Teams have upped their offers in Q derby in the last week

[Bob Sacamano]

The #Astros, in need for a starter, remain engaged with #WhiteSox for Jose Quintana, #Rays for Chris Archer and #Athletics for Sonny Gray.

https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/821457595886141441

 

Yaaaaaaaaaaawn.

 

Edit: It's literally the same report every few days lol "Team X (Pirates, Astros, or Yankees) still talking to Sox about Quintana."

Edited January 17, 2017 by soxfan2014

[flavum]

Yaaaaaaaaaaawn.

 

Pretty much. We get it. Call me when the deal is done.

[Chicago White Sox]

With Kopech nipping at Fulmer's heels. I agree that offer is at least very intriguing. I doubt its been offered though.

Rumor is the Astros offered Martes, Tucker, Paulino, & two other pieces for Archer. Paulino is probably more valuable than Reed at the moment, so I think the first three pieces are very doable. It's the fourth piece that could make or break it for Houston.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[Dick Allen]

With the HOF announcement tomorrow, I suppose if nothing happens today, we have to wait until at least Thursday for anything.

 

So the Q to Houston, Q to Pittsburgh, Q to the Yankees talk can take a day off.

[PolishPrince34]

The more footage I watch of Martes the more he screams out reliever to me. Concerns is his delivery, being able to hold is velocity in the latter innings, and body(lack of conditioning).

[BlackSox13]

I'm going to keep saying it, but give me Martes, Tucker, Reed, plus one other piece.

 

How much fun would this rotation be to follow in 2018?

 

1. Rodon

2. Giolito

3. Martes

4. Lopez

5. Fulmer

Add Stubbs and I think that deal is pretty tempting for both sides. Sox get good depth from four players that cover every level from A+ to the MLB.

 

Theres alot of wicked talent in that rotation. If all goes well, by then Kopech should be in AAA and Hansen in AA.

[BlackSox13]

The more footage I watch of Martes the more he screams out reliever to me. Concerns is his delivery, being able to hold is velocity in the latter innings, and body(lack of conditioning).

I wouldn't be too concerned about it since Giolito, Fulmer, Lopez and Kopech all come with some concerns as well. Many scouts thought Rodon would end up a reliever due to his mechanics and lack of control but so far he's proven all the naysayers wrong with how quickly he's improved in such a short time.

 

I see it this way when it comes to trading for pitching. Given the Sox history of success with young pitching, if they were to trade for Martes then I like his chances even more sticking as a starting pitcher. I do trust the Sox eye for evaluating young pitching talent.

[steveno89]

Add Stubbs and I think that deal is pretty tempting for both sides. Sox get good depth from four players that cover every level from A+ to the MLB.

 

Theres alot of wicked talent in that rotation. If all goes well, by then Kopech should be in AAA and Hansen in AA.

 

Bregman obviously is not going anywhere

 

Reed is blocked and is unlikely to crack the 25 man roster. I could see Houston being open to moving him, although they do not like the idea of selling low on him

 

Baseball America re ranks the Houston system like this for 2017

 

1) Martes

2) Tucker

3) Paulino

4) Perez

5) Reed

6) Whitley

7) Hernandez

8) Gurriel

9) Fisher

10) Stubbs

 

I'd imagine Laureano is shortly following that

 

 

[pablo]

Bregman obviously is not going anywhere

 

Reed is blocked and is unlikely to crack the 25 man roster. I could see Houston being open to moving him, although they do not like the idea of selling low on him

 

Baseball America re ranks the Houston system like this for 2017

 

1) Martes

2) Tucker

3) Paulino

4) Perez

5) Reed

6) Whitley

7) Hernandez

8) Gurriel

9) Fisher

10) Stubbs

 

I'd imagine Laureano is shortly following that

 

I know people are hoping for Reed in a deal with the Astros. And as you mentioned, he might be expendable. But another guy who had a "down" year for them is Derek Fisher. He hit .245 last year in AA with an alarming 28% K rate, but he put up a .376 OBP aided by a 16% BB rate. Throw in a month of games at AAA last year where he really raked and its not far fetched for him to put up a 260/350/450 line in the majors. Could be a really good time to buy low on an OF prospect who was a top 80 guy last year.

