southsider2k5 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 12:27 AM) I've always been a huge fan of Q ( as I am with most young Sox players (Avi coughcough). I remember many here using the term smoke and mirrors with Q's surprising performance in his 1st 2 years with the Sox. Even now with his name all over trade rumors and many more learning how good he has been its hard to believe he is still under rated but he is. A recent example is when MLBN lists it's top 10 players at all positions. Usually they have their unbiased "Shredder" then a group of panelists so they end up with multiple opinions of a top 10 list. Even though the list is called Top 10 Right Now the panelists use varying ways for who to put on their lists. Some use the players total body of work some use only the last year, some the last few years, yet I can never recall ever seeing Q on any ones list in the years they have been doing Top 10. This year John Smoltz not only listed his Top 10 but even listed his Top 20 since their are so many starting pitchers as compared to starting players at other positions. Q wasn't even in his top 20. Yet when you read what was in the article you listed ,"Since the start of 2013, Quintana is one of only seven pitchers in baseball to make 120 starts, toss 800 innings and post an ERA+ of 115 or better. The other six: Max Scherzer, Corey Kluber, Jon Lester, Madison Bumgarner, David Price and Cole Hamels. We're talking about one of the best and most consistent starters in baseball for the last four years" it should blow you away he is listed among those pitchers. But we still even have our fans saying he might not be in the Top 20 pitchers also. We have national writers saying he's a number 3 starter. Hahn hasn't even been able to snag a couple decent prospects for him yet. I don't know what these other teams are looking for but it should be a pitcher exactly like Q. Still youngish, consistently good, injury free, amazing contract (just look at the contracts most of those other 6 guys are like !) and most likely not to flop. He is a pitchers pitcher and I hope if he is moved that he kicks ass because he is a pros pro and will do any franchise proud. I swear it is just because he can't dial back and hit 95. Guys like him usually take to get recognized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) I swear it is just because he can't dial back and hit 95. Guys like him usually take to get recognized. That's part of it. The other is his lack of strikeouts. He isn't a "dominant strikeout" guy. He has to pitch to contact which does make GM's about trading a TOR package for him and makes the "list" experts devalue him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 6, 2017 -> 07:41 PM) MLBpipeline's top 100 is already updated. QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Feb 6, 2017 -> 07:55 PM) Astros have 4 guys in the MLB Top 100 Pipeline rankings: 20. Martes 35. Tucker 54. Paulino 84. Whitley After looking at that, I don't think the Sox can expect to get Musgrove + 2 top prospects, but Martes + Tucker would be a good starting point. Thanks guys. Turns out I've been looking at the 2016 top 30 for each team. Ouch, what happened to Fisher? Agree that Martes + Tucker should be the starting point. The value of Martes/Tucker is a bit less than Giolito/Lopez from the Eaton deal so IMHO it would take two more players to round out the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 11:08 AM) That's part of it. The other is his lack of strikeouts. He isn't a "dominant strikeout" guy. He has to pitch to contact which does make GM's about trading a TOR package for him and makes the "list" experts devalue him. Yeah, I think the lack of K's hurts his perceived value in trade negotiations but is also an excuse to try and cut the cost down. My counter-point to that are the facts that Q pitches half of his games in a hitter friendly band box and yet still puts up the numbers of #1 or #2 pitcher while pitching 200 innings per year. Q would be the best overall pitcher on the Astros staff and Luhnow knows it. Luhnow just needs a bit more time to give up his prospect coddling ways. Learning to let go is never easy at first,lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 01:39 PM) Yeah, I think the lack of K's hurts his perceived value in trade negotiations but is also an excuse to try and cut the cost down. My counter-point to that are the facts that Q pitches half of his games in a hitter friendly band box and yet still puts up the numbers of #1 or #2 pitcher while pitching 200 innings per year. Q would be the best overall pitcher on the Astros staff and Luhnow knows it. Luhnow just needs a bit more time to give up his prospect coddling ways. Learning to let go is never easy at first,lol. https://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2017/...a_to_phill.html A Quintana to the Phillies article?!? When will this all end??? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) https://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2017/...a_to_phill.html A Quintana to the Phillies article?!? When will this all end??? haha Don't see it happening now. Maybe if they see progress in their youngsters this year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) Don't see it happening now. Maybe if they see progress in their youngsters this year though. The Phillies have a solid farm system, but I can't see them coming up with a package for Quintana that does not seriously damage their rebuilding efforts It would take Crawford + Moniak to headline, plus considerably more to round out the package. Doesn't make much sense for Philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Dear god, please let him get traded soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) https://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2017/...a_to_phill.html A Quintana to the Phillies