Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[steveno89]

That makes sense. Pirates what are you waiting for?

 

I don't know what they are waiting for at this point

 

Quintana's pricetag is not going to drop, and they can replace the players they lose in the next 3 seasons

 

Take Bell out of the deal, fine

 

Put Meadows + Sox choice of Glasnow or Keller as a centerpiece + Newman + one more player and get a deal done

 

That would not impact the current Pirates roster at all, and land them 4 cheap seasons of Quintana in his prime

 

If I am the Pirates I strongly consider making that move.

[illinilaw08]

I don't know what they are waiting for at this point

 

Quintana's pricetag is not going to drop, and they can replace the players they lose in the next 3 seasons

 

Take Bell out of the deal, fine

 

Put Meadows + Sox choice of Glasnow or Keller as a centerpiece + Newman + one more player and get a deal done

 

That would not impact the current Pirates roster at all, and land them 4 cheap seasons of Quintana in his prime

 

If I am the Pirates I strongly consider making that move.

 

That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns.

 

But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q.

[tray]

Meadows remains the key to a deal with the Pirates. I think Bell is too risky, His defense is awful, he may not have enough power or hitting prowess to be a full time DH.

 

OK, I understand this may be heresy for some hoping for a 3-5 year rebuild, but if this rebuild plan fizzles and the Sox can't trade Q, Frazier, Abreu, and Melky for what they believe they are worth, what if the Sox decide to reverse the wheels from a total tank style rebuild?

Can the Sox compete for the Division, assuming they add a legit major league outfielder or two with Malky and Charlie Tilson in Left and Center?

Narvaez, Soto catching, and infield of Frazier, Tim Anderson, Moncada and Abreu ?

Rotation anchored by Quintana and Rodon?

 

Players can always be traded. It is not that easy to assemble a 25 man roster that is competitive and no guarantee that blowing it up gets that done any time soon. Maybe I'm just getting too nervous about this rebuilding plan and worried it won't work.

 

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Honestly, any deal with Meadows + either Keller/Newman makes me extremely happy. I literally don't even care what the others are. It could be Meadows/Keller + two members of the grounds crew.

[Balta1701]

That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns.

 

But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q.

That's basically the deal I want.

[Balta1701]

Meadows remains the key to a deal with the Pirates. I think Bell is too risky, His defense is awful, he may not have enough power or hitting prowess to be a full time DH.

 

OK, I understand this may be heresy for some hoping for a 3-5 year rebuild, but if this rebuild plan fizzles and the Sox can't trade Q, Frazier, Abreu, and Melky for what they believe they are worth, what if the Sox decide to reverse the wheels from a total tank style rebuild?

Can the Sox compete for the Division, assuming they add a legit major league outfielder or two with Malky and Charlie Tilson in Left and Center?

Narvaez, Soto catching, and infield of Frazier, Tim Anderson, Moncada and Abreu ?

Rotation anchored by Quintana and Rodon?

 

Players can always be traded. It is not that easy to assemble a 25 man roster that is competitive and no guarantee that blowing it up gets that done any time soon. Maybe I'm just getting too nervous about this rebuilding plan and worried it won't work.

No they cannot. Cleveland is a 90+ win team, the Royals and Tigers are probably 85+ win teams. That White Sox roster is a 70 win team. Moncada would have a good chance of hitting below .250 if called up right now and will probably struggle on defense.

[Eminor3rd]

Meadows remains the key to a deal with the Pirates. I think Bell is too risky, His defense is awful, he may not have enough power or hitting prowess to be a full time DH.

 

OK, I understand this may be heresy for some hoping for a 3-5 year rebuild, but if this rebuild plan fizzles and the Sox can't trade Q, Frazier, Abreu, and Melky for what they believe they are worth, what if the Sox decide to reverse the wheels from a total tank style rebuild?

Can the Sox compete for the Division, assuming they add a legit major league outfielder or two with Malky and Charlie Tilson in Left and Center?

Narvaez, Soto catching, and infield of Frazier, Tim Anderson, Moncada and Abreu ?

Rotation anchored by Quintana and Rodon?

 

Players can always be traded. It is not that easy to assemble a 25 man roster that is competitive and no guarantee that blowing it up gets that done any time soon. Maybe I'm just getting too nervous about this rebuilding plan and worried it won't work.

 

I would think you'd be way MORE nervous about a contention plan that is centered on last year's White Sox minus Adam Eaton and Chris Sale.

