Teams have upped their offers in Q derby in the last week

[Jerksticks]

Another simple way of looking at the contract. Starting pitching prices are going to keep inflating the next few years. Most teams will be priced out. Q's will stay static. Not every team can buy a championship like the cubs. Just think of how creative our front office has had to be the last 15 years. Always a piece or two short, betting on bargain veterans having bouncebacks, all due to financial restraints. Our biggest contract is still 66M and we play in Chicago. Trust me when I say there will always be plenty of teams willing to back the prospect truck up to get Q, so waiting for that truck is fine. Every team needs a 5-6 WAR LH SP in his prime at $10M, especially teams like us and the Pitates.

 

Value won't be going down at all if we wait into the season. I bet it goes up. Think about all the tight races that will be happening in May/June. Each one of those GMs AND owners knows that any team could snatch up Q at any moment. Value through the roof. "s*** what if they get Quintana they might pull away. What if we got Quintana? Call Hahn offer Bregman, I want to go for this sucker this year!"

 

I'm fine waiting until the pressure of being in races starts hitting some clubs. I predict a Mid-May to Mid-June trade and might prefer that.

[hi8is]

It was on WSCR last year, someone filling in for Lawrence Holmes interviewed him.

I guess that means there's no archived audio of it online?

[hi8is]

Another simple way of looking at the contract. Starting pitching prices are going to keep inflating the next few years. Most teams will be priced out. Q's will stay static. Not every team can buy a championship like the cubs. Just think of how creative our front office has had to be the last 15 years. Always a piece or two short, betting on bargain veterans having bouncebacks, all due to financial restraints. Our biggest contract is still 66M and we play in Chicago. Trust me when I say there will always be plenty of teams willing to back the prospect truck up to get Q, so waiting for that truck is fine. Every team needs a 5-6 WAR LH SP in his prime at $10M, especially teams like us and the Pitates.

 

Value won't be going down at all if we wait into the season. I bet it goes up. Think about all the tight races that will be happening in May/June. Each one of those GMs AND owners knows that any team could snatch up Q at any moment. Value through the roof. "s*** what if they get Quintana they might pull away. What if we got Quintana? Call Hahn offer Bregman, I want to go for this sucker this year!"

 

I'm fine waiting until the pressure of being in races starts hitting some clubs. I predict a Mid-May to Mid-June trade and might prefer that.

[reiks12]

Gammons source saying Gray to Astros won't happen.

 

Color me surprised

[Chicago White Sox]

Gammons source saying Gray to Astros won't happen.

 

Color me surprised

Never made any sense, at least not for Houston. Gray won't be dealt until the trade deadline at the earliest.

[peavy44]

Never made any sense, at least not for Houston. Gray won't be dealt until the trade deadline at the earliest.

 

Do the Astros try go after Chris Archer again?

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Do the Astros try go after Chris Archer again?

Unless they want to give up Bregman, I don't see it happening. Rumor is they turned down an offer of Martes, Tucker, Paulino, ++. Realistically, the Astros can't offer much more than that unless they include major league pieces like Bregman and/or Musgrove.

[peavy44]

Unless they want to give up Bregman, I don't see it happening. Rumor is they turned down an offer of Martes, Tucker, Paulino, ++. Realistically, the Astros can't offer much more than that unless they include major league pieces like Bregman and/or Musgrove.

 

So does he come to Rick Hahn and offer something good but Rick Hahn wants Bregman doesn't he.

 

[Balta1701]

So does he come to Rick Hahn and offer something good but Rick Hahn wants Bregman doesn't he.

For the next 3 weeks, Rick Hahn has just as little pressure to get this done as the teams out there have to make the deal. How exactly are these teams going to fall out of the market for Q? The Astros are going to find someone better? They're going to get Sonny Gray and tell themselves that solves the problem of their rotation being inconsistent?

[Chicago White Sox]

For the next 3 weeks, Rick Hahn has just as little pressure to get this done as the teams out there have to make the deal. How exactly are these teams going to fall out of the market for Q? The Astros are going to find someone better? They're going to get Sonny Gray and tell themselves that solves the problem of their rotation being inconsistent?

Not sure I understand what you're getting at here.

[ptatc]

When will the team be good again if we don't move Quintana? How much control will we have over him at that time?

If their plan works in 3 years which means they will have him for at least 2, if he doesn't sign another contract.

