Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[Chicago White Sox]

If that is really the case, they have already dug themselves a huge hole by not getting much in the way of position players at all.

Isn't that what you've been telling us since the Winter Meetings? That we needed to get some position players for Quintana or we'd be screwed?

[username]

Hopefully the Smyly move gives the Astros some anxiety. Would love to see Trumbo or Hammels head to the Rangers as well.

[southsider2k5]

Isn't that what you've been telling us since the Winter Meetings? That we needed to get some position players for Quintana or we'd be screwed?

 

Absolutely, though you just seemingly confirmed it by accident.

[Eminor3rd]

When do you realistically expect him to be a productive member of our team? How many years of control will we have left with the rest of our core by that point?

 

With a rebuild you want a core of players all hitting the majors in a short period of time. That's how you optimize your window of contention.

 

I don't think this is true. What teams want is a consistently productive farm that gives them options in any given year. That means talent at all levels. Remember that lo level talent often contributes to a contender by being traded at the right time.

[NCsoxfan]

Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match.

 

[steveno89]

Watch Seattle jump into the Q sweepstakes with an offer of Smith/Vogelbach/O'Neill/Lewis. Would be nice if Houston had a division rival involved in the negotiations.

 

I'd pass on that offer

 

We need to get at least one quality pitching prospect in return for Q

 

If the Sox were that high on Lewis they would have taken him over Collins, plus he is now coming off injury

 

I'd still waiting for the Meadows/Glasnow/Bell deal

[steveno89]

Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match.

 

Sox are asking for Torres + Frazier + Mateo/Judge/Kaprellian/Sheffield/Rutherford and the Yankees are balking at that price

 

 

[beautox]

Looking at Newman, Fangraphs gives him a greater than 50% chance of putting up 4 WAR or less total in the first six years of his career. Again, that is not the guy who you want to get as the top position player in a deal.

thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q.

 

Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit.

 

 

For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF.

[Bob Sacamano]

Man, we really needed a team like the Mets to overpay for McCutchen. And I mean like 3-4 really good prospects haha

Edited January 11, 2017 by soxfan2014

[shipps]

thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q.

 

Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit.

 

 

For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF.

 

Thats putting their eggs all in one basket with Q then. I get your point and I agree that its a risk they should be taking if they are serious about winning but its not a homerun with no risk for them if they do it either.

[Balta1701]

thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q.

 

Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit.

 

 

For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF.

I continue to think all this logic is correct and that by the time ST starts it will win out. However, until then, the Pirates can play the waiting game and see if anyone makes a move for McCutchen at a better price or if the White Sox drop their price, because as of right now there is no one making a legitimate offer for Q and they have no other major moves to make so why shouldn't they wait?

[Jake]

I can see the Yanks trading for Quintana, but I don't feel like they are a perfect match. I know they're up against the luxury tax and all that, but it just doesn't seem like their style to pay so handsomely for a player whose value is sky high in large part due to his contract.

[shipps]

Man, we really needed a team like the Mets to overpay for McCutchen.

 

Hahn is definitely not going to get his man in Meadows if they trade Cutch.

[Buehrlesque]

Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match.

This is a good point. I'm beginning to think the Yankees are now the most likely destination as well, but not til July or so. The Pirates and Astros seem unlikely to step up their mediocre offers — the Pirates because they're too dependent on cheap minor leaguers replacing expensive big leaguers, and the Astros because they're overvaluing their prospects and are for some reason hellbent on declaring all the good ones untouchable. The Yankees on the other hand don't want to make that big of a splash now, but will be willing to when they're in the thick of things, knowing they can replace a Clint Frazier for example more easily.

[Bob Sacamano]

Hahn is definitely not going to get his man in Meadows if they trade Cutch.

 

I was just saying for more pieces to pick from in a potential deal.

Edited January 11, 2017 by soxfan2014

[fathom]

Astros are the heavy favorites to me. pirates are always too scared to pull the trigger

[BlackSox13]

Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match.

I agree with the Yankees but I think it's more Hahn than the Yanks. IMHO, even if the Yanks take Frazier, Judge and Torres off the table they still Mateo, Rutherford, Andujar and Fowler as hitters to offer in a trade. Heck, I would take those four in a deal for Q.

