caulfield12 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/...ediocre-veteran http://www.espn.com/blog/the-gms-office/in...r/post?id=13725 Thought it was worth a further look, with all the talk about trading Abreu, Cabrera and even Frazier (albeit to a lesser extent) fitting pretty closely with this profile (not to mention Dunn and LaRoche). We have definitely seen more of a MLB trend towards multi-dimensional players with defensive skills emerge, compared to the slew of 1B/DH and corner outfield types. Of course, attempting to "reload" every year with bargain veterans has become one of the themes for the Sox in recent years. Losing some of those 2-3 war/cost-controlled players like Semien and possibly Thompson has hurt a bit too, in the sense of that current trend being to find 5-6 of those young guys to surround 2-3 higher paid superstars in a line-up. Of course, you could argue that if we just picked Torres or Eloy Jimenez instead of Adolfo we'd be in even better shape than having Semien at 3B and Thompson in CF. At any rate, this filling out the roster with cheaper younger players instead of costlier declining veterans is coming at the perfect time for the rebuild (and Hahn, as opposed to KW). And even if we had rebuilt after 2013, we arguably wouldn't have the centerpieces in Q and Eaton to trade, so there's that positive of trying to compete every year. Edited January 14, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Illustrates fairly well why it will be hard to move any of them. If they don't project out to a decent WAR, the power just doesn't matter. Hitting home runs isn't enough anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I see some conversation starting elsewhere about the validity of some stats particularly WAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Melky, Abreu, and Frazier all put up over 1.0 WAR last year, and only Melky was 32. Turned 32 in August. So it really doesn't apply. But teams are getting away from paying the Moss types $8 million without a doubt. If he would be willing to play for a million or two, I doubt he would have a problem finding a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 14, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) I see some conversation starting elsewhere about the validity of some stats particularly WAR I do not foresee this conversation taking place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 30+ year old players are not as bankable as they used to be. If I thought Todd Frazier was going to repeat the same season he had last year and I were a GM with a hole at 1b or 3b I'd be buying on him. I wouldn't give up what the White Sox gave up a year ago, but I'd be interested. But I'm not convinced Frazier will get better or even stay the same. Better off taking my chances with a cheap FA or, better yet, an internal option and reevaluating at the deadline. Sox will be able to dump Frazier and Melky then without much effort, but obviously the Sox would prefer to deal them now to free up PA's for guys part of the long term plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 14, 2017 -> 08:22 PM) 30+ year old players are not as bankable as they used to be. If I thought Todd Frazier was going to repeat the same season he had last year and I were a GM with a hole at 1b or 3b I'd be buying on him. I wouldn't give up what the White Sox gave up a year ago, but I'd be interested. But I'm not convinced Frazier will get better or even stay the same. Better off taking my chances with a cheap FA or, better yet, an internal option and reevaluating at the deadline. Sox will be able to dump Frazier and Melky then without much effort, but obviously the Sox would prefer to deal them now to free up PA's for guys part of the long term plan. what is better to you? Not to keep a back nd forth going here on different players, but what do we realistically think we have to see in performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Frazier had an off year for him but he still put up a 2 4 WAR. He isn't a bad player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jan 14, 2017 -> 01:53 PM) Illustrates fairly well why it will be hard to move any of them. If they don't project out to a decent WAR, the power just doesn't matter. Hitting home runs isn't enough anymore. (Looks over at Chris Carter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 what is better to you? Not to keep a back nd forth going here on different players, but what do we realistically think we have to see in performance? What do you mean? Like how well Frazier will have to play to be traded during the season? If that's what you're asking I think he just has to be on track to do what he did last year and teams will come calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 14, 2017 -> 02:49 PM) What do you mean? Like how well Frazier will have to play to be traded during the season? If that's what you're asking I think he just has to be on track to do what he did last year and teams will come calling. Frazier could be a solid source of power and defense at the deadline. Getting his stat line to be more like .250 avg .315 obj would help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I think more of this trend could be age-related. We've seen over the past 10 years a trend towards fewer and fewer players being productive in their 30s, especially after 33 or so. Some people look at the trends and say the younger players are better than they used to be, but I suspect just as or more important is the implementation of steroid testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 14, 2017 -> 02:39 PM) (Looks over at Chris Carter) Chris Carter is an average at best baseball player. Posted a .9 WAR last year. There's a reason no one wants to sign him. Excellent example of a guy that no one knows how to gauge because his meaningful stats are so bad. Edited January 15, 2017 by Deadpool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-2017-all-...-014254782.html Pretty surprising Hernandez, Blanton, Logan and Hochevar are still unsigned for some team's bullpen. At any rate, more damming evidence for and why our veterans aren't going anywhere. Also makes more of a question mark why they bothered to keep Lawrie when Saladino could be a key part of the rebuild, but that's probably due to not being able to move Frazier as much as anything against Tyler. And there will be plenty of DH at-bats available as well. Wonder if Morneau or Navarro will just retire...? You'd think a playoff team in the AL could use a platoon DH bat. Of course, Alvarez, Carter, Moss and Napoli are all still out there, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I think the players union hurt themselves by only focusing on veteran pay and neglecting young players (and minor leaguers). of course veterans have more power in the union and the thinking that if young players are underpaid the veterans get a larger share of the cake did work for a long time but GMs now have realized that and they try to replace as many veterans as possible with cheap young players. the really good veterans still get paid but the overall salary in MLB drastically went down the last decade (the actual salary went up but the share of the overall revenue the players get went down a lot (from close to 60 to under 50 percent). to stop that MLBPA needs to start fighting for the rights of young players who are essentially slaves now and maybe even give up some of the veteran players rights to get what they want. of course it is nice that there is no salary cap or maximum salary but that only applies to a handful of great veterans. the majority of veterans would benefit from young players getting a salary more in line with their market value because that makes veterans more attractive again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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