 

Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and another SP prospect is a decent haul IMO. People underrate Tucker around here since he's only 19, but he could crack top 20-30 lists this year.

 

[BlackSox13]

Awe hell, let's just skip Martes and make the package Tucker, Reed, Fisher and Stubbs. Doubt Houston would do that but I would.

[ChiSox59]

Awe hell, let's just skip Martes and make the package Tucker, Reed, Fisher and Stubbs. Doubt Houston would do that but I would.

 

Man, seems like that'd be a nice deal for HOU.

[The Beast]

Pretty much. We get it. Call me when the deal is done.

Yeah, call me when a deal is done too. It seems like Merkin and Levine are picking angles that nobody has reported and nothing more than that. WSCR reported the same exact s*** today and didn't respond to my text asking for them to elaborate further. I get that it's a Cubs station and that their programming is all set for the day, but we can't just be left hanging with more posturing and more bulls***. Either trade Quintana or say we haven't gotten our demands and be done with it.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, call me when a deal is done too. It seems like Merkin and Levine are picking angles that nobody has reported and nothing more than that. WSCR reported the same exact s*** today and didn't respond to my text asking for them to elaborate further. I get that it's a Cubs station and that their programming is all set for the day, but we can't just be left hanging with more posturing and more bulls***. Either trade Quintana or say we haven't gotten our demands and be done with it.

 

Eh, you can't be that black and white about it either. Hahn has alluded to the fact that this is not a 1 year or 1 offseason rebuild. There are risks involved in hanging on to him, but those risks are true of every player that you keep or acquire. Keep an open window for negotiation and leave it open, but if you don't get the correct offer, you don't have to deal him.

 

I could easily see a situation where, come June or July, a few of the teams mentioned in this group are hanging around and Quintana's services would be the difference between them making the postseason (or winning their division) and falling short, and at that point, the reward may outweigh the risk involved. The Astros pretty much fit that perfectly. Yeah, their rotation could easily use improvement, but they have enough high upside arms who can contribute at the MLB level that they may feel it best to try those guys out in the rotation to try and fill that hole. If those young guys falter, they are still in a position to make a big offer for Quintana.

 

This situation will work itself out, just have to hope it works itself out in the White Sox favor.

[BlackSox13]

Man, seems like that'd be a nice deal for HOU.

I wouldn't complain about recieving an MLB ready 1B masher, a AAA OF with speed/power/OBP, a AA Catcher with defense/arm/hit tool and OBP, a 4 tool talent in Tucker. Would be a really nice boost to a system deprived of quality hitters.

Edited January 18, 2017 by BlackSox13

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Awe hell, let's just skip Martes and make the package Tucker, Reed, Fisher and Stubbs. Doubt Houston would do that but I would.

I'd do this if Laureano was included. 5 high upside hitters for Q? I'll take that all day.

[BlackSox13]

I'd do this if Laureano was included. 5 high upside hitters for Q? I'll take that all day.

Laureano or Martin would work for me. I would prefer Laureano but I like Martin's LHB too. Now if only we could get Luhnow to see things our way.

[Jerksticks]

Sounds like a deep package you guys are drooling over. What are the odds that package satisfies us fans for the long haul. Who would you bet to be the Allstar that comes closest to mathing Q-level WAR?

[Bob Sacamano]

Sounds like a deep package you guys are drooling over. What are the odds that package satisfies us fans for the long haul. Who would you bet to be the Allstar that comes closest to mathing Q-level WAR?

 

High possibility none of them do but this club is in a position to take that risk.

[heirdog]

We got spoiled w 2 great hauls in 2 days and we've grown impatient. I get it. But I'm fully on board with Hahn's thinking that we need our asking price met or we keep Q. We don't have any imposed deadline...much less so than the contending teams that need the piece to give themselves a legitimate shot. It's clear that teams are still interested despite the asking price so it's clearly not egregiously out of the ball park so let this play out and eventually, someone will send us a package of prospects we deem as appropriate to Q's high value.

