LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...bush_hamas_dc_1 Great, all we need is MORE suicide bombers angry at us. Way to go George! "Taking out Saddam will make us safe from terrorism." Yeah, sure, right George. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Ever notice that yours, and cwsox "whiny posts" get almost no reaction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Ever notice that yours, and cwsox "whiny posts" get almost no reaction? Like I said, intellectually, there aren't many that can handle him, so it is either personal insults or ignore Apu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Like I said, intellectually, there aren't many that can handle him, so it is either personal insults or ignore Apu. The fact is that the things that are posted are either mindless propaganda like cwsox's "fear & loathing" article or personal twists of news stories like Apu on this thread. He fails to realize that these terrorist groups are trying to accomplish two things with this bulls*** that they love to spew. First off, they want the American public to feel that Islam, not Hamas, is irate not with America and the west in general, but rather at GWB. These statements were intended to make the general public sway further away from voting for Bush, hurt his popularity, and ultimately get him out of office. Hmmm, first president EVER to declare WAR on these terrorist groups and actually do something about it. You think that Hamas wants to see GWB re-elected??? Hell no they don't. They can get Clark or Dean in office and have free reign over the region again. Secondly, perhaps I'm wrong, but there hasn't been a single Al Queda/Hamas/Jihad/etc. suicide attack on US soil since 9/11. I guess something is working. I definitely lean heavily to the right, not a neo-con, and am not very happy with Bush's term thus far, nor his republican controlled congress for that matter. I'm not trying to defend the man or his job thus far. I just think it's important to look beyond the face value of some of these clerics' statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Like I said, intellectually, there aren't many that can handle him, so it is either personal insults or ignore Apu. Or....some of the people here may actually have lives........ Myself excluded of course, cuz i responded.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 The fact is that the things that are posted are either mindless propaganda like cwsox's "fear & loathing" article or personal twists of news stories like Apu on this thread. He fails to realize that these terrorist groups are trying to accomplish two things with this bulls*** that they love to spew. First off, they want the American public to feel that Islam, not Hamas, is irate not with America and the west in general, but rather at GWB. These statements were intended to make the general public sway further away from voting for Bush, hurt his popularity, and ultimately get him out of office. Hmmm, first president EVER to declare WAR on these terrorist groups and actually do something about it. You think that Hamas wants to see GWB re-elected??? Hell no they don't. They can get Clark or Dean in office and have free reign over the region again. Secondly, perhaps I'm wrong, but there hasn't been a single Al Queda/Hamas/Jihad/etc. suicide attack on US soil since 9/11. I guess something is working. I definitely lean heavily to the right, not a neo-con, and am not very happy with Bush's term thus far, nor his republican controlled congress for that matter. I'm not trying to defend the man or his job thus far. I just think it's important to look beyond the face value of some of these clerics' statements. Well, we supported the terrorist Moujhadeen in the 1980s [Hell, we even trained bin Laden and provided him with everything he needed]. We supported Pinochet in Chile. We supported the Shah of Iran and helped to polarize the country enough to where the Ayatollah was able to take power. [uS endorsed the Shah murdering moderates and the Ayatollah did the same thing] We sold weapons to Saddam and the Ayatollah during the Iran-Iraq war, we gave the Taliban $100+ million in pre 9/11 2001 in "aid" and there are many other cases of the US embracing human rights abusing terror groups when it is politcally convenient in our short-sighted US foreign policy move of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't feel safer with the war on terror. We haven't caught any terrorist with the PATRIOT Act. We haven't caught Osama bin Laden. There has been a spiked increase in membership in Al Qaeda since our invasion of Iraq. Hell, we haven't even caught the Anthrax killer...but we have time to put Tommy Chong in prison for 9 months for selling bongs. Also, we as Americans can look past a lot of this cleric's statements, but people that ascribe to Wahhabi fundamentalist Islam won't...and that's what makes all the difference. The Osama Clock 737 Days and Counting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 The fact is that the things that are posted are either mindless propaganda like cwsox's "fear & loathing" article or personal twists of news stories like Apu on this thread. ding. i just skip right over them, this one i only looked at once there were responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Why do you skip over all of his posts, many of them have very interesting information. Seems like ignorance to me, you have to look at both sides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 cause i have better things to do than sit here for four hours while i read one of his "State of Apu's mind" addresses. if i did that i would be ignoring some other, more important aspect of life, and that would be ignorance too HOLY s*** WE CAN'T ESCAPE IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Like I said, intellectually, there aren't many that can handle him, so it is either personal insults or ignore Apu. You've got to be kidding. Intellectually? Your bar is not set that high or perhaps you are easily intimidated. There is nothing original here. It was tiresome years ago and even more so now. I see a lot of bluff and bluster and attempts to intimidate and indocrtrinate, very little real debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 You've got to be kidding. Intellectually? Your bar is not set that high or perhaps you are easily intimidated. There is nothing original here. It was tiresome years ago and even more so now. I see a lot of bluff and bluster and attempts to intimidate and indocrtrinate, very little real