Teams have upped their offers in Q derby in the last week

[steveno89]

Plus the Rays already dumped a pitcher. They don't appear to be going into full rebuild mode. It's Q or bust for these guys. At the deadline if he isn't traded yet, chances are he is the best option. Next winter, Arrieta is a free agent, maybe Tanaka and a 33 year old Cueto. Given Q's contract, do you want to give up prospects or an extra $100 million? He still is looking good.

 

Getting Q for 4 years offsets a good portion of the 6 years of control for a top prospect. The White Sox should be asking for the moon because eventually some team will pay it.

 

Agreed

 

Many will say teams would rather give up only money to acquire a player, but that is not always the case. Making a +$100 million multi-year deal on a player over the age of 30 is risky in its own right. Quintana's deal allows you to potentially sign a big time free agent as well

[Bob Sacamano]

I think all that it is is an insight into what a possible Miguel Gonzalez trade looked like.

 

Straily has the 4 years of control though.

[Bob Sacamano]

Very true

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687747...culation/page/5

 

This is from bleacher report today and suggests a Pirates offer of: Meadows + Glasnow + Diaz might work for both sides

 

It suggests the White Sox will ask for Meadows + Glasnow + Keller, but the Pirates would be unwilling to part with that much. They could offer the lower tier Diaz instead to round out the package and fill in a platoon catcher option for the Sox.

 

I'd love a Meadows + Glasnow + Newman deal

 

Maybe it'll be like when they dealt with the Red Sox. White Sox wanted Moncada, Kopech and Devers but instead of Devers, Hahn agreed on Basabe and Diaz instead. Maybe Sox want (just spit balling here) Meadows, Glasnow/Keller (depending on who they believe is better) and Bell and they'll have to agree on 2 lesser pieces instead of the third piece.

[bmags]

Straily has the 4 years of control though.

 

We also didn't complete a trade for MiGo. The point is this is not any sort of benchmark for Q or top of the line pitcher. There is no way to say "oh well they gave up 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system for a pitcher with a sudden improvement, and Q is worth...100x that. What is 100x 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system?" "...Three. Hundred. Prospects."

[Bob Sacamano]

We also didn't complete a trade for MiGo. The point is this is not any sort of benchmark for Q or top of the line pitcher. There is no way to say "oh well they gave up 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system for a pitcher with a sudden improvement, and Q is worth...100x that. What is 100x 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system?" "...Three. Hundred. Prospects."

 

I'm not arguing that the Marlins could have added more to that package and received Q though.

[ChiSox59]

We also didn't complete a trade for MiGo. The point is this is not any sort of benchmark for Q or top of the line pitcher. There is no way to say "oh well they gave up 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system for a pitcher with a sudden improvement, and Q is worth...100x that. What is 100x 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system?" "...Three. Hundred. Prospects."

 

That's not really what you said. You said this is insight into what a possible MiGo trade would look like - and the two arent really comparable because one has 3 additional years of control.

[ChiSox59]

I'm not arguing that the Marlins could have added more to that package and received Q though.

 

Marlins have no where near enough to land Q.

[shipps]

The only thing that the Marlins trade does is reinforce what we already knew. Teams have to pay a premium with their prospects if they want to land even decent SP.

[bmags]

That's not really what you said. You said this is insight into what a possible MiGo trade would look like - and the two arent really comparable because one has 3 additional years of control.

 

They are comparable. The teams in the market for Straily would be the same as Miguel Gonzalez, as noted by the rumors that the Marlins were interested in Miguel last July. They don't have much to spend, they need pitching, so these are the pitchers they can shop for. That they were willing to give up more to acquire Straily is certainly due to more years of control, but if you were looking for a benchmark for how valuable Q is, you don't look at this deal, if you want to know something closer to MiGo's top value, this is helpful.

[Bob Sacamano]

Marlins have no where near enough to land Q.

 

I agree. I didn't argue that haha

Edited January 19, 2017 by soxfan2014

[bmags]

I'm not arguing that the Marlins could have added more to that package and received Q though.

 

Yeah I was mostly responding to turnin two's argument. I do think this is helpful to see that if we get a nice performance out of one of our starters we could see these types of trades for Holland/MiGo/etc. We've been so focused on top of the line talent returns, it's hard to even figure out what those guys could get if flipped, and the teams that would be involved would be your Angels/Mariners/Marlins that are fringey contenders.

[steveno89]

Yeah I was mostly responding to turnin two's argument. I do think this is helpful to see that if we get a nice performance out of one of our starters we could see these types of trades for Holland/MiGo/etc. We've been so focused on top of the line talent returns, it's hard to even figure out what those guys could get if flipped, and the teams that would be involved would be your Angels/Mariners/Marlins that are fringey contenders.

 

Gonzalez quietly threw 135 pretty solid innings in 2016 and saved his career

 

Another similar performance in 2017 and he could have value at the deadline for a team in need of starting pitching depth

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

One theoretical trade argument at a time!

[Bob Sacamano]

Gonzalez quietly threw 135 pretty solid innings in 2016 and saved his career

 

Another similar performance in 2017 and he could have value at the deadline for a team in need of starting pitching depth

 

The Marlins were linked to him at the trade deadline last year, correct?

[steveno89]

Straily and Gonzalez may be comparable pitchers but the trade isn't a benchmark to gauge Gonzalez's value at all. If Gonzalez had four times the control that he has the Sox would likely get 2-3x the return they'll likely get in return for him.