 

As people have stated here he is a very good pitcher. Pitchers like him are difficult to find. If they don't receive a really good offer for him, it doesn't make sense to trade him. He signed a team friendly deal and may stick around longer.

 

They shouldn't trade him for less than what he is worth to the sox as a TOR pitcher.

[peavy44]

If their plan works in 3 years which means they will have him for at least 2, if he doesn't sign another contract.

 

As people have stated here he is a very good pitcher. Pitchers like him are difficult to find. If they don't receive a really good offer for him, it doesn't make sense to trade him. He signed a team friendly deal and may stick around longer.

 

They shouldn't trade him for less than what he is worth to the sox as a TOR pitcher.

 

No way he sign another cheap deal with the white sox and to be honest white sox need start paying people or no one will wanna play here.

 

[FT35]

I love that TB is stuck on Bregman in any Archer trade. It does 2 things...1. it makes our proposed deals for Q (the better overall pitcher imo) that don't have Bregman in them look more enticing, and 2. it makes things less uncomfortable when Bregman's name is brought up in Q discussions. Houston does have other options at 3rd...Gurriel and Gonzalez, but I would think even we would see that as marginal depth at best. I think the biggest hangup to Bregman is that they are counting on him solving a long-term organizational search for a third basemen--much like the Sox had until Frazier signed last year. We're talking an issue for Houston dating back to the Morgan Ensberg--and even Ken Caminiti days!

 

Taking this logic--would it be inconceivable if Frazier was added to the mix if it enabled them to move a player like Bregman? I know Hahn is trying to maximize his return on each asset and has shown a reluctance to move multiple pieces (Robertson to Washington in the Eaton trade), but it just seems like adding Frazier in here would do exactly that by unlocking Bregman. If they were willing to do Bregman +Martes or Tucker + + for Quintana if it meant getting Frazier back as well, that's a good use of the Frazier chip and good for Houston too--especially if they were able to resign Frazier to cover even more of those "lost" Bregman years. Personally, I think Bregman should be in play without Frazier, but the Sox are actually in a position to FIX a primary stumbling block to Houston acquiring a TOR starter--the ensuing hold at 3rd.

[witesoxfan]

No way he sign another cheap deal with the white sox and to be honest white sox need start paying people or no one will wanna play here.

 

Well this is silly. The White Sox guaranteed Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, and Jose Quintana financial security for the rest of their lives, barring super extravagant spending habits, and job satisfaction has much less to do with the amount of money you make and more with how happy you are in your current position. If the White Sox breed an atmosphere in which players will be happy and comfortable, players will be happy playing for them.

 

Also, a lot of these players don't really have a choice where they play anyways, especially for the first 6 years.

[The Beast]

If Hahn was willing to speak more on his trade negotiations for Q, it would already be out there. Hahn is not going to give in to fan peer pressure, nor should he.

No, but my idea is something I definitely would have used on Williams back in the day since he's the kind of guy who allows things to get to him. I would like to see how Hahn responds to questions about the rebuild though, because we are at the point in the offseason where there's nothing going on and we patiently have to wait for spring training to start.

[Chicago White Sox]

If their plan works in 3 years which means they will have him for at least 2, if he doesn't sign another contract.

 

As people have stated here he is a very good pitcher. Pitchers like him are difficult to find. If they don't receive a really good offer for him, it doesn't make sense to trade him. He signed a team friendly deal and may stick around longer.

 

They shouldn't trade him for less than what he is worth to the sox as a TOR pitcher.

That's the problem though, he's only worth one or two years as a TOR starter to us based on our projected competive window. While I'm not suggesting they settle for a crap offer, you don't need multiple all-stars to come out ahead. If we end up with even one 3 WAR per year player that can provide that value over the course of five years when we'll actually be competive, we are definitely better off. That's why holding Quintana through the rebuild in hopes he can be part of our next competive team makes no sense.

[beautox]

Should Pirates give up prospects for Quintana?

 

You make a great point about how a trade full of top prospects would go against the Bucs' typical philosophy, which makes it seem unlikely even though it makes a ton of sense in a vacuum. Another thing to consider: These aren't just run-of-the-mill prospects they'd probably have to give up.

It's easy to think of the prospects as assets in the offseason, pieces to be moved to make a deal. But seeing most of them last week at minicamp was a reminder of how high their ceilings are. Guys like Josh Bell, Glasnow, Austin Meadows, Kevin Newman and Mitch Keller are future core players -- and aside from Keller, they're either in the big leagues or not far away. That's essentially the strongest case against a big trade like Quintana this offseason.

