ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:37 AM) It wouldn't, but people are convinced that if the Sox dont get Mike Trout for Jose Quintana its a disaster. Aren't you Mr. Hyperbole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:37 AM) It wouldn't, but people are convinced that if the Sox dont get Mike Trout for Jose Quintana its a disaster. Mike Trout does the White Sox no good as of now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:27 PM) They can take their chances and hold on to him, but I think he gets traded a week from today. Wednesday, January 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 The dude has 0 AB's above A ball, the list of players that put up great number in A ball and below and never made it as an everyday player in the majors. Lets not get too carried away by a guy is on the same path as his brother who is looking a lot like a AAAA player. Sure he isn't his brother, he could end up being much better or could end up on the same path. This is kind of the point. Trade a major league asset for a littany of uncertain minor league assets in the hope that you fill 2 or 3 major league holes at the price of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Hmm, I wonder what the best team sox could put together if we swapped Q for Trout. This will occupy some time. Edit: Eh, not so bad so long as you believe stellar rookie campaigns from giolito, lopez, fullmer and moncada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:47 AM) Right now the Sox have a bad major league roster and a good-not-great farm that probably isn't good enough to elevate the major league team to success. They are doing a soft reboot, not an all out rebuild. Changing the topic for just a minute, I feel like if the Sox were going to go the bolded route, they would have actually signed some guys. They've let some pretty decent bats go off the market for dirt cheap. Colby Rasmus would have been nice on this team at $5M + incentives if they were planning to try to compete this year. The Sox would be mentioned more with the DH types on the market. They wouldn't be going into the season with Avi/Liriano at the top of the RF depth chart. They'd be looking at a guy like Hammel. At this point, I think its pretty obvious that the Sox are planning to let Melky and Frazier have a couple months to rake, move them for what they can, and then field a down to the studs starting lineup. That to me doesn't scream a team doing a half assed rebuild. Not trading Quintana prior to Feb 1 doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Q posting something to twitter for the first time in about a year a few minutes ago. I was pretty nervous about what it was going to translate too thinking it might be some breaking news but it was just him wishing happy birthday to his cute one year old daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:25 AM) Why? Kyle Tucker's trajectory right now is the moon. Low K's, high BB, big frame that can easily fill out for big power, athletic corner OF...what dont you like? The risk? The fact that he's not high enough ranked on lists? And why would he be the only position player? You think the Astros are like "OK you only get ONE position player prospect that's IT" I dont think so. Tucker has never projected to have big time power. His swing mechanics and path will always be an issue for having any plus power. I have an issue with Tucker being the headliner and he's only played 16 games in A+. Yes he has a big ceiling, but we are talking about Christian Yelich with less speed at best. He's not a slam dunk guarantee prospect that will make it in the majors. Tucker still has questions to be answered at the higher levels. Hahn is being smart and patient eventually a team will have a need and will trade a more established position prospect whether its this off season, trade deadline, or next year. No rush other than hurts your chances of getting a Top 3 choice in this years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 11:36 AM) Tucker has never projected to have big time power. His swing mechanics and path will always be an issue for having any plus power. I have an issue with Tucker being the headliner and he's only played 16 games in A+. Yes he has a big ceiling, but we are talking about Christian Yelich with less speed at best. He's not a slam dunk guarantee prospect that will make it in the majors. Tucker still has questions to be answered at the higher levels. Hahn is being smart and patient eventually a team will have a need and will trade a more established position prospect whether its this off season, trade deadline, or next year. No rush other than hurts your chances of getting a Top 3 choice in this years draft. Tucker is a good prospect, but certainly not enough to headline a Q deal on his own The power potential is purely projection at this point. He will play most of this season in high A Lancaster, which is one of the best hitters parks in the minor leagues. There are not many glaring downsides to Tucker, except if he cannot play center field the power will have to develop to hold down a corner outfield spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 12:03 PM) Q posting something to twitter for the first time in about a year a few minutes ago. I was pretty nervous about what it was going to translate too thinking it might be some breaking news but it was just him wishing happy birthday to his cute one year old daughter. Happy Birthday, little Q! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 The idea that there needs to be ONE HEADLINER (a position player, ofc) that needs to make or break a deal is counter to the entire benefit of trading Quintana. The issue with the White Sox the past 3 years has not been star power at the top, but the complete lack of decent players to fill out the roster with. So, the thinking goes, the Sox deal from their wealth of high tier guys to bring a quantity of talent so no longer will there need to be Jimmy Rollins at SS, Austin Jackson in CF, *nothing* at catcher, the likes of James Shields manning the lower end of the rotation etc. So even if the Sox were to get Austin Meadows, and even if he were to be a good hitting (.280/.350/20 HR) player with at a decent CF, it wouldn't really do them that much good because they basically traded one 5 WAR-ish player for another 5 WAR-ish player without getting much else. This was kind of my problem with the Sale trade, it almost forces Moncada to hit his ceiling and even if he does there's still a chance he's not worth more than Sale. Hopefully Kopech and/or Basabe really hit or that Diaz lottery ticket works out, that would accomplish something. But to bring this around to Kyle Tucker, the whole point of him being a good headliner is that he isn't worth what Meadows or Torres (has not played above A+ ball either, by the way). Not only does Hahn know that, more importantly Luhnow knows it too. By acquiring Tucker the Sox leave themselves in play for literally any other combination of players from the Astros farm system, nobody would be untouchable even after acquiring Tucker. And if the Sox were to pass on Martes they probably set themselves up even more for a big depth haul. The org needs 5 or so more guys (I hate this scale but I'll use it because it makes my point) who are 45FV or better. If they really plan on rebuilding the org needs to be 20 deep with serious talent before the draft in June, right now the Sox are at about half that with not many players on the cusp of a breakthrough. That's what the Q trade should be about. Strengthening the foundation of the minor league system and setting the Sox up to have a pipeline of talent moving through the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I looked at an Astros board earlier and someone suggested Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Reed. I'd probably do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I looked at an Astros board earlier and someone suggested Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Reed. I'd probably do that. I'd do that without thinking twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 01:28 PM) I looked at an Astros board earlier and someone suggested Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Reed. I'd probably do that. Something like this gets closer to making sense, but there is zero indications whatsoever that something like that is on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Something like this gets closer to making sense, but there is zero indications whatsoever that something like that is on the table. The leaked Tucker-Martes-Paulino + 2 prospects offer for Archer indicates that this kind of deal is probably possible. Perhaps the inclusion of Fisher and Reed would necessitate "lowering" Martes to Paulino or Perez (personally, I think both would be an improvement) but in any case, if the Sox wanted that deal I'm fairly certain they could get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 01:43 PM) The leaked Tucker-Martes-Paulino + 2 prospects offer for Archer indicates that this kind of deal is probably possible. Perhaps the inclusion of Fisher and Reed would necessitate "lowering" Martes to Paulino or Perez (personally, I think both would be an improvement) but in any case, if the Sox wanted that deal I'm fairly certain they could get it. Regarding the bolded, there is absolutely nothing out there that backs up this logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 01:45 PM) Regarding the bolded, there is absolutely nothing out there that backs up this logic. I agree. If that was offered, I think RH/KW would have taken it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Regarding the bolded, there is absolutely nothing out there that backs up this logic. "Absolutely nothing"? Not the fact that comparable deal for an inferior pitcher was turned down by the Rays? Might want to reconsider your words because to me there is strong indication that the Astros are willing to include almost any combination of minor league talent. The issue is Hahn is probably still pestering them over Musgrove and Bregman, because he apparently hasn't gotten the message that those guys aren't on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 01:28 PM) I looked at an Astros board earlier and someone suggested Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Reed. I'd probably do that. I would take that and I think I posted something similar not long ago. Don't get why some are down on Reed and Fisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I would take that and I think I posted something similar not long ago. Don't get why some are down on Reed and Fisher. Well Reed was pretty hopeless, there's