Dam8610 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:31 AM) Rick Hahn to Blame for Q market stalling out? This is from The Athletic, I don't have a subscription so I can't read anything past the first paragraph, but looks like potential blame shifting to RH taking too long to make a deal piece (basing that on context clues). Basically said he set the bar too high with the first two trades, and other GMs have been made hesitant by that and the abundance of options on the free agent market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Basically said he set the bar too high with the first two trades, and other GMs have been made hesitant by that and the abundance of options on the free agent market. huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:54 AM) huh Lots of average-below average bats, relievers, and starters available that only cost money, and some GMs are very hesitant to give up their prospects. That's what the article says. Edited January 17, 2017 by Dam8610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Lots of average-below average bats, relievers, and starters available that only cost money, and some GMs are very hesitant to give up their prospects. The only good player left in free agency is Bats and time's running out on him. The best thing going for Q right now is the lack of other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Jonathan Mayo @JonathanMayo 23m23 minutes ago Jonathan Mayo Retweeted john delk Vacation? What's that? And haven't heard much on the Quintana trade front here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Alexander Martinez @achronos999 @JonathanMayo Is Reynaldo Lopez or Francis Martes the biggest risk on the Top 10? Jonathan Mayo @JonathanMayo 41m41 minutes ago Probably would say Martes, though Espinoza belongs in this conversation, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I cant read it either and I'm not subscribing to it to find out, but I suspect its premise is that Hahn has some delusions about Jose Quintana's value. Jose Quintana is worth what the market is willing to pay for him, and that is all there is to it. Now a little salesmanship can go a ways to bringing out a maximum return but the fact is teams will only give up so much. After more than a month of talks (that have been admittedly interrupted by the holidays) I dont think there's much work left to do and at this point teams are going to start moving on (ASTROS) from Quintana and find solutions elsewhere. I dont think its impossible that Q's value has already started to decline. [/q It doesn't say anything about Hahn being delusional about Q's value. You should probably read the article before making that leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 11:39 AM) It's not that. Solid article actually. Basically just said Hahn wrecked the market with his outstanding deals. Never blamed him. "Wrecked" the market would mean Hahn set the bar so high and demanded so much that he couldn't get any deals done. But the fact that he was successful in completing two "outstanding" deals sounds to me that he established a market, vs. wrecking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 It doesn't say anything about Hahn being delusional about Q's value. You should probably read the article before making that leap. I would if they didn't require a subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) Lots of average-below average bats, relievers, and starters available that only cost money, and some GMs are very hesitant to give up their prospects. That's what the article says. What starting pitching free agents is this article referring to? Quintana is by far the best option on the market that actually could be traded. I don't think Gray or Archer will be moved. Astros leak on Gray interest is not fooling anybody, Oakland would be foolish to sell low on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213682650/ri...-quintana-deal/ Nothing really new here, but between this article and Merkin's interview last night on WSCR, I gather that Hahn's demands have been ridiculously high and he now needs to determine what's really enough to move forward with a deal. Call it caving or whatever, but at some point you have to acknowledge that your current offers are likely close to market value and consider accepting one of them. That doesn't necessarily have to be now, but at some point the only thing that's going to get a team to budge (if they even will) is another team closing in on a deal like the Nationals with Sale. I do think with SoxFest 1 1/2 weeks away, we'll see some action very soon or else it indicates they plan on holding Q until the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:02 PM) http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213682650/ri...-quintana-deal/ Nothing really new here, but between this article and Merkin's interview last night on WSCR, I gather that Hahn's demands have been ridiculously high and he now needs to determine what's really enough to move forward with a deal. Call it caving or whatever, but at some point you have to acknowledge that your current offers are likely close to market value and consider accepting one of them. That doesn't necessarily have to be now, but at some point the only thing that's going to get a team to budge (if they even will) is another team closing in on a deal like the Nationals with Sale. I do think with SoxFest 1 1/2 weeks away, we'll see some action very soon or else it indicates they plan on holding Q until the deadline. I'm not willing to accept Frazier as a headliner http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospect...hp?reportid=311 His hit tool is not great, and grades out as average at best. Lots of swing and miss, although good bat speed. He profiles as a corner outfielder, but I'm not seeing the big time ceiling for him. I expect him to slide out of the top 25 prospects in 2017. He still is a good prospect, but a second piece to a deal, not headliner for Quintana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 It's hard to know if Hahn is over-asking for a return on Quintana when we don't know what the real offers each way were. It might be a case where the market is tapped out on teams with high prospects who are willing to move them, and you have to wait it out (until the trading deadline for example) for the market to refresh itself. I agree that I wouldn't want Frazier as a headliner, nor would I want Glasnow as a headliner. That said, if it means we just aren't going to get a Meadows or Torres as a headliner - that doesn't necessarily end discussions. Well maybe with Pittsburgh it would, but maybe not Houston or Atlanta? I think