Jack Parkman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) This. Trading Rodon now would be idiotic. Did anyone read my entire post? You know, the one where I said that if they believe he is going to be an ace then Hahn should wait for him to prove it before trading him with 2-3 years of control left? And if they think his control problems say otherwise then they should move him now while that "possibility" is still there, and he does not have a track record of solid but unspectacular performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) This. Trading Rodon now would be idiotic. You mean we're not planning on a 14 year rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Rodon should undoubtedly be available for the right deal. I have serious doubts they would get the right offer for Rodon, but if they do they should take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:07 PM) Did anyone read my entire post? You know, the one where I said that if they believe he is going to be an ace then Hahn should wait for him to prove it before trading him with 2-3 years of control left? And if they think his control problems say otherwise then they should move him now while that "possibility" is still there, and he does not have a track record of solid but unspectacular performance? I read it and defended you haha I think the front office believes he will develop and he will either lead the rotation his last year or two (IF the rebuild is working) or he will get trades with a couple years left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Let's clear something up: trading Rodon is not idiotic. If someone offered you significantly more value than he is worth, you'd jump on it in a second. The Diamondbacks gave up Dansby Swanson and Endar Inciarte for Shelby Miller. I'd certainly take those two for Rodon right now. Trading him for what the normal market would pay for him right now, that's a little closer to idiotic, but I wouldn't say it would be totally idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) This. Trading Rodon now would be idiotic. Unless offered an overwhelming return (not happening), Rodon won't be going anywhere Hahn is wisely holding out until one club caves. If Quintana was being paid market value, the packages would likely be somewhat of a compromise. But with his cheap contract the return should be massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) I still think its going to be the Yankees that trade for Q. When you think about the teams that typically arent afraid of doing what it takes to put a lot on the line with elite prospects in a trade to get what they want/need you dont think of teams like the Astro's and Pirates. They havent been willing to in the past and wont be in the future. Let them keep placing their penny bets at the slot machine hoping to cash in on the big 5,000 jackpot instead of playing at the 20 dollar slots trying to hit a game changing jackpot. I think the Yankees are a team that can walk in and throw a trump card down on any other deal that is offered. Will they? That is the question. I still can't buy the Yankees being content to watch from the sidelines for a number of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:08 PM) Rodon should undoubtedly be available for the right deal. I have serious doubts they would get the right offer for Rodon, but if they do they should take it. What are you hoping to get? He's young enough he makes it through any rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:08 PM) Rodon should undoubtedly be available for the right deal. I have serious doubts they would get the right offer for Rodon, but if they do they should take it. Yah - what the rest of the cream of the crop guys are available for. No one is going to pay that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Edwards Shot Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:50 PM) The best of the best Boras clients always go to FA......If you believe in Rodon,you believe he will be an ace, a bonafide #1. If that is the case, he's most definitely going to FA. That is why you trade him. Also, his control window is 1 year more than Quintana IIRC, so if it makes sense that the Sox' contention window does not include Quintana, then it does not include Rodon either. Quintana is signed through 2020, Rodon is under control through 2021 so the window really is not there. IMO Hahn should wait to trade him until he is an established TOR guy, then pounce similar to Sale. OK, thanks. So it's not about any feuds with Boras, it's about the certainty of the player going to FA and being unable to sign them and keep them around. It makes sense. I didn't think about that. I guess I'm not GM material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Agreed. For example, I think the "right deal" for Rodon is someone like Bregman+? Same upside of position player and a little extra tax for being dumb and not taking him themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 If someone offered a what would be considered a "good" Quintana deal that we've been discussing the past month for Rodon I'd take it in an instant. Who knows, maybe that's something that is on the table. I doubt it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:12 PM) OK, thanks. So it's not about any feuds with Boras, it's about the certainty of the player going to FA and being unable to sign them and keep them around. It makes sense. I didn't think about that. I guess I'm not GM material. Yes, exactly. A player hires Boras for one reason: To get paid in FA. They usually fire him if they aren't a TOR starter or superstar position player, and stay put with their team. See John Danks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:08 PM) Rodon should undoubtedly be available for the right deal. I have serious doubts they would get the right offer for Rodon, but if they do they should take it. Rodon for a position player? Not saying I want to see it happen, but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:12 PM) Agreed. For example, I think the "right deal" for Rodon is someone like Bregman+? Same upside of position player and a little extra tax for being dumb and not taking him themselves. Astros would be insane to offer Bregman plus for rodon I think Rodon can break out this year in a big way, and that he will be important for the white sox future the next five seasons. I'd much rather ride out his prime years than deal him for less now. Hahn and co are waiting on offers like: meadows + Glasnow or bell + one or two more Or martes + tucker + reed + Perez Or Torres + Rutherford ++ Despite recent sweetening, I still feel a deal is a ways off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) This. Trading Rodon now would be idiotic. Rodon has proven nothing. His value would be disappointing because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:51 PM) Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 15s Sources: Danny Duffy and the Kansas City Royals have agreed on a five-year, $65 million contract extension. One less potential SP to grab now. link C'Mon Houston, time to pony up! Enjoy that deal in 2019... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:34 PM) Rodon has proven nothing. His value would be disappointing because of that. You could say the same about Bregman or Benintendi. What is the difference? Less exposure in the Majors? Fangraphs has an article that Rodon was hurt by bad catchers last season. You could see the step forward when Navarro was traded by watching games. Edited January 16, 2017 by Elgin Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) Let's clear something up: trading Rodon is not idiotic. If someone offered you significantly more value than he is worth, you'd jump on it in a second. The Diamondbacks gave up Dansby Swanson and Endar Inciarte for Shelby Miller. I'd certainly take those two for Rodon right now. Trading him for what the normal market would pay for him right now, that's a little closer to idiotic, but I wouldn't say it would be totally idiotic. I don't think so. Only because, if he continues to improve he will be worth more later. Unless you think his performance has reached it's peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:38 PM) I don't think so. Only because, if he continues to improve he will be worth more later. Unless you think his performance has reached it's peak. No team is offering up a big package for Rodon at this point. He's worth more to the sox for the next five seasons. Let him develop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) You could say the same about Bregman or Benintendi. What is the difference? Less exposure in the Majors? Fangraphs has an article that Rodon was hurt by bad catchers last season. You could see the step forward when Navarro was traded by watching games. Sure. And that is why they are a part of larger trade discussions, instead of getting star players by themselves. Rodon isn't going to clean out someone's farm system. He has been to inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 You could say the same about Bregman or Benintendi. What is the difference? Less exposure in the Majors? Fangraphs has an article that Rodon was hurt by bad catchers last season. You could see the step forward when Navarro was traded. Teams are afraid of pitchers, particularly young ones. Sox may have exploited a market inefficiency grabbing 3 of the top 5 farm arms in baseball + a 2016 1st rounder. Their targeting of those guys does not fit with conventional wisdom around the league, really the only team doing something similar is the Braves. Sox betting against the league...if it works they'll be nearly unstoppable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:42 PM) Teams are afraid of pitchers, particularly young ones. Sox may have exploited a market inefficiency grabbing 3 of the top 5 farm arms in baseball + a 2016 1st rounder. Their targeting of those guys does not fit with conventional wisdom around the league, really the only team doing something similar is the Braves. Sox betting against the league...if it works they'll be nearly unstoppable. We can thank the Chicago National League Ballclub for that. I saw it more as the Sox are trying to target hitters close to the majors or very far away because they realize they have been having a hard time developing hitting, as they clean out the system of the instructors who aren't teaching hitting properly and getting results. Also, they are grabbing pitching because they know they can develop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Rodon was a first round draft pick and is now a proven major league pitcher with potential. In fact, if Quintana is traded, Rodon might well be the Sox Ace. Rodon's potential is clear to professional scouts and GMs around the league. As such, he has plenty of trade value as a powerful, young, top of the rotation lefty starter. If Levine is right and there are several suitors for Quintana, and some teams are not willing to part with enough talent to get Q, there is no reason why they might not be interested in Rodon at a slightly lower cost in return talent. So, for the right return of prospects, including outfield or catcher prospects that can hit the ball, I would trade Rodon in a flash. No player is untradeable, at least no player that the Sox have on their roster, including Rodon. As some claim here, the market demand for starting pitchers is high and the supply is low. That argues in favor of trading pitchers instead of waiting. A boatload of prospect for Quintana and Rodon could seriously advance the rebuilding process. It could also help to develop young pitchers in our system that will get a chance to pitch in the major leagues like Fulmer. If those young pitcher struggle, that might increase the chance that the Sox tank in 2017 and get a high Draft pick in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 05:46 PM) Rodon was a first round draft pick and is now a proven major league pitcher with potential. In fact, if Quintana is traded, Rodon might well be the Sox Ace. Rodon's potential is clear to professional scouts and GMs around the league. As such, he has plenty of trade value as a powerful, young, top of the rotation lefty starter. If Levine is right and there are several suitors for Quintana, and some teams are not willing to part with enough talent to get Q, there is no reason why they might not be interested in Rodon at a slightly lower cost in return talent. So, for the right return of prospects, including outfield or catcher prospects that can hit the ball, I would trade Rodon in a flash. No player is untradeable, at least no player that the Sox have on their roster, including Rodon. As some claim here, the market demand for starting pitchers is high and the supply is low. That argues in favor of trading pitchers instead of waiting. A boatload of prospect for Quintana and Rodon could seriously advance the rebuilding process. It could also help to develop young pitchers in our system that will get a chance to pitch in the major leagues like Fulmer. If those young pitcher struggle, that might increase the chance that the Sox tank in 2017 and get a high Draft pick in 2018. Any player is available for the right deal, but why deal Rodon when we have five seasons of control left with him? Plus his trade value would be much higher with a breakout season or two. Sox should keep him and build the rotation around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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