 

I'd pass on that offer

 

We need to get at least one quality pitching prospect in return for Q

 

If the Sox were that high on Lewis they would have taken him over Collins, plus he is now coming off injury

 

I'd still waiting for the Meadows/Glasnow/Bell deal

I agree with the saying that a team can never have enough pitching but in this case I would prefer to see the Sox focus on getting hitters if possible. The Eaton trade kinda threw off the balance a bit by getting three pitchers in return for one hitter. I would be fine if the Q trade didn't involve any pitching at all.

 

The Sox took Collins ecause he's a catcher with power and OBP potential. As for Lewsi' injury, no biggie since he's a few years away and the Sox are rebuilding so they have plenty of time for a kid like Lewis.

 

If the Pirates traded Bell, Glasnow, Meadows for Q, it would not only shock the baseball world but also bring about the apocalypse.

[steveno89]

thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q.

 

Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit.

 

 

For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF.

 

There's a huge drop off between the caliber of a Meadows + Glasnow + Bell package to a Meadows + Keller + Hayes + ?

 

Despite not having any power, Newman is a better prospect than Hayes by a considerable amount at this point. Keller has had some injury issues and really is only coming off one good season this year.

 

To be motivated enough to move Quintana we need to be getting three premium players back. I do not consider Hayes to be elite. Keller or Glasnow, depending on who Sox scouts like would have to be in the deal

 

If the Pirates cannot stomach dealing Bell, then Newman + Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig would have to be included

 

 

[Balta1701]

Thats putting their eggs all in one basket with Q then. I get your point and I agree that its a risk they should be taking if they are serious about winning but its not a homerun with no risk for them if they do it either.

I totally disagree that this is "putting their eggs all in one basket with Q". The Pirates have so many guys under team control until after 2020 that this is a sensible move if they don't have to give up Bell. Their infield - Bell for 6 years, Kang for 3 years including an option, Mercer for 2 years, Harrison for 4 years including 2 options, has no room for anyone right now other than the occasional "David Freese" type signing. Their Outfield has Polanco under team control for 7 seasons counting two options (Jesus Christ) and Starling Marte under control for 5.

 

Their starting rotation has Taillon, Glasnow, and Kuhl - each with 3 years of control, Ivan Nova for 2 years as a "Searage will fix him guy".

 

Francisco Cervelli is under contract for 3 years.

 

They have major 2 players out of their entire lineup they have to worry about hitting free agency, McCutchen after 2018 and Cole after 2019.

 

Basically, they will have to make a decision on McCutchen next offseason. Honestly, if he had had a normal year for himself, I think they would have actually given him a big money extension this offseason - yes even though it's the Pirates - because that fanbase gets along great with him. That's why they don't want to give up Meadows, but they also don't want to have McCutchen put up a normal year and then not make a playoff run, because they'd be wasting their potential last year with him.

 

Basically, how is going for a pitcher "putting all your eggs in one basket" when so much of your lineup is under control for so long? They have 3 more drafts to rebuild anything they give up in this deal, and you always expect some people to develop unexpectedly and you still have the ability to get something for McCutchen next offseason if that is what you choose to do.

[beautox]

Thats putting their eggs all in one basket with Q then. I get your point and I agree that its a risk they should be taking if they are serious about winning but its not a homerun with no risk for them if they do it either.

I agree in a sense but at the same time there is less risk in a proven ML all star than the bust rate of prospects. Additionally they're getting major league wins now versus in the future, it becomes even more important for them as they're right on the fulcrum of the win curve where a Quintana and bounce back from McCutchen or break out from Bell puts them firmly in the wild card conversation and if the cubs have a championship hang over or stumble a shot at the central.

 

I continue to think all this logic is correct and that by the time ST starts it will win out. However, until then, the Pirates can play the waiting game and see if anyone makes a move for McCutchen at a better price or if the White Sox drop their price, because as of right now there is no one making a legitimate offer for Q and they have no other major moves to make so why shouldn't they wait?