 

Absolutely true, but he could net a decent return as a deadline rental on a contender that needs starting pitching depth for a stretch run, or in the event of injury?

 

Is he a premium trade chip? No, but another season like 2016 could result in teams calling about him in June/July

[turnin' two]

Yeah I was mostly responding to turnin two's argument. I do think this is helpful to see that if we get a nice performance out of one of our starters we could see these types of trades for Holland/MiGo/etc. We've been so focused on top of the line talent returns, it's hard to even figure out what those guys could get if flipped, and the teams that would be involved would be your Angels/Mariners/Marlins that are fringey contenders.

 

 

Not even sure that I made an argument. I was simply trying to point out that pitching, even mediocre pitching with no track record, commands a decent return. I made no reference to the Marlins trying to acquire Q, or that such a deal would have been the base for a deal for Q. I drew no parallel to the Marlin's farm system to the systems that could be utilized to get Q.

 

Again, just trying to point out the high price of pitching, and that I do not think it would be a good idea to drastically lower the asking price for Q, or take a deal out of fear or panic.

[steveno89]

Not even sure that I made an argument. I was simply trying to point out that pitching, even mediocre pitching with no track record, commands a decent return. I made no reference to the Marlins trying to acquire Q, or that such a deal would have been the base for a deal for Q. I drew no parallel to the Marlin's farm system to the systems that could be utilized to get Q.

 

Again, just trying to point out the high price of pitching, and that I do not think it would be a good idea to drastically lower the asking price for Q, or take a deal out of fear or panic.

 

The more we look at it, Quintana is realistically the only TOR starter on the market right now

 

There is zero reason to lower our asking price until it gets met. Teams won't give their best offers until they have to. The offers slowly get more sweetened to the point where serious offers get made, and then teams begin to make their "best offers". We are creeping towards that breaking point. Once the national media guys start tweeting, then we will see some activity.

 

Zero reason to panic, trust Hahn to pull off another brilliant move

[shipps]

Its interesting to see the reaction of some of the other teams fans on twitter to this trade thanking the Marlins for F'ing up their teams chances of landing Q. LOL The reality is that the price is not going down and its just clicking now with some of the fans.

[Quin]

Very true

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687747...culation/page/5

 

This is from bleacher report today and suggests a Pirates offer of: Meadows + Glasnow + Diaz might work for both sides

 

It suggests the White Sox will ask for Meadows + Glasnow + Keller, but the Pirates would be unwilling to part with that much. They could offer the lower tier Diaz instead to round out the package and fill in a platoon catcher option for the Sox.

 

I'd love a Meadows + Glasnow + Newman deal

 

I'd take a Meadows, Glasnow and Diaz deal any day of the week. That's better than the Eaton deal and probably better than the Sale deal.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Very true

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687747...culation/page/5

 

This is from bleacher report today and suggests a Pirates offer of: Meadows + Glasnow + Diaz might work for both sides

 

It suggests the White Sox will ask for Meadows + Glasnow + Keller, but the Pirates would be unwilling to part with that much. They could offer the lower tier Diaz instead to round out the package and fill in a platoon catcher option for the Sox.

 

I'd love a Meadows + Glasnow + Newman deal

 

 

Of course you would. Meadows, Glasnow and Newman is more than they got for Sale and Eaton.

[ChiSox59]

Straily and Gonzalez may be comparable pitchers but the trade isn't a benchmark to gauge Gonzalez's value at all. If Gonzalez had four times the control that he has the Sox would likely get 2-3x the return they'll likely get in return for him.

 

Yes, thank you. Thats what I was getting at. Comparable pitchers - yah, maybe. Their returns wouldn't be comparable at all, which was why I responded that way to the comment saying that the Strailey trade is insight into what a potential MiGo trade may look like.

 

Anyways...moving on.

[Y2Jimmy0]

People are excited about this return when they see #5 and #9 prospect for a pitcher the Reds got off the scrap heap but the Marlins system sucks. I know Law had his org rankings come out yesterday and I'd bet Marlins were 27ish. This is an awesome trade for Cinci regardless. Castillo is a great get for Straily. Marlins paid dearly for a cheap starter's control but I am just not sure Straily is all that good. I guess Miami's insulated playing in their park in the NL.

 

Straily's stats from 2016 are an example of how understanding advanced metrics really gives you a better idea of how a pitcher performed. Straily led the NL in HRs allowed. I checked bball-ref and His ERA was only 3.76 ERA despite giving up 1.5 HR/9. So you think, wow, he had to get lucky somewhere else to keep his ERA that low with all the homers given up. Go over to FanGraphs, Straily had the second lowest BABIP for all qualified starters in the MLB. Also had the sixth lowest strand rate in the MLB. Despite leading the league in HRs allowed, Straily HR/FB% was a touch below league average. Getting traded to Miami is absolutely huge for Straily. He was in for a rude awakening if he stayed in Cinci.

 

 

He had the Marlins at 29 with Arizona 30. Miami would clearly be #30 right now after this trade.

[Bob Sacamano]

It's been a few days since we have had a "(insert team here) still talking to the White Sox about Quintana" tweet. Let's predict who will tweet next.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

He had the Marlins at 29 with Arizona 30. Miami would clearly be #30 right now after this trade.

Angels are the worst. Detroit is up there too.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Angels are the worst. Detroit is up there too.

 

Marlins are pretty clearly 30th now IMO.