Teams have upped their offers in Q derby in the last week

[steveno89]

It definitely could be posturing but I do wonder. Beane probably doesn't want to deal with him and the Sox/Rays are asking for players he wont trade. His loss. That team likely isnt going to a win division with that rotation.

 

I know I'm not going to find many who agree, but I think Luhnow would give up Bregman for Quintana 1-for-1. That way he can move Gurriel to the 3rd and find some way to make 1b work with Marwin Gonzalez and/or AJ Reed. It actually hurts their 2017 chances more to move Musgrove, they are probably going to need him if (when) McCullers needs time off. Or if Keuchels shoulder problems just rob him completely of his abilities.

 

White sox absolutely should not accept bregman for Quintana straight up

[Con te Giolito]

White sox absolutely should not accept bregman for Quintana straight up

I agree wholeheartedly. Best case scenario they just replace Quintana with himself.

[BlackSox13]

I would get so much satisfaction from the Astros rotation completely blowing it next season.

I think you are going to be very satisfied my fellow Sox fan. I think Luhnow knows his starting pitching looks like Swiss cheese and is why he's reluctant to move their young minor league pitching because he knows he will need them at some point. Keuchel pitched more like Danks last year, McCullers only pitched 81 innings, McCugh is pretty much a #4, Morton on pitched 17 innings last year and I have no idea what to expect from Musgrove but I do think he will be solid. IMHO, aside from Musgrove that rotation is a mess and needs more than just one durable starter. That Houston offense is going to have to mash day in day out to compete in that division because their starting staff is going to give up plenty of runs. They finished third in their division last year and two games behind second place Seattle who I don't think they gained any ground on at all and it's possible they lost ground on Seattle so far this winter.

 

As of now I think the Texas and Seattle teams are still better despite the offensive additions made by Houston.

[Baron]

That's essentially what Luhnow was saying. They have pitching depth to replace injured starters. Pirates can sort of do that with Glasnow. This is why I dont like going into the season without resolving Q's status. The guys they would trade us are the guys they are going to use and potentially succeed with. That takes them out of the equation.

 

Frankly I think that would be silly of them. But look at the GMs your dealing with and realize that's exactly what they could do.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Baron

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yes. That last sentence is key. Appearing eager or desperate would cost me money in the real world every day. Every damn day. The problem for Hahn is that he's shown he doesn't plan on competing in 2017 by trading Sale & Eaton. So other GMs smell blood in the water right now, January 20th.

 

But that all changes the minute a team feels the pressure to need a TOR starter on a cheap contract. They will have to cave. It's not an IF but a WHEN. Patience Sox fans. This is how all deals in all industries are done. If you have the rare, coveted supply the demand will find you, always.

 

 

Great post. I love your supply and demand quote and I'll probably steal it and use for myself.

[iamshack]

That's essentially what Luhnow was saying. They have pitching depth to replace injured starters. Pirates can sort of do that with Glasnow. This is why I dont like going into the season without resolving Q's status. The guys they would trade us are the guys they are going to use and potentially succeed with. That takes them out of the equation.

 

Frankly I think that would be silly of them. But look at the GMs your dealing with and realize that's exactly what they could do.

I just don't get the hang up here...there will be other guys that replace the ones that get moved up to the big league club...unless you are love with a particular guy, I don't get this fear at all.

[Baron]

I just don't get the hang up here...there will be other guys that replace the ones that get moved up to the big league club...unless you are love with a particular guy, I don't get this fear at all.

 

 

Havent we gone over this already? At the deadline there is going to be limits from these teams on who they'll be willing to give up. Even more so than the offseason. I dont see teams pulling players out of the lineup or their depth in AAA(major league ready prospects) for a player at the deadline. It's screwing themselves over for a playoff run.

 

If you think the White Sox would take players further down the line then that's interesting. But from what we're witnessed so far that doesnt seem like their interested in a top player who's 5 years out headlining a package.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Baron

[iamshack]

Havent we gone over this already? At the deadline there is going to be limits from these teams on who they'll be willing to give up. Even more so than the offseason. Hahn is limiting himself on who he can actually acquire the further this goes into the season.