 

Absolutely because there is no "deadline" everyone is weighing their options but if the Astro's rivals in the west continue to push all in (Mariners continue to trade, Angels sign Weiters, Rangers lock up Ross etc) it will apply some heat to Houston which in turn puts heat on the pirates as a last call will be coming before the season starts and all this still doesn't take into account the posturing by Cashman about "three elite" prospects trying to lower the price on Quintana.

[shipps]

I totally disagree that this is "putting their eggs all in one basket with Q". The Pirates have so many guys under team control until after 2020 that this is a sensible move if they don't have to give up Bell. Their infield - Bell for 6 years, Kang for 3 years including an option, Mercer for 2 years, Harrison for 4 years including 2 options, has no room for anyone right now other than the occasional "David Freese" type signing. Their Outfield has Polanco under team control for 7 seasons counting two options (Jesus Christ) and Starling Marte under control for 5.

 

Their starting rotation has Taillon, Glasnow, and Kuhl - each with 3 years of control, Ivan Nova for 2 years as a "Searage will fix him guy".

 

Francisco Cervelli is under contract for 3 years.

 

They have major 2 players out of their entire lineup they have to worry about hitting free agency, McCutchen after 2018 and Cole after 2019.

 

Basically, they will have to make a decision on McCutchen next offseason. Honestly, if he had had a normal year for himself, I think they would have actually given him a big money extension this offseason - yes even though it's the Pirates - because that fanbase gets along great with him. That's why they don't want to give up Meadows, but they also don't want to have McCutchen put up a normal year and then not make a playoff run, because they'd be wasting their potential last year with him.

 

Basically, how is going for a pitcher "putting all your eggs in one basket" when so much of your lineup is under control for so long? They have 3 more drafts to rebuild anything they give up in this deal, and you always expect some people to develop unexpectedly and you still have the ability to get something for McCutchen next offseason if that is what you choose to do.

 

That makes sense. Pirates what are you waiting for?

[striker]

Hopefully the Smyly move gives the Astros some anxiety. Would love to see Trumbo or Hammels head to the Rangers as well.

Takes an arm off the market, possibly two now as I assume it's less likely Rays trade Archer.

[Balta1701]

That makes sense. Pirates what are you waiting for?

Unless something shakes the Astros off of their perch or someone else enters the race, they have the ammunition to do this but they have nothing pushing them to do it right now. They have every reason to think the dynamics of the trade could change - someone could make a push for McCutchen as the FA market develops or the desperation level of the White Sox could change. Until there is competition for him, they can wait at least until ST closes in.

[steveno89]

I agree with the Yankees but I think it's more Hahn than the Yanks. IMHO, even if the Yanks take Frazier, Judge and Torres off the table they still Mateo, Rutherford, Andujar and Fowler as hitters to offer in a trade. Heck, I would take those four in a deal for Q.

 

 

I agree with the saying that a team can never have enough pitching but in this case I would prefer to see the Sox focus on getting hitters if possible. The Eaton trade kinda threw off the balance a bit by getting three pitchers in return for one hitter. I would be fine if the Q trade didn't involve any pitching at all.

 

The Sox took Collins ecause he's a catcher with power and OBP potential. As for Lewsi' injury, no biggie since he's a few years away and the Sox are rebuilding so they have plenty of time for a kid like Lewis.

 

If the Pirates traded Bell, Glasnow, Meadows for Q, it would not only shock the baseball world but also bring about the apocalypse.

 

I would reject the Mateo/Rutherford/Andujar/Fowler offer you proposed

 

Mateo's stock has slipped after a relatively disappointing 2016. He is not good enough to headline a Q deal by a longshot. Rutherford is a quality third piece, but he is at least 3 full seasons away from the majors...lots of risk in the Sox system not known for developing hitters

 

There is a big drop off in talent down to Andujar and Fowler

 

Give me Meadows + Glasnow + Bell and The Pirates can have Quintana. If Bell is a dealbreaker then Newman + Sox pick of Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig/Hearn/Holmes/Garcia/Etc

[southsider2k5]

Hahn is definitely not going to get his man in Meadows if they trade Cutch.

 

Not unless the McCutchen deal brings back a headliner the Sox would take.