 

Our arbitrary SoxFest and Spring Training deadlines are not unique to just us. Interested teams would love to lock down a trade and unveil Q at their fan convention or before the season too so as we get closer, you'll see more action or even us pulling Q off the market to revisit at the deadline. If the latter happens, someone might still just give in and make the deal. If not, the below asking price offers today should be available at the deadline too.

Edited January 18, 2017 by heirdog

[BlackSox13]

High possibility none of them do but this club is in a position to take that risk.

Agreed. I think a better way to look at it is what will do more for the long haul on a rebuilding Sox team, 4-5 hitting prospects or 4 more years of Q? I'll take the prospects and the risks that come with them thank you.

 

We all know the Sox need help at 2B,3B, C, DH and all three outfielders positions. Acquiring Reed 1B/DH, Fisher OF, Tucker OF, Stubbs C adds more quality hitting prospects to an organization that really needs them.

[Special K]

Q has been as consistently good as any pitcher in the league the last few years. Zero reasons to take a less package for him, especially whatever garbage package of sub-standard prospects the Astros want to throw at us. Q is an all star TOR with probably the best contract in baseball. We need an A headliner positional prospect, not just a bunch of b level prospects.

 

Hold onto him if the package isn't there. He will do what he does and some team at the deadline who is desperate for an arm will give in.

 

As an aside, is it just me or do the astros prospects (sans Bergman) excite anyone else least of all. They have no exciting positional prospects.

 

Maybe the Rockies will be in contention and their fan base will put pressure on them to contend and they will give in.

 

There are a ton of suitors, no need to make a deal because of impatience.

[JRL]

High possibility none of them do but this club is in a position to take that risk.

 

It doesn't seem to make sense that the Sox are in a particular position to take the risk of trading a hugely valuable asset for less projectable high-upside players that also have a good chance of not panning out altogether. If anything, the fact that the Sox are in full rebuild mode for at least next 2-3 years, and selling off their valuable major assets makes them less well-positioned to take such a risk. A team with a plethora of young players who are eminently projectable would be the one better positioned to take a risk. You know you have the core of a succesful team going forward anyway, and if a high-upside guy pans out, it's all gravy. For the Sox who are trying to rebuil, when they don't really yet have a ton of young players further toward the "sure thing" end of the projectability continuum, you really want to make sure you acquire critical number of players you can count on to form the core of a succesful team down the road when you're ready to contend, and you certainly don't want to trade hugely valuable major league assets for packages with stronger chances of amounting to absolutely nothing, even if they have higher upside. This is likely why the rumors were that the Sox were trying really hard to get major league ready guys/guys who even have some level of major league experience (Bregman, Benintendi, Turner, Swanson, Dahl etc...) in spite of the fact that those guys would be lingering in the majors for 2-3 years with their service time clocks running while the Sox have zero chance of contending. Yes, the ship on getting a guy as far along on the projectability continuum as one of the aforementioned players has long ago sailed, but it's really not an all or nothing strategy. The reasoning still holds, even if the Bregmans and Swansons of the world are not happening that you want to make sure you add pieces that they can have a greater degree of confidence will be able to contribute at a major league level, even if their top-end upside may not be as quite as high as a toolsy A-ball outfielder from Houston.

[ChiSox59]

We got spoiled w 2 great hauls in 2 days and we've grown impatient. I get it. But I'm fully on board with Hahn's thinking that we need our asking price met or we keep Q. We don't have any imposed deadline...much less so than the contending teams that need the piece to give themselves a legitimate shot. It's clear that teams are still interested despite the asking price so it's clearly not egregiously out of the ball park so let this play out and eventually, someone will send us a package of prospects we deem as appropriate to Q's high value.

 

Our arbitrary SoxFest and Spring Training deadlines are not unique to just us. Interested teams would love to lock down a trade and unveil Q at their fan convention or before the season too so as we get closer, you'll see more action or even us pulling Q off the market to revisit at the deadline. If the latter happens, someone might still just give in and make the deal. If not, the below asking price offers today should be available at the deadline too.