That simply has not been proven to be true.

 

All I have to say is this...could you have gotten Andrew Benintendi at the deadline last year? He is someone you might not have identified last offseason.

 

THERE WILL BE OTHER GUYS THAT TAKE HUGE STEPS BETWEEN NOW AND JULY.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

There's just no point in discussing this anymore until something actually happens.

[Baron]

That simply has not been proven to be true.

 

All I have to say is this...could you have gotten Andrew Benintendi at the deadline last year? He is someone you might not have identified last offseason.

 

THERE WILL BE OTHER GUYS THAT TAKE HUGE STEPS BETWEEN NOW AND JULY.

 

 

 

The Red Sox did exactly what these other teams are probably threatening to do. They didnt pull the trigger and road their offense. Fortunately for us it didnt work and we were able to cash in on a horrible free agent market. Next offseason that wont be the case as these teams will have more options.

 

Sure these teams could pull the trigger before then and I hope they do. But if this thing goes past the deadline I'm not liking the potential outcome. Then you guys can sit here and preach patience when the market grinds to a halt. I seriously cant wait for the tune to change if this actually happens.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Baron

[NCsoxfan]

There's just no point in discussing this anymore until something actually happens.

 

Well it is a "message board", kind of the purpose to discuss stuff like this for fun!

[R4YL3]

The Red Sox did exactly what these other teams are probably threatening to do. They didnt pull the trigger and road their offense. Fortunately for us it didnt work and we were able to cash in on a horrible free agent market. Next offseason that wont be the case as these teams will have more options.

 

Sure these teams could pull the trigger before then and I hope they do. But if this thing goes past the deadline I'm not liking the potential outcome. Then you guys can sit here and preach patience when the market grinds to a halt. I seriously cant wait for the tune to change if this actually happens.

 

That is where I disagree with you. I don't think that Houston or Pittsburgh will ever be teams that sign elite pitchers on the free agent market. Their market dictates they will have to trade or develop one. Pittsburgh is on the clock with Cole getting closer to free agency.

Edited January 21, 2017 by NYSOX607

[Soha]

Astros GM Jeff Luhnow: "I think the roster we have is probably the roster that we’re going to have to start the season.”

https://twitter.com/jakemkaplan

 

Posturing to the max.

 

I believe it's true. Once this thing went in to the new year, it had been a month of back and forth with these teams, with little to nothing changing any variables. If they haven't done it now, then obviously the 2 sides aren't going to budge. I'm pretty confidant we're heading in to the season with Quintana as our #1. I'm fine with taking the risks involved, because it potentially opens up new suitors (like for example if one of the Cubs starters throws out his arm in spring training).

 

The bummer for me is they haven't ripped this down anywhere near close enough to be in the Seth Beer sweepstakes. Frazier, Cabrera, Abreu...they're all still here and will help win many games this coming season. So it's more looking like a partial rebuild than a full rebuild, which is a little disappointing.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I'm not sure why the Sox are stuck on Musgrove's inclusion in any Astros deal if the indications are correct. Let Houston keep him and ask for more hitting in exchange.

[hi8is]

There's just no point in discussing this anymore until something actually happens.

+1000000000000000000000

[steveno89]

I believe it's true. Once this thing went in to the new year, it had been a month of back and forth with these teams, with little to nothing changing any variables. If they haven't done it now, then obviously the 2 sides aren't going to budge. I'm pretty confidant we're heading in to the season with Quintana as our #1. I'm fine with taking the risks involved, because it potentially opens up new suitors (like for example if one of the Cubs starters throws out his arm in spring training).

 

 

The bummer for me is they haven't ripped this down anywhere near close enough to be in the Seth Beer sweepstakes. Frazier, Cabrera, Abreu...they're all still here and will help win many games this coming season. So it's more looking like a partial rebuild than a full rebuild, which is a little disappointing.