the last line in that article is well put. At a certain point, probably very soon, you need to poop or get off the pot. Leaving Quintana in lingo this long might have an adverse effect on him going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) It's hard to know if Hahn is over-asking for a return on Quintana when we don't know what the real offers each way were. It might be a case where the market is tapped out on teams with high prospects who are willing to move them, and you have to wait it out (until the trading deadline for example) for the market to refresh itself. I agree that I wouldn't want Frazier as a headliner, nor would I want Glasnow as a headliner. That said, if it means we just aren't going to get a Meadows or Torres as a headliner - that doesn't necessarily end discussions. Well maybe with Pittsburgh it would, but maybe not Houston or Atlanta? I think the last line in that article is well put. At a certain point, probably very soon, you need to poop or get off the pot. Leaving Quintana in lingo this long might have an adverse effect on him going forward. While the headliner is very important (and can be deal breaking), I am willing to look at a package as a whole if it makes sense Sox are looking for a 3 - 4 player deal of players all with high upside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:33 PM) While the headliner is very important (and can be deal breaking), I am willing to look at a package as a whole if it makes sense Sox are looking for a 3 - 4 player deal of players all with high upside Yeah, there are a few teams left who can make up for not having a Moncada level player at the top by loading up with a lot of quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm sure Hahn will come down to some extent. When it comes to selling something you always put it up for sale for more than you expect in return in anticipation of negotiating with a buyer(s). The fact that teams are still negotiating with Hahn despite knowing his very high price tells me something will eventually happen. Hahn is just patiently waiting to see which team makes the best offer that makes the most sense for the Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:53 PM) I'm sure Hahn will come down to some extent. When it comes to selling something you always put it up for sale for more than you expect in return in anticipation of negotiating with a buyer(s). The fact that teams are still negotiating with Hahn despite knowing his very high price tells me something will eventually happen. Hahn is just patiently waiting to see which team makes the best offer that makes the most sense for the Sox. A deal not getting done yet does not mean the Sox need to compromise. The Pirates and Astros would absolutely love to have Quintana, but neither wants to overpay if they do not have to. Right now the Sox are porbably looking at: Pirates offer of Glasnow + Newman ++ or Astros offer of Martes + Tucker + Paulino Neither is worth moving Quintana in my opinion, both are light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:11 PM) A deal not getting done yet does not mean the Sox need to compromise. The Pirates and Astros would absolutely love to have Quintana, but neither wants to overpay if they do not have to. Right now the Sox are porbably looking at: Pirates offer of Glasnow + Newman ++ or Astros offer of Martes + Tucker + Paulino Neither is worth moving Quintana in my opinion, both are light You completely missed the point in my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) You completely missed the point in my post. Sorry if I didn't continue on. Hahn knows that a deal is out there, but he really wants to see what can happen by waiting Remember the Sale deal took a year of negotiation with Boston to finally happen. Discussions on Quintana were never very serious until Sale got dealt. It takes time to really gauge what the market is Sox can compromise, but the other side will have to compromise as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) Sorry if I didn't continue on. Hahn knows that a deal is out there, but he really wants to see what can happen by waiting Remember the Sale deal took a year of negotiation with Boston to finally happen. Discussions on Quintana were never very serious until Sale got dealt. It takes time to really gauge what the market is Sox can compromise, but the other side will have to compromise as well OK, I think we're on the same track.Too many people think it's the buyer or the seller that sets the value of a player but that's one dimensional thinking and it's wrong. The seller has an idea of what he's looking to sell for and the buyer has an idea of how much they will spend, when the two parties come to an agreement on the price, THAT is the actual value for the player. Before negotiations begin, the players true value is not really defined and just being speculated on. If my car is said to be worth 5k, I'm not going to start the asking price at 5k. I'm going to start the asking price higher than what I look to recieve because I know that anyone looking to buy that car is going to try and lower the price in negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm going to keep saying it, but give me Martes, Tucker, Reed, plus one other piece. How much fun would this rotation be to follow in 2018? 1. Rodon 2. Giolito 3. Martes 4. Lopez 5. Fulmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The #Astros, in need for a starter, remain engaged with #WhiteSox for Jose Quintana, #Rays for Chris Archer and #Athletics for Sonny Gray. https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/821457595886141441 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:38 PM) I'm going to keep saying it, but give me Martes, Tucker, Reed, plus one other piece. How much fun would this rotation be to follow in 2018? 1. Rodon 2. Giolito 3. Martes 4. Lopez 5. Fulmer If that final piece is Franklin Perez? Deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The #Astros, in need for a starter, remain engaged with #WhiteSox for Jose Quintana, #Rays for Chris Archer and #Athletics for Sonny Gray. https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/821457595886141441 At least its something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:38 PM) I'm going to keep saying it, but give me Martes, Tucker, Reed, plus one other piece. How much fun would this rotation be to follow in 2018? 1. Rodon 2. Giolito 3. Martes 4. Lopez 5. Fulmer With Kopech nipping at Fulmer's heels. I agree that offer is at least very intriguing. I doubt its been offered though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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