article?!? When will this all end??? haha That is speculation, not news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 01:39 PM) Yeah, I think the lack of K's hurts his perceived value in trade negotiations but is also an excuse to try and cut the cost down. My counter-point to that are the facts that Q pitches half of his games in a hitter friendly band box and yet still puts up the numbers of #1 or #2 pitcher while pitching 200 innings per year. Q would be the best overall pitcher on the Astros staff and Luhnow knows it. Luhnow just needs a bit more time to give up his prospect coddling ways. Learning to let go is never easy at first,lol. I agree. This is the rationale, I think, that others use for not putting him in that class of pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 09:09 PM) Dear god, please let him get traded soon... But come on, it's fun the conspiracy stays alive about the Drake crew being the only ones dealt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 04:09 PM) Dear god, please let him get traded soon... Soon = 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) That is speculation, not news. Quintana will remain on the Sox until we get an offer in the realm of the Sale/Eaton deals...likely around the deadline Using a crude prospect grade matchup of potential value: Sale netted us: Moncada ("A" grade prospect) + Kopech ("A-/B+ grade prospect) + Basabe ("B-" grade prospect) + Diaz ("C+" grade prospect) Eaton netted us: Giolito ("A-/B+" grade prospect) + Lopez ("B+" grade prospect) + Dunning ("B" grade prospect) Quintana should not be moved unless we can receive a very similar package to these deals As good as Martes (B+) and Tucker (B+) are, they alone are still light in terms of what we need to be getting back. Perez (B+/B) and Reed (B-/C+) would have to be included (or similar players) to balance out a deal That is the impasse that we are at right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:31 PM) Soon = 2017. They better not blow this. I'm thinking the Astros and Sox need each other right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) They better not blow this. I'm thinking the Astros and Sox need each other right now. There are about 25 teams in baseball who could use Q right now. There are teams out there who make a ton of sense, Houston is just one of them. Honestly farm system or not, the Yankees aren't catching the Red Sox anytime soon without some outside blood being poured into their franchise. Pittsburgh needs a big move worse than any franchise in baseball right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) They better not blow this. I'm thinking the Astros and Sox need each other right now. The Astros could pretty easily part with Martes + Tucker + Perez + Reed and still have solid farm depth They still would have Paulino, Whitley, Gustave as pitching depth. As well as Gurriel, Laureano, Fisher and Hernandez as position player depth. Quintana gives them 4 cheap seasons of quality production, making Martes expendable. Whitley and Paulino should be ready in a couple seasons to help. Tucker is still a few seasons away and is expendable for a piece like Quintana. They have prospect depth at the OF position with Laureano/Fisher/Hernandez and Cameron in the system. Perez is several years away from the majors and is a high upside lottery ticket. He could shoot up prospect lists, or fizzle out in the minors. Reed is completely blocked from the majors and is expendable. High Risk/High Reward final piece to a trade. Houston may not like the price, but this allows them to keep Musgrove, as well as the entire mlb roster intact. Deal makes too much sense not to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:47 PM) There are about 25 teams in baseball who could use Q right now. There are teams out there who make a ton of sense, Houston is just one of them. Honestly farm system or not, the Yankees aren't catching the Red Sox anytime soon without some outside blood being poured into their franchise. Pittsburgh needs a big move worse than any franchise in baseball right now. Just not very many who are willing to empty the farm system for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 04:06 PM) Just not very many who are willing to empty the farm system for him. Nor have the ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I will be beta testing for OOTP 18 so I will throw down some ratings from our farm + trade scenarios for Q during some sims. Will post them here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 QUOTE (reiks12 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 04:08 PM) I will be beta testing for OOTP 18 so I will throw down some ratings from our farm + trade scenarios for Q during some sims. Will post them here! I am pre-ordering it tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I'm still hoping the Yankees enter the picture for Q again. A package led by Frazier and Rutherford would be pretty exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 07:46 PM) I'm still hoping the Yankees enter the picture for Q again. A package led by Frazier and Rutherford would be pretty exciting. It really would. Frazier seems like a really marketable player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 07:46 PM) I'm still hoping the Yankees enter the picture for Q again. A package led by Frazier and Rutherford would be pretty exciting. Could not agree more. I'm holding out hope for Cashman to pull the trigger with Hahn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Very doubtful Yankees were ever that serious in Q. Not at the price of either Torres or Frazier anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 08:46 PM) Very doubtful Yankees were ever that serious in Q. Not at the price of either Torres or Frazier anyway. They should be. Their rotation is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts