only thing keeping the Sox from getting a guy like Meadows or Bell, I absolutely do it.

 

Well I'm assuming its because money isn't the only thing holding up the deal.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Well I'm assuming its because money isn't the only thing holding up the deal.

I'm just saying. Eating bad contracts for more prospects/draft picks is a crafty move a rebuilding team like the Sox should try to do once in awhile. I know that's not how they usually operate financially but Atlanta has employed a similar strategy and it benefited them.

[Con te Giolito]

3 team trade:

 

White Sox trade Quintana to pirates and Robertson to Nats

Pirates trade Keller, Newman, Hayes and Diaz to white Sox and glasnow to Nats

Nats trade Robles to white Sox

Something would have to be done to rectify this from the Pirates side, probably remove Hayes or Diaz (or both) but once that's done this makes sense for all involved.

 

I know I'm making a big fuss about not waiting to deal Quintana, but waiting to trade Robertson is even riskier. At least Quintana is good. Now the stakes with Robertson obviously are nowhere near as high as they are with Q, but using him as grease to get a bigger deal done makes sense. I would also do a similar deal with the Yankees for Rutherford.

[Chicago White Sox]

Something would have to be done to rectify this from the Pirates side, probably remove Hayes or Diaz (or both) but once that's done this makes sense for all involved.

 

I know I'm making a big fuss about not waiting to deal Quintana, but waiting to trade Robertson is even riskier. At least Quintana is good. Now the stakes with Robertson obviously are nowhere near as high as they are with Q, but using him as grease to get a bigger deal done makes sense. I would also do a similar deal with the Yankees for Rutherford.

What risk is there waiting to deal Robertson? The rumor from raBBit was that he doesn't have much of a market right now. Might as well give him a chance to rebuild his value. And relievers are the ideal chips to move at the deadline.

[Con te Giolito]

What risk is there waiting to deal Robertson? The rumor from raBBit was that he doesn't have much of a market right now. Might as well give him a chance to rebuild his value. And relievers are the ideal chips to move at the deadline.

Well the risk with him is he sucks so bad that nobody will even eat the contract and the Sox are stuck paying $24m to him for the next two years. May not sound like a ton of money in the context of baseball contracts, but it could help them make room in the budget for other things. Plus you dont have to watch Robertson blow 7 run leads to Kansas City (of all teams).

[bmags]

I am actually surprised Sox don't take a salary dump for drob.

[BlackSox13]

I'm just saying. Eating bad contracts for more prospects/draft picks is a crafty move a rebuilding team like the Sox should try to do once in awhile. I know that's not how they usually operate financially but Atlanta has employed a similar strategy and it benefited them.

I like the idea myself and was all for it until the Pirates remained connected to Q long after their reported need to trade Cutch first to open payroll space for Q. Heck, they are rumored to have made a three player offer for Q and all is quiet on the Cutch trade front. This tells me it's not about money, that was a ploy directed at the Yanks to get them to bite on Cutch in hopes of landing Rutherford as part of the return and then flip Rutherford as part of the trade for Q. This would have satisfied the Sox desire for Meadows whom would have taken over CF for Cutch.

 

And then Yankees pissed all over that parade.

 

Anyone see speculation on what Atlanta offered?

[Con te Giolito]

Atlanta is a curious bird in that they could just be on the periphery seeing if they can get a bargain or they could legitimately be willing to put together something serious and are just feeling out the situation with other teams. They defintely have the bullets.