 

Likely the sox have not had much interest in frazier, melky or abreu yet. Why accept a poor offer for the sake of tanking?

 

I don't think the sox are the worst team in baseball, even if Quintana gets traded. Have you seen the padres rotation?

[Chicago White Sox]

The bummer for me is they haven't ripped this down anywhere near close enough to be in the Seth Beer sweepstakes. Frazier, Cabrera, Abreu...they're all still here and will help win many games this coming season. So it's more looking like a partial rebuild than a full rebuild, which is a little disappointing.

The team is going to suck regardless, but right now as the roster stands, I don't see a chance at the 1st or 2nd pick. And something conveniently ignored by the "wait" crowd is how much more valuable those first few picks are from a historical perspective than other 1st rounders. Who here thinks the Cubs win the World Series last year without Kris Bryant? A guy like Seth Beer could have a similar kind of impact for us and trading Quintana would greatly improve our odds of drafting such a player. Again, I'm not suggesting taking a crap offer, but the decision to trade Q now or wait and hope for a better offer later better consider that opportunity cost. The decision should also consider what waiting does to our competitive window and the value of other assets. Rodon & Anderson are already up. Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, & Burdi should be up by June or July. That's a huge part of our core and the clock starts ticking this year. Pushing back a Quintana trade until the deadline will likely result in prospects further away from helping, which means it could be several years until they are productive major leaguers supplementing our existing core. That pushes back our competitive window and forces us to waste valuable seasons out of key assets while we're waiting for reinforcements to arrive. Just another opportunity cost that must be factored in when deciding whether to sell now or hold off in hopes for more down the road.

[Con te Giolito]

I'm not sure why the Sox are stuck on Musgrove's inclusion in any Astros deal if the indications are correct. Let Houston keep him and ask for more hitting in exchange.

They simply aren't as motivated to deal Quintana as they were Eaton and Sale. Hell, they are more reluctant to give up Robertson and Melky than they were those two. I really hope they snap out of it and do what's right, there is still time, but right now it's clear some non baseball issues are governing baseball moves.

[witesoxfan]

I believe it's true. Once this thing went in to the new year, it had been a month of back and forth with these teams, with little to nothing changing any variables. If they haven't done it now, then obviously the 2 sides aren't going to budge. I'm pretty confidant we're heading in to the season with Quintana as our #1. I'm fine with taking the risks involved, because it potentially opens up new suitors (like for example if one of the Cubs starters throws out his arm in spring training).

 

The bummer for me is they haven't ripped this down anywhere near close enough to be in the Seth Beer sweepstakes. Frazier, Cabrera, Abreu...they're all still here and will help win many games this coming season. So it's more looking like a partial rebuild than a full rebuild, which is a little disappointing.

 

Why trade anything for Abreu right now? A team could just as easily sign Napoli or Carter and get comparable, though worse overall, production out of them without having to give up a lot of young pieces. I am certain that Cabrera will be moved at some point between now and July 31st, and that's OK because his value isn't going to diminish all that greatly and, due to a lesser salary and the need for his bat during a stretch run, may actually increase ever so slightly by the deadline due to a diminished overall monetary cost.

 

Frazier I am less certain about. Any team acquiring him needs to send equal or superior value to that of a late 2nd round pick. Given Frazier's production to this point, there would be little reason to not make him a qualifying offer, given the limited payroll restrictions that the Sox will have, assuming he doesn't completely fall off the planet at this point. They can keep him all year and either get a 2nd round pick for him when he leaves or bring him back again too. He seems to be the consummate professional who will be a phenomenal role model for younger players learning the game.

[Chicago White Sox]

They simply aren't as motivated to deal Quintana as they were Eaton and Sale. Hell, they are more reluctant to give up Robertson and Melky than they were those two. I really hope they snap out of it and do what's right, there is still time, but right now it's clear some non baseball issues are governing baseball moves.

Reluctant to give up Robertson & Melky? Those guys have no markets right now. I think you're really reaching here. This idea they faked a rebuild in order to trade the pro-LaRoche crowd is tinfoil hat crazy.