[Balta1701]

Not sure I understand what you're getting at here.

Rick Hahn doesn't need to be in a rush right now and can hold out for 2-3 weeks to see if someone gives up the player that is currently untouchable.

[Kyyle23]

Will anyone going to SoxFest go to a Q&A with RH and grill him? Beat him up a bit and see what he says about Quintana? The lack of rumors and disagreement over what to do with Quintana now and at the deadline is driving me crazy.

 

Im sure he will reveal everything in this scenario

[ptatc]

That's the problem though, he's only worth one or two years as a TOR starter to us based on our projected competive window. While I'm not suggesting they settle for a crap offer, you don't need multiple all-stars to come out ahead. If we end up with even one 3 WAR per year player that can provide that value over the course of five years when we'll actually be competive, we are definitely better off. That's why holding Quintana through the rebuild in hopes he can be part of our next competive team makes no sense.

I get it. This is where RH/KW need to determine the value of Q vs. the prospect package.

 

Also, it does make sense to keep Q if the deal isn't what they like. If you project them to have a shot at the WS during his contract, he would become one less "rental' they may need to trade prospects for. It may save them talent in the long run because they would need to make the deadline deal.

 

This is all predicated on what deal is currently offered. I have no issues with trading him but there is value in keeping him as well.

[peavy44]

Well this is silly. The White Sox guaranteed Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, and Jose Quintana financial security for the rest of their lives, barring super extravagant spending habits, and job satisfaction has much less to do with the amount of money you make and more with how happy you are in your current position. If the White Sox breed an atmosphere in which players will be happy and comfortable, players will be happy playing for them.

 

Also, a lot of these players don't really have a choice where they play anyways, especially for the first 6 years.

 

 

Don't you see Jose Quintana demanding $150 million from the white sox.

[southsider2k5]

There will be A and AA players that take significant steps forward in the next 6 months.

 

And there will all be a fair amount of the players we are begging for now, who take a significant step backwards.,

[witesoxfan]

Don't you see Jose Quintana demanding $150 million from the white sox.

 

No, because he is currently in the midst of a lengthy contract. I think when he gets to free agency, he'll have his agent ask for a very large sum of money.

[bmags]

Rick Hahn doesn't need to be in a rush right now and can hold out for 2-3 weeks to see if someone gives up the player that is currently untouchable.

 

I actually felt relieved by CWS reporting of the Merkin interview on SCR of the sox needing to back off the top player plus 4 other top prospects to complete a deal.

 

We all assume Meadows is the last piece. But people assumed Moncada was the last piece to be agreed upon, it was actually Devers being swapped out for Basabe/Diaz.

 

We have SO little info right now. The board is having dramatic mood swings and putting incredible narratives over very uninformative tidbits of information. But the one inference someone mentioned that we could draw is if the sox were truly that far off of everyones demands we wouldn't keep hearing that teams are talking to them daily.

 

 

[fredmanrique]

The point was that there is a wider range of players available in January than there is in June/July and that's true. Certainly there's a full spectrum of outcomes that could happen with the players in consideration now and that's worth noting. However, the underlying point that is indisputable in my opinion is the fact that the Sox have a wider pool of players to choose from than they will in July. There are players that could "potentially" help an MLB team in 2017 that are available now like Glasnow. If Glasnow sticks with Pittsburg and becomes a #3 type this year, he's out. Sox aren't getting him anymore. Same could be said with Martes, Albies and potential other headliners.

 

This isn't even considering the risk of Quintana getting hurt, underperforming or having his value flogged down with bad luck in a small sample size (high BABIP, unsustainable HR/FB%, bad defense, etc.). If you're Chris Sale or Kershaw your value won't be touched by a three months of a say, 4.2 ERA, but if you're Jose Quintana...who knows how that affects things. He's not the sexy American with a 98 MPH who's been under baseball fans' microscope for ten years. He's the minor league free agent from Columbia who you're pleasantly surprised hits 93 MPH. He takes the ball every fifth days and uses everything in his repertoire to get people out. At this point, despite his contract and track record, his value is far from fungible. He's more susceptible to a value regression than most of his value equivalents.

 

It's hard to say what the Sox should do without seeing the actual offers, but to me, his value is likely higher than it ever will be and the returns are not going to have the inclusiveness they have now until next November.