definitely reason to be down on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) "Absolutely nothing"? Not the fact that comparable deal for an inferior pitcher was turned down by the Rays? Might want to reconsider your words because to me there is strong indication that the Astros are willing to include almost any combination of minor league talent. The issue is Hahn is probably still pestering them over Musgrove and Bregman, because he apparently hasn't gotten the message that those guys aren't on the move. Absolutely nothing = reports both on what the White Sox asked for, and what HOU offered TB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) "Absolutely nothing"? Not the fact that comparable deal for an inferior pitcher was turned down by the Rays? Might want to reconsider your words because to me there is strong indication that the Astros are willing to include almost any combination of minor league talent. The issue is Hahn is probably still pestering them over Musgrove and Bregman, because he apparently hasn't gotten the message that those guys aren't on the move. First of all - Martes+Tucker+Reed+Fischer does not equal Martes+Tucker+Paulino+ 2 absolute question marks. Paulino + 2 lottery ticket types doesn't equal Reed and Fischer. Second of all - how in god's green earth do you know how the Astros value Archer vs. Q? Archer, by the way, is controlled for an additional year at ~$2M less on AAV basis. I personally like Q more than Archer, but I am not an unbiased bystander, and until 2017, their numbers were pretty similar in the previous 3 seasons. I don't think it is too wildly farfetched to think that the Astros value Archer higher than Q, and maybe by a sizable margin. Let's not forget that Archer was the AL starter in the ASG in 2015, and to that point was widely considered one of the top RHP in the game. Furthermore, how about that rumored package that Houston turned down of Musgrove, Martes and Tucker? So they turn that down, but then replace Musgrove with Reed (a former top 20 prospect) and Tucker? C'mon man. You throw around way too many things like they're fact when you're just speculating. It is beyond annoying. Maybe RH is still trying to get Bregman - who knows? You certainly don't. So stop acting like its gospel. I think that a Martes, Tucker, Reed and Fischer package hasn't been offered, because if it had, those dudes would be White Sox. And why do I think that? Because on a player for player basis, that trade rivals the Sale deal and bests the Eaton deal, which actually happened and can be used as a legitimate basis for future deals (aka - fact). Edited January 20, 2017 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) "Absolutely nothing"? Not the fact that comparable deal for an inferior pitcher was turned down by the Rays? Might want to reconsider your words because to me there is strong indication that the Astros are willing to include almost any combination of minor league talent. The issue is Hahn is probably still pestering them over Musgrove and Bregman, because he apparently hasn't gotten the message that those guys aren't on the move. First off, he is not a drastically inferior pitcher. Over the last 3 years they have been pretty similar, with Q getting an edge and had a better year last year. You are guessing that RH/KW are still asking for one of the MLB pieces. So if the Rays turned down the deal and the sox did as well, this probably indicated more than anything that Houston just isn't willing to sell the farm for these pitchers. It may change but right now they aren't inclined to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) First of all - Martes+Tucker+Reed+Fischer does not equal Martes+Tucker+Paulino+ 2 absolute question marks. Paulino + 2 lottery ticket types doesn't equal Reed and Fischer. Second of all - how in god's green earth do you know how the Astros value Archer vs. Q? Archer, by the way, is controlled for an additional year at ~$2M less on AAV basis. I personally like Q more than Archer, but I am not an unbiased bystander, and until 2017, their numbers were pretty similar in the previous 3 seasons. I don't think it is too wildly farfetched to think that the Astros value Archer higher than Q, and maybe my a sizable margin. Let's not forget that Archer was the AL start in the ASG in 2015, and to that point was widely considered one of the top RHP in the game. You throw around way too many things like they're fact when you're just speculating. It is beyond annoying. Maybe RH is still trying to Bregman - who knows? You certainly don't. So stop acting like its gospel. I think that a Martes, Tucker, Reed and Fischer package hasn't been offeed, because if it had, those dude would be White Sox. And why do I think that? Because on a player for player basis, that trade rivals the Sale deal and bests the Eaton deal, which are actual fact. I should have just stopped typing and agreed with this post. I wish I would have taken keyboarding in high school. Is that course even offered anymore? I would imagine kids don't need it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Scott Merkin @scottmerkin 6m6 minutes ago More Fri seminar at SoxFest: La Vida Away from the Clubhouse with Jose Abreu, Melky Cabrera, Yoan Moncada and Jose Quintana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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