 

+100. Great post.

 

[JRL]

Agreed. I think a better way to look at it is what will do more for the long haul on a rebuilding Sox team, 4-5 hitting prospects or 4 more years of Q? I'll take the prospects and the risks that come with them thank you.

 

We all know the Sox need help at 2B,3B, C, DH and all three outfielders positions. Acquiring Reed 1B/DH, Fisher OF, Tucker OF, Stubbs C adds more quality hitting prospects to an organization that really needs them.

 

This is a silly "all or nothing" way of looking at it. If the only choices are either a) keeping Quintana for 4 more years or b) 4-5 wide range of outcome (high high upside/low low downside) prospects, sure, it would probably make more sense to jettison Quintana for those guys. Of course, (a) is not really an option at all. I think 99.9% of Sox fans and interested baseball observers agree that Quintana will not finish out the entirety of his current contract with the Sox. It's just a matter of when he is traded, and the type of package he is traded for. That's really the question. This hypothetical Astros package vs other potential packages for Quintana. Of course that's hard to do, since it's pretty much entirely speculation as to what is currently on the table for Quintana, be it this conjured 4-5 wide range of outcome (high high upside/low low downside) prospect package from Houston or any alternatives.

[JRL]

Q has been as consistently good as any pitcher in the league the last few years. Zero reasons to take a less package for him, especially whatever garbage package of sub-standard prospects the Astros want to throw at us. Q is an all star TOR with probably the best contract in baseball. We need an A headliner positional prospect, not just a bunch of b level prospects.

 

Hold onto him if the package isn't there. He will do what he does and some team at the deadline who is desperate for an arm will give in.

 

As an aside, is it just me or do the astros prospects (sans Bergman) excite anyone else least of all. They have no exciting positional prospects.

 

Maybe the Rockies will be in contention and their fan base will put pressure on them to contend and they will give in.

 

There are a ton of suitors, no need to make a deal because of impatience.

 

I tend to agree. This is certainly a very real possibility. It's a possibility most people have ignored, by just repeating the refrain that "his value will never be higher", so we must trade Quintana right now. I've spelled out a ton of reasons at length why his value could very realistically increase, and even more likely that it certainly won't decrease, if Sox hold on to him. There is no deadline to trade him or anyone else. The Sox should make the move when they think the return is likely to be at it's optimal point period.

 

One thing none of the "Code-Red, trade Quintana in the next 10 seconds!" camp seems to have thought about is that if it is absolutely undeniable that once the season begins Quintana's value cannot possibly ever get any higher than it is at this very second, because of an imagined glut of impending FA pitchers available at the deadline this year, and is most likely to decrease, how is it possible that his value will increase over the course of the current offseason, from now until the start of the season? Why would it be that Quintana could net a better return in a week than he did a week ago? You can phrase it differently, as there being more available pitchers at the deadline or whatever, but the bottom line is that the sentiment that we have to trade Quintana now, lies in the assumption that as time goes on, the only thing that can change re Quintana, is that potential suitors will have moved on to other options (e.g. pending FAs available at the deadline). It may not be quite the furious swap market that it will be at the deadline, but still, over the course of the offseason the same should hold true, if you believe that. That is, the only thing that can happen re Quintana's value as the offseason moves from today to tomorrow to next week, is that teams could pursue other options and the Sox are left holding Quintana and trading him for even less than they turned down a week ago. I'm not saying Quintana's value certainly has increased over the course of the offseason and/or that it will continue to increase, but if the Sox didn't think was the strongest possibility they obviously would have dealt him a week ago. Obviously, they could end up having made the wrong decision. That's a possibility. But, even if we think they are a bad front office, they wouldn't hold him as long as they have if it were so in your face obvious as everyone likes to make it seem that every day he's held his value can only go down and will not possibly go up. Obviously, there are very real reasons why the Sox have decided that his value was likely to increase even as they have held on to him or they wouldn't have done so. Again, they may end up being wrong, but to paint it as so obvious a decision in disregard of that fact, is a bit ignorant.