debate. Yossarian, did you get the PM that I sent you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Great, all we need is MORE suicide bombers angry at us. Way to go George! "Taking out Saddam will make us safe from terrorism." Yeah, sure, right George. :fyou I thought Islamic Terrorists declared war on us well before 09/11..... Pan Am, Marine barracks bombings, the WTC bombing, the USS Cole, the embassy's bombings, etc., etc., etc. You have a warped view of the world dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 I thought Islamic Terrorists declared war on us well before 09/11..... Pan Am, Marine barracks bombings, the WTC bombing, the USS Cole, the embassy's bombings, etc., etc., etc. You have a warped view of the world dude. HAMAS officially declared against us, CK. And one quick question CK. When we overthrow democratically elected governments, funnel money illegally into foreign election campaigns, drop cluster bombs etc. etc. etc. why is that not considered terrorism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I thought Islamic Terrorists declared war on us well before 09/11..... Pan Am, Marine barracks bombings, the WTC bombing, the USS Cole, the embassy's bombings, etc., etc., etc. You have a warped view of the world dude. HAMAS officially declared against us, CK. And one quick question CK. When we overthrow democratically elected governments, funnel money illegally into foreign election campaigns, drop cluster bombs etc. etc. etc. why is that not considered terrorism? What democratically elected government have we overthrown recently? I may sound ignorant but I honestly can't remember any from the last 10 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I thought Islamic Terrorists declared war on us well before 09/11..... Pan Am, Marine barracks bombings, the WTC bombing, the USS Cole, the embassy's bombings, etc., etc., etc. You have a warped view of the world dude. HAMAS officially declared against us, CK. And one quick question CK. When we overthrow democratically elected governments, funnel money illegally into foreign election campaigns, drop cluster bombs etc. etc. etc. why is that not considered terrorism? What democratically elected government have we overthrown recently? I may sound ignorant but I honestly can't remember any from the last 10 years or so. I think he's referring to Iraq who's "democracy" re-elected Hussein by a whopping 99% of the Iraqi vote. The 1% who dissented, if anyone did, probably couldn't tell you why they did it cause they're dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 HAMAS officially declared against us, CK. BFD dude. Since when is HAMAS a government of the people they represent? They're not. They're an ideal. That's all. As if HAMAS and the US were buddy-buddy before Iraq right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 The political Islamists of Hamas may as well declare war on us. There really is no changing the warped version of Islam these guys practice and preach. The only end to this "Fundamentalist" terrorism begins in a reeducation of the Middle Eastern populations. These people have heard of democracy and realize that Islam in a more sane interpretation can work together with it. The reeducation has to come from Middle Eastern society and not from the United States. Until then, the terrorists' version of war is not something that can be stopped. The only people that could overthrow Lenin were the Russians. The only people that can kill Bin Laden are the al Qaeda. The only people that can bring peace to the Middle East are the Middle Easterners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 What democratically elected government have we overthrown recently? I may sound ignorant but I honestly can't remember any from the last 10 years or so. The current de-classified records only go up until the late 1960s/early 1970s. So the links of de-stabilizing governments are a little bit harder to make. But I was speaking more along the lines of the history of the United States [Chile, Guatemala, etc. etc. etc.] I was also thinking about our bi-weekly bombings of Iraq since 1991. The most UN officials ever left in protest over the UK and US doing this by themselves with no authority. I was thinking about how we shot missiles into a Sudanese factory we thought was producing VX gas but it was really making medicine. http://www.counterpunch.org/boyle0902.html is about US war crimes during Gulf War I. There are a lot more examples of stuff I can think of, I just have to get to a class in a few minutes so I'm a bit strapped for time. It's just a very hard pill to swallow being told that the US is a force for democracy and all that, when you look at our history of intervention and it's absolutely not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 The political Islamists of Hamas may as well declare war on us. There really is no changing the warped version of Islam these guys practice and preach. The only end to this "Fundamentalist" terrorism begins in a reeducation of the Middle Eastern populations. These people have heard of democracy and realize that Islam in a more sane interpretation can work together with it. The reeducation has to come from Middle Eastern society and not from the United States. Until then, the terrorists' version of war is not something that can be stopped. The only people that could overthrow Lenin were the Russians. The only people that can kill Bin Laden are the al Qaeda. The only people that can bring peace to the Middle East are the Middle Easterners. Only problem is that the US won't allow a theocracy to be elected. Hence, why we picked Ahmed Chalabi to lead the Council in Iraq. The War on Terror is a joke. There is no way that you can go in and end up saying "We killed all the bad guys. Everybody loves us again." It's like having a war on Jealousy. It's an unwinnable war and an endless war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I remember Dan Bernstein whining on the radio that we once had the world's sympathy and now everyone hates us...what happened??? I'll tell him and others who think like him. People have sympathy for victims. I don't want my country to be a victim, and thankfully we have people who feel the same way. People feel bad for victims. Sympathy and fear/respect are polar opposites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 what i find amusing in most of apus rants on the US against the mid east is that he never mentions who gave them( the mid east) the weapons, money, training and such to begin with..... if i recall right, we trained guys like bin laden to help the fight against the russians in the 70's, gave them our total support and guys like saddam were once our friends if you think back....and today they are using those very tatics against us.......thats the thanks we get for tryin to keep them safe and sound back in the day huh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 what i find amusing in most of apus rants on the US against the mid east is that he never mentions who gave them( the mid east) the weapons, money, training and such to begin with..... if i recall right, we trained guys like bin laden to help the fight against the russians in the 70's, gave them our total support and guys like saddam were once our friends if you think back....and today they are using those very tatics against us.......thats the thanks we get for tryin to keep them safe and sound back in the day huh..... What kills me is that the left throws "we trained bin laden" or "we supported saddam" against the US effort to stop these guys now. So, what are we supposed to do, let the situation be? Not fix it? Every government makes mistakes and no matter how calculated a move may be in planning, those calculations can never be 100% accurate. I doubt very much that the US had any kind of idea what kind of leader Hussein would become over time. Now that we know, we had to rectify a situation that we helped to create. Personally, if I make a mistake and it ends up hurting those around me, I'm going to do everything I can to right my wrong. I guess Apu and Co. don't see things that way. Remember, to the left there is no right and wrong, good or evil, only perception and vantage point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I guess Apu and Co. don't see things that way. thats exactly why i threw that in there.... they never use the most obvious reasons to uphold their ramblings....i agree with you totaly... if we did a wrong we need to correct it.....period....and thats whats trying to be accomplished in this....somehow though that point is being missed...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 what i find amusing in most of apus rants on the US against the mid east is that he never mentions who gave them( the mid east) the weapons, money, training and such to begin with..... if i recall right, we trained guys like bin laden to help the fight against the russians in the 70's, gave them our total support and guys like saddam were once our friends if you think back....and today they are using those very tatics against us.......thats the thanks we get for tryin to keep them safe and sound back in the day huh..... Actually, HSC, the Moujhadeen didn't really like us at all. We were just giving them money, training and weapons because we both hated the Russians. It wasn't us and them allied as anything. It was simple short sighted "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." even though the Moujhadeen really weren't. And I've mentioned that plenty of times before. And for the idea that we didn't know Saddam would be evil? I guess selling him a bunch of chemical weapons and then in 1988 AFTER Halabja we STILL gave him military and economic aid. At the time the US State Dept. even told it's diplomats to say that Iran was the perpetrator of it so Saddam wouldn't get in trouble. [source: Weapons of Mass Deception: Uses of Propaganda in the War in Iraq by Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber which they got from Joost R. Hiltermann's article "America Didn't Seem to Mind Poison Gas" International Herald Tribune, Jan. 17 2003 http://www.iht.com/articles/83625.html ] http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ and here is a little bit of information from government documents that got FOIA'ed and there is even a video of our pal Rummy shaking hands with Saddam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 The fact is that the things that are posted are either mindless propaganda like cwsox's "fear & loathing" article or personal twists of news stories like Apu on this thread. He fails to realize that these terrorist groups are trying to accomplish two things with this bulls*** that they love to spew. First off, they want the American public to feel that Islam, not Hamas, is irate not with America and the west in general, but rather at GWB. These statements were intended to make the general public sway further away from voting for Bush, hurt his popularity, and ultimately get him out of office. Hmmm, first president EVER to declare WAR on these terrorist groups and actually do something about it. You think that Hamas wants to see GWB re-elected??? Hell no they don't. They can get Clark or Dean in office and have free reign over the region again. Secondly, perhaps I'm wrong, but there hasn't been a single Al Queda/Hamas/Jihad/etc. suicide attack on US soil since 9/11. I guess something is working. I definitely lean heavily to the right, not a neo-con, and am not very happy with Bush's term thus far, nor his republican controlled congress for that matter. I'm not trying to defend the man or his job thus far. I just think it's important to look beyond the face value of some of these clerics' statements. Mmmbeeer, I agree that Bush (I hate Bush for his action in Nam however) did good starting the war on terror. Thats what I hated about Clinton. 19 Americans died in Somalia and Clinton pulled out. That gave Al-Qaeda momentum and a feel of victory. Clinton convinced Al-Qaeda that all they had to do was kill a few people and wed run like pussies. Bush changed that tho. And really, the fact that since 9/11 there have been no terror attacks on US soil, means little. The last terror attack by an Arab on American soil before 9/11 was the WTC bombing in 1993. Id say more importantly that since 9/11 there have been no hugely devastating terror attacks anywhere on American forces. Before there was basically a yearly attack (the Cole, the Embassies and so on). Since, there has been 2 years and 13 days and there have been only scattered terrorist attacks in Iraq and such, quite a few of which were from Iraqis during the ongoing Gulf War. It is obvious that Al-Qaeda as been weakened. It is also rumored that bin Laden is dead or ailing and Zawahiri is taking over. That may not be due to us but it still hurts the organization. I strongly believe that people like apu who think that nothing should be done about terrorists hurt American society more than warmongers like Bush... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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