Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 So f'in sick of this narrative. Well it has to keep being repeated all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:28 AM) I'm all for depth, but the smart move is to acquire several elite prospects who have the potential to be game changers for our franchise Suitors top prospects must be on the table or a deal is not getting done (see Eaton and Sale deals for reference) That should be Plan A. But if someone is willing to offer you a package of players that could plug 3/4/5 holes with players that should be solid everyday players, it is also worth thinking about. A lack of depth in the starting line up has been the achillies heel of this team for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) Well it has to keep being repeated all the time. Yah, because clearly RH hasn't gotten an offer he wants to pull the trigger on yet. Therefore, here we are. The day he gets that offer, I assure you he'll take it. In the meantime, hold your damn horses. Trading him now for a bunch of B and C level prospects does this organization ZERO good, outside of perhaps making a top 3 pick more likely, which to me, should be significantly below hitting a home run on the Quintana trade on the priority scale. Edited January 20, 2017 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Yes. If you aren't acquiring game changers, what's the purpose of trading him? I doubt the offers currently on the table lack game changers. And if Hahn cannot get a good deal in this market he shouldn't have his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:25 AM) I think fans do need mentally prepare for Quintana to be on our roster opening day The stove seems to have considerably cooled as of late, and the likelihood he gets dealt before spring training is getting slimmer and slimmer, which is ok. I've been saying this since the Eaton trade. Teams aren't ready to give up another blockbuster deal. Honestly, it's difficult to imagine 3 blockbuster deals in one off season. There just aren't that many teams willing to do this type of deal at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Yah, because clearly RH hasn't gotten an offer he wants to pull the trigger on yet. Therefore, here we are. The day he gets that offer, I assure you he'll take it. In the meantime, hold your damn horses. Trading him now for a bunch of B and C level prospects does this organization ZERO good, outside of perhaps making a top 3 pick more likely, which to me, should be significantly below hitting a home run on the Quintana trade on the priority scale. My entire premise is his expectations are ridiculous and need to be lowered. Torres + Frazer + Rutherford is not happening, Musgrove + two top 50 prospects isn't happening, Bregman isn't happenng, Swanson isn't happening, Meadows + Bell isn't happening. It wont happen now, it wont happen in July, it wont happen unless Jose Quintana becomes Clayton Kershaw. Doesn't mean he cant still get a good deal. Right now the Sox have a bad major league roster and a good-not-great farm that probably isn't good enough to elevate the major league team to success. They are doing a soft reboot, not an all out rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:47 AM) My entire premise is his expectations are ridiculous and need to be lowered. Torres + Frazer + Rutherford is not happening, Musgrove + two top 50 prospects isn't happening, Bregman isn't happenng, Swanson isn't happening, Meadows + Bell isn't happening. It wont happen now, it wont happen in July, it wont happen unless Jose Quintana becomes Clayton Kershaw. Doesn't mean he cant still get a good deal. Right now the Sox have a bad major league roster and a good-not-great farm that probably isn't good enough to elevate the major league team to success. They are doing a soft reboot, not an all out rebuild. Well, if the Sox still have just a "good not great farm" that means only a few clubs in the league have great farms. Maybe thats your opinion. Look man, this has been discussed ad nauseam. Clearly you don't care to process the fact that perhaps the teams that would potentially be in the market for Quintana at his price tag (I think we both can agree this is a limited group) either doesn't have the top end talent that the Sox seek, or are unwilling to move it at this juncture. This is something that can change. Perhaps not this offseason, but sometime in the future. New top end bats will emerge. Right now, no one seems willing to move a top tier position player prospect. Kyle Friggin' Tucker is the best bat that seems to be available for Q, and even on him there have been mentions that the Astros don't want to move him. So you're left with a bunch of mid-tier guys that aren't acceptable centerpieces. I PROMISE YOU THAT THIS WILL CHANGE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS. The Sox have time, and they clearly are content using it. Plus, if you think a Musgrove, Martes and Tucker package is something the Sox should jump all over, we're definitely never going to agree. It's an OK package, not one that I would be very excited about if Q was the first of the three dominoes moved, but now that we have Giolito, Lopez, Kopech and Dunning in the mix in addition to the arms that were already in the Sox farm, it'd be disappointing because it's pretty obvious we need young bats. Yes - take best package and figure it out later - but clearly the focus should be on position players. Edited January 20, 2017 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 07:47 AM) My entire premise is his expectations are ridiculous and need to be lowered. Torres + Frazer + Rutherford is not happening, Musgrove + two top 50 prospects isn't happening, Bregman isn't happenng, Swanson isn't happening, Meadows + Bell isn't happening. It wont happen now, it wont happen in July, it wont happen unless Jose Quintana becomes Clayton Kershaw. Doesn't mean he cant still get a good deal. Right now the Sox have a bad major league roster and a good-not-great farm that probably isn't good enough to elevate the major league team to success. They are doing a soft reboot, not an all out rebuild. Then you don't f***ing trade him now. The folks in this camp have not come close to offering any kind of compelling argument that Jose's value will drop if we wait 6-12months. You don't rush this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 What's wrong with Kyle Tucker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:59 AM) What's wrong with Kyle Tucker? Nothing is wrong with him, he is a nice piece and definitely the guy the Sox would need to have from the Astros system because Bregman isn't moving. That said, if he is the only position player prospect you receive in a Q trade, that'd be incredibly disappointing. Edited January 20, 2017 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I know we have gone to the complete and other end of the pendulum, but don't forget that Quintana is signed for the next four years. If you are really looking at a 2019 timeline for being competitive, Q is under contract til 2020. He could still be on your next playoff team if you really believe that is your window. If you don't get an offer that looks to significantly out perform what Q will be able to bring you by the next time you think you will be a playoff team, you sit on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:12 AM) I know we have gone to the complete and other end of the pendulum, but don't forget that Quintana is signed for the next four years. If you are really looking at a 2019 timeline for being competitive, Q is under contract til 2020. He could still be on your next playoff team if you really believe that is your window. If you don't get an offer that looks to significantly out perform what Q will be able to bring you by the next time you think you will be a playoff team, you sit on him. But he is going to get hurt and/or start to suck this year. They have to get rid of him right now for whatever they can get. Teams will give up a lot for a guy who is just about to get hurt or start to suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:59 AM) What's wrong with Kyle Tucker? Hes a decent second or third piece, but his distance from the majors affects his value. There are definitely the pieces in Houstons system to make a deal, but they are going to have to give up a lot of quantity to make a deal if they are trying to use him as the headliner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I know we have gone to the complete and other end of the pendulum, but don't forget that Quintana is signed for the next four years. If you are really looking at a 2019 timeline for being competitive, Q is under contract til 2020. He could still be on your next playoff team if you really believe that is your window. If you don't get an offer that looks to significantly out perform what Q will be able to bring you by the next time you think you will be a playoff team, you sit on him. They will need 3 outfielders, 3rd baseman, 1st baseman, contingency plan for Collins at C and middle relief. A closer might be needed too we'll see with Burdi. That's just assuming Anderson and Moncada work out and the arms the Sox have already stockpiled fill out the rotation with little issue. It'll put the Sox right back where they were a couple months ago with a top heavy roster that lacks an adequate supporting cast. I thought the idea was to NOT have any more Jimmy Rollins' anymore? I guess that's changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Nothing is wrong with him, he is a nice piece and definitely the guy the Sox would need to have from the Astros system because Bregman isn't moving. That said, if he is the only position player prospect you receive in a Q trade, that'd be incredibly disappointing. Why? Kyle Tucker's trajectory right now is the moon. Low K's, high BB, big frame that can easily fill out for big power, athletic corner OF...what dont you like? The risk? The fact that he's not high enough ranked on lists? And why would he be the only position player? You think the Astros are like "OK you only get ONE position player prospect that's IT" I dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:22 AM) They will need 3 outfielders, 3rd baseman, 1st baseman, contingency plan for Collins at C and middle relief. A closer might be needed too we'll see with Burdi. That's just assuming Anderson and Moncada work out and the arms the Sox have already stockpiled fill out the rotation with little issue. It'll put the Sox right back where they were a couple months ago with a top heavy roster that lacks an adequate supporting cast. I thought the idea was to NOT have any more Jimmy Rollins' anymore? I guess that's changed. But we have all of these pitchers we'll be able trade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 But we have all of these pitchers we'll be able trade! If you want to compete in 2019 they better be on the Sox and pitching well. Especially to cover and offense that will be pretty anemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 We've had the same conversations so many times already that I think we've all become delusional. A trade has to happen soon or I fear for the sanity of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Collect the best players you can. If a team offers you three 60 FV pitchers versus three 55 FV hitters, you don't take the hitters because you need them. The Sox are years from competing right now anyway, so their entire focus should be strictly asset collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Collect the best players you can. If a team offers you three 60 FV pitchers versus three 55 FV hitters, you don't take the hitters because you need them. The Sox are years from competing right now anyway, so their entire focus should be strictly asset collection. I agree with this. All things being equal I'd like position players but getting the best posible talent is the #1 priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 "Jose Quintana traded for Kyle Tucker and some other prospects" sounds like the worst headline I could ever read. What a laughing Stock Hahn would be to the other GMs. Absolute laughing stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:35 AM) "Jose Quintana traded for Kyle Tucker and some other prospects" sounds like the worst headline I could ever read. What a laughing Stock Hahn would be to the other GMs. Absolute laughing stock. If the "other prospects" are A.J. Reed, Francis Martes, Derek Fisher, and Ramon Laureano, how does that make Hahn a laughing stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 If the "other prospects" are A.J. Reed, Francis Martes, Derek Fisher, and Ramon Laureano, how does that make Hahn a laughing stock? It wouldn't, but people are convinced that if the Sox dont get Mike Trout for Jose Quintana its a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:25 AM) Why? Kyle Tucker's trajectory right now is the moon. Low K's, high BB, big frame that can easily fill out for big power, athletic corner OF...what dont you like? The risk? The fact that he's not high enough ranked on lists? And why would he be the only position player? You think the Astros are like "OK you only get ONE position player prospect that's IT" I dont think so. Because you just said that Musgrove + 2 top 50 prospects isn't happening. That trade is Tucker + Musgrove + Martes, which is not what the Sox need right now. And if you think THAT is too much - what in the world are you expecting? Outside of Bregman (not moving), Tucker, and Reed, the Astros position player prospects are pretty uninspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:25 AM) Why? Kyle Tucker's trajectory right now is the moon. Low K's, high BB, big frame that can easily fill out for big power, athletic corner OF...what dont you like? The risk? The fact that he's not high enough ranked on lists? And why would he be the only position player? You think the Astros are like "OK you only get ONE position player prospect that's IT" I dont think so. The dude has 0 AB's above A ball, the list of players that put up great number in A ball and below and never made it as an everyday player in the majors. Lets not get too carried away by a guy is on the same path as his brother who is looking a lot like a AAAA player. Sure he isn't his brother, he could end up being much better or could end up on the same path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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