[tray]

I would think you'd be way MORE nervous about a contention plan that is centered on last year's White Sox minus Adam Eaton and Chris Sale.

 

Yea, that's what I thought. I'm just getting frustrated with no trades getting done.

 

[steveno89]

That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns.

 

But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q.

 

I don't consider Bell to be a top 20 prospect due to well below average defense at both OF and 1B

 

He should be an average mlb regular, but he actually ended up with a -0.5 WAR during his 45 big league game debut. He does not really have a position and is essentially a bat only player. The Pirates stuck him at 1B because they don't have anyone else to put there.

 

I like Bell as a third piece, but he is not a true top 20 prospect. I'd rank him more around the #50-70 range

[Eminor3rd]

Yea, that's what I thought. I'm just getting frustrated with no trades getting done.

 

Yeah, we all are, I think.

[BlackSox13]

I would reject the Mateo/Rutherford/Andujar/Fowler offer you proposed

 

Mateo's stock has slipped after a relatively disappointing 2016. He is not good enough to headline a Q deal by a longshot. Rutherford is a quality third piece, but he is at least 3 full seasons away from the majors...lots of risk in the Sox system not known for developing hitters

 

There is a big drop off in talent down to Andujar and Fowler

 

Give me Meadows + Glasnow + Bell and The Pirates can have Quintana. If Bell is a dealbreaker then Newman + Sox pick of Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig/Hearn/Holmes/Garcia/Etc

You're concerned about the Sox ability to develop a hitter like Rutherford but trust in them to develop the likes of Newman, Craig, Tucker, Hayes, etc? If anything, a talent like Rutherford would be easier for the Sox to develop than the Pirates hitters mentioned.

 

Meadows/Glasnow/Bell isn't happening and your second proposal headlined by Newman is worse than what the Yanks have to offer. I wouldn't say Mateo's stock dropped considering he was just 20/21 years of age during his first full season at high A ball. That's still a bit young and he probably hit well enough to begin at AA this year. He's got the arm, glove and blazing speed, none of which Newman can offer. Andujar was very young (21) in his first jump to AA last season so I think he's still below the radar as a propsect but looks to have a cannon for 3B, nice k/BB rates and there's still power projected in his bat. Fowler I think is even more under-rated as he was 21 years old at AA and put up some impressive numbers. Going by Fowler's scouting reports and last year's stats, dude reminds me alot of a young Brett Gardner. Not as good as Gardner at walks but has a stronger arm.

[Con te Giolito]

If Meadows isn't on the table the Sox are getting nothing from the Pirates that they can not easily find somewhere else, also without having to deal with the Bucs cheapass owner or fraidy-cat GM. The Yankees, Astros or Braves can beat a Glasnow or Keller headlined deal just by getting out of bed. If Newman were somehow the headliner you'd have 75% of the league on the phone. And then the once you get past the top 5 the Pirates system just becomes completely uninteresting.

 

They are probably gong to trade Meadows before they trade Bell because Bell is their starting 1b. I understand not wanting to trade thier starting 1b if they're trying to compete now (which is an attitude the Q move would signal), especially when that position has been as much as a problem as it has for the Pirates. As far as I'm concerned he's out, not because he's ~~untouchable~~ but just because it doesn't make sense. Sox dont need him, Pirates do.

 

The Sox could work something out with Luhnow tomorrow that I think most of us would find acceptable, and contrary to what the media has been saying New York can too. I like what Atlanta can put together the more I think about it, but that deal wouldn't go over as well. The Rockies hypothetical even has appeal too. The only two ways the Pirates join that club is if they deal Cutch for something the Sox would want, which doesn't seem possible because Cutch likely wont fetch a top 100 tier prospect, or they include Meadows. The fact that they are still involved indicates, to me at least, that Meadows is at least being discussed. If he wasn't the Pirates would be out.

[ptatc]

This is a good point. I'm beginning to think the Yankees are now the most likely destination as well, but not til July or so. The Pirates and Astros seem unlikely to step up their mediocre offers — the Pirates because they're too dependent on cheap minor leaguers replacing expensive big leaguers, and the Astros because they're overvaluing their prospects and are for some reason hellbent on declaring all the good ones untouchable. The Yankees on the other hand don't want to make that big of a splash now, but will be willing to when they're in the thick of things, knowing they can replace a Clint Frazier for example more easily.