[Soha]

The team is going to suck regardless, but right now as the roster stands, I don't see a chance at the 1st or 2nd pick. And something conveniently ignored by the "wait" crowd is how much more valuable those first few picks are from a historical perspective than other 1st rounders. Who here thinks the Cubs win the World Series last year without Kris Bryant? A guy like Seth Beer could have a similar kind of impact for us and trading Quintana would greatly improve our odds of drafting such a player. Again, I'm not suggesting taking a crap offer, but the decision to trade Q now or wait and hope for a better offer later better consider that opportunity cost. The decision should also consider what waiting does to our competitive window and the value of other assets. Rodon & Anderson are already up. Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, & Burdi should be up by June or July. That's a huge part of our core and the clock starts ticking this year. Pushing back a Quintana trade until the deadline will likely result in prospects further away from helping, which means it could be several years until they are productive major leaguers supplementing our existing core. That pushes back our competitive window and forces us to waste valuable seasons out of key assets while we're waiting for reinforcements to arrive. Just another opportunity cost that must be factored in when deciding whether to sell now or hold off in hopes for more down the road.

 

Yeah I'm thinking along the the same lines. Is the little bit extra you get for Q now, worth the lotta bit less you probably get in the 2018 draft by waiting until the deadline to move him? We know how these drafts go. Sometimes you get potential superstars in the top few spots and then it falls off a cliff. And to be fair, sometimes it turns out to not matter. Though reports of the potential 2018 class shows it might matter quite a bit.

[Dick Allen]

The Sox are 58-74 in games Q starts the last 4 years. Taking Eaton out of the offense, I don't think if they keep him during the season(which I doubt) will make much difference in where they ultimately draft.

[Chicago White Sox]

The Sox are 58-74 in games Q starts the last 4 years. Taking Eaton out of the offense, I don't think if they keep him during the season(which I doubt) will make much difference in where they ultimately draft.

So basically you're two arguments are as follows:

 

1) Since Quintana has been one of the unluckiest pitchers in baseball history, it's safe to assume he'll continue to be one in 2017

 

2) Despite the difference of the 8th & 2nd picks being three wins last year, no one player can have any impact on draft position whatsoever

 

Please confirm that I'm not misinterpreting your post, because the above is exactly what it sounds like.

[southsider2k5]

That simply has not been proven to be true.

 

All I have to say is this...could you have gotten Andrew Benintendi at the deadline last year? He is someone you might not have identified last offseason.

 

THERE WILL BE OTHER GUYS THAT TAKE HUGE STEPS BETWEEN NOW AND JULY.

 

I know of two that wouldn't have been, that we got now.

[Dick Allen]

So basically you're two arguments are as follows:

 

1) Since Quintana has been one of the unluckiest pitchers in baseball history, it's safe to assume he'll continue to be one in 2017

 

2) Despite the difference of the 8th & 2nd picks being three wins last year, no one player can have any impact on draft position whatsoever

 

Please confirm that I'm not misinterpreting your post, because the above is exactly what it sounds like.

You think he will all of a sudden get lucky with Eaton out of RF and Avi in? They most likely will trade him pretty soon IMO, but this is a bad team. Probably as bad as they were in 2013 when they were 12-20 in Q's starts. .375 winning pct x 162= 60 wins.

 

Every White Sox pitcher who has pitched well the last 4 years has been considered unlucky. They will be again in 2017 with an offense that was horrible with Eaton, and now doesn't have him, and hasn't added anyone of significance to the 2017 line up.

 

I know you are all for taking less now, but that is silly. The Sox got Frank Thomas with the 7th pick. If they were selecting earlier, they would have drafted Jeff Jackson. Having the higher pick is more desireable, however, it doesn't guarantee the better player. I would rather they hold out for better players that have already developed.

 

You are all over the place though. Need to dump him because he might get hurt or start sucking. Need to dump him for whatever you can get now because he is so good your draft position is going to change significantly if he is kept. Well, if that is the case, you will more than make up for it with the increased package he would command at that time.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Dick Allen