I don't think a trade to the Yankees will happen. Cashman has spent too much time convincing other people in the FO that they need to build from within. I don't think he will abandon it. He will follow the cubs model. Allows the hitters to develop. Then when the time is right in 2 years, go buy Harper and pitching.

[steveno89]

That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns.

 

But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q.

 

Quintana's 4th season of cheap control makes him worth just as much, if not more, than Sale

 

Glasnow is out of the top 10 in my book due to unsolved control issues, Meadows moves into fringe top 5

 

Newman's value is tied to him sticking at SS, he is considerably less valuable at 2B

 

Bell is a butcher defensively, unplayable in the OF and awful at 1B. Bat only player who has not shown tons of power as of yet.

 

I don't think Meadows + Glasnow + Bell is as crazy as it sounds

[Con te Giolito]

Quintana's 4th season of cheap control makes him worth just as much, if not more, than Sale

No way.

[ptatc]

No way.

Agreed. People can spin it all they want. Try to boost Q's value in their minds. There is no way Q is as valuable as Sale.

[steveno89]

You're concerned about the Sox ability to develop a hitter like Rutherford but trust in them to develop the likes of Newman, Craig, Tucker, Hayes, etc? If anything, a talent like Rutherford would be easier for the Sox to develop than the Pirates hitters mentioned.

 

Meadows/Glasnow/Bell isn't happening and your second proposal headlined by Newman is worse than what the Yanks have to offer. I wouldn't say Mateo's stock dropped considering he was just 20/21 years of age during his first full season at high A ball. That's still a bit young and he probably hit well enough to begin at AA this year. He's got the arm, glove and blazing speed, none of which Newman can offer. Andujar was very young (21) in his first jump to AA last season so I think he's still below the radar as a propsect but looks to have a cannon for 3B, nice k/BB rates and there's still power projected in his bat. Fowler I think is even more under-rated as he was 21 years old at AA and put up some impressive numbers. Going by Fowler's scouting reports and last year's stats, dude reminds me alot of a young Brett Gardner. Not as good as Gardner at walks but has a stronger arm.

 

My second proposal was Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + one of the listed players to round out the package

 

Fowler, to me, looks like his ceiling will be a 4th outfielder at the mlb level, possibly a below average regular? He is solid defensively, but I am not sold on the bat or power at all

[ptatc]

My second proposal was Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + one of the listed players to round out the package

 

Fowler, to me, looks like his ceiling will be a 4th outfielder at the mlb level, possibly a below average regular? He is solid defensively, but I am not sold on the bat or power at all

I don't think there is any chance the Pirates give up 3 out of their top 5 prospects for Q. They may get 2 of those and other pieces.

[steveno89]

Agreed. People can spin it all they want. Try to boost Q's value in their minds. There is no way Q is as valuable as Sale.

 

Perhaps not more valuable, but to mid market ball clubs like Pittsburgh? His 4th season of cheap control is huge

 

My point was that Quintana absolutely should get a return very comparable to what Sale brought us

 

Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + a flyer fit the Sale deal: Moncada + Kopech + Basabe + Diaz mold

[steveno89]

I don't think there is any chance the Pirates give up 3 out of their top 5 prospects for Q. They may get 2 of those and other pieces.

 

People were shocked when we got both Giolito and Lopez for Eaton. Sox fans were convinced Washington would only deal one of them, not both

[peavy44]

I am honestly tired of hearing about rumors but no active this is getting annoying.

[ptatc]

Perhaps not more valuable, but to mid market ball clubs like Pittsburgh? His 4th season of cheap control is huge

 

My point was that Quintana absolutely should get a return very comparable to what Sale brought us

 

Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + a flyer fit the Sale deal: Moncada + Kopech + Basabe + Diaz mold

i disagree. They won't get the same package for Q they got for Sale. He isn't as good and the 1 year doesn't make that much of a difference.

[Balta1701]

I am honestly tired of hearing about rumors but no active this is getting annoying.

Strap in. I would be surprised if this was done a month from now.

[ptatc]

People were shocked when we got both Giolito and Lopez for Eaton. Sox fans were convinced Washington would only deal one of them, not both

Yes, that was crazy. i don't think most Gm's are that nuts, especially one with the budget constraints of Pitt.

[bmags]

Strap in. I would be surprised if this was done a month from now.

 

It's funny but it's only been 5 days since morosi's astros tweets and us lining up astros offers then the rumbunter tweets and its back to pirates.

 

Best/most annoying part about all of this is the shifting every five days to a new headliner.