Teams have upped their offers in Q derby in the last week

[pablo]

I don't think the Astros make that trade. Personally, I'd jump all over that.

 

It's interesting, we've been talking about a potential Q trade seriously since Eaton was traded and with mostly conjecture even past that. Nobody has ever been a huge fan of the Astros headliners in Martes and Tucker and frankly I get that. Despite that, the Astros have so many exciting pieces to round out a package. To me, the only must have is Kyle Tucker. I like Martes more than most around here but there's certainly some risk there. If the Astros are going to be so adamant, at least in the media, that he factors on their 2017 roster and they don't want to trade him, fine, but just how much deeper a package are they willing to make to make up for it? Same goes for Musgrove. If they want to pick and choose their package for an elite value like Quintana then they would have to sacrifice a lot of depth and I think, given the Astros pieces, that could be a worthy endeavor for the Sox.

 

If I am the Sox, I add anyone on the MLB roster that could help the Astros to get more players from the Astros. Their top lefty looks to be Tony Sipp. Throw in Dan Jennings.

 

Start with Kyle Tucker.

 

Then you go for four of David Paulino, Franklin Perez, Ramon Laureano, Derek Fisher, Garrett Stubbs, AJ Reed, Michael Feliz and the 75th pick.

 

Paulino is a giant man who could be just as good as a prospect as Martes by July in my opinion. These rankings are so fluid and the profiles are pretty similar. I think Paulino has less of a chance to remain a starter but a man as big as him, with the lack of innings he has had to this point who is putting up such strong peripherals with such strong reviews on his stuff is an exciting prospect. He returned from TJS in 2015 and was outstanding. He reached full recovery last year and pitched damn well in some terrible pitching climates. He got suspended for the team for undisclosed reasons too so maybe some makeup concerns dilute his value to the Astros.

 

Perez is all projection but could be very exciting if your scouts like him. Laureano is on base, speed, pop and tools. Fisher is a buy low, hear ready, power-speed OBP guy. Stubbs can receive, has a great arm behind the plate and he can get on base. I don't like Reed but another near-ready, buy low guy. I LOVE Michael Feliz. Trade for him now and he's a part of your ridiculous bullpen when you do compete again. Not the best bet or use of a Q return, but I am 100% in on Feliz and I am sure the Astros would be unwilling to include him. Value of 75th pick is obvious.

 

If Sox could trade Q and Jennings for Tucker (2018/2019), Paulino (2017/2018), Laureano (2017/2018), Fisher (2017) and 75th pick I would do it. All of a sudden you have incredible outfield depth with Tucker/Laureano/D. Fisher, J. Fisher/Call and then some outside chance one of Engel/May/Tilson are something.

 

I guess my rambling point - the Astros offer plenty of exciting depth. Maybe the Sox should expand and diversify their return and let Lunhow keep both of Martes/Musgrove for 2016.

 

That's a done deal for me as well. Depending on how confident the Sox scouts are on Franklin Perez, I would take him instead of Paulino.

 

Tucker, Perez, Fisher, Laureano/Stubbs and the 75th pick.

 

It makes sense from the Astros perspective as well. They have tremendous OF depth in their system for essentially one OF spot in the big leagues with Springer and Reddick there for the foreseeable future. Additionally, they keep Musgrove, Martes and Paulino who are their two closest arms to the big leagues and could help in a playoff push this season. Teoscar Hernandez is ready to step into the OF in case someone goes down.

 

From the Sox side, adding Martes or Paulino would be nice, don't get me wrong. But with Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Kopech, Hansen etc, it makes sense to add a young projectible SP that could be in the next wave after these guys. And again, depending on how much the Sox scouts like him.

Edited January 31, 2017 by pablo

[steveno89]

That's a done deal for me as well. Depending on how confident the Sox scouts are on Franklin Perez, I would take him instead of Paulino.

 

Tucker, Perez, Fisher, Laureano/Stubbs and the 75th pick.

 

It makes sense from the Astros perspective as well. They have tremendous OF depth in their system for essentially one OF spot in the big leagues with Springer and Reddick there for the foreseeable future. Additionally, they keep Musgrove, Martes and Paulino who are their two closest arms to the big leagues and could help in a playoff push this season. Teoscar Hernandez is ready to step into the OF in case someone goes down.

 

From the Sox side, adding Martes or Paulino would be nice, don't get me wrong. But with Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Kopech, Hansen etc, it makes sense to add a young projectible SP that could be in the next wave after these guys. And again, depending on how much the Sox scouts like him.

 

The main issue with taking a package like that is that we essentially would be lowering the pricetag significantly for Quintana. If we would accept a depth package then over half the league should very much be in on him.

 

Those are all nice prospects, but each come with some serious question marks. I am hesitant to deal a top 20 mlb starter on such a valuable contract for 4-5 "maybes". Our system needs depth for sure, but I'd rather acquire 3 very high caliber prospects than 4 good prospects and a draft pick

 

We would be banking heavily on Tucker to reach his ceiling, and if he does not I'm not sure the rest of the package is enough to overcome that

 

Quintana is a trade piece that can acquire a nearly untouchable prospect or two, and we should be looking for players that have potential allstar upside in return for him. Not just organizational depth

Edited January 31, 2017 by steveno89

[oneofthemikes]

The main issue with taking a package like that is that we essentially would be lowering the pricetag significantly for Quintana. If we would accept a depth package then over half the league should very much be in on him.

 

Those are all nice prospects, but each come with some serious question marks. I am hesitant to deal a top 20 mlb starter on such a valuable contract for 4-5 "maybes". Our system needs depth for sure, but I'd rather acquire 3 very high caliber prospects than 4 good prospects and a draft pick

 

We would be banking heavily on Tucker to reach his ceiling, and if he does not I'm not sure the rest of the package is enough to overcome that

 

Quintana is a trade piece that can acquire a nearly untouchable prospect or two, and we should be looking for players that have potential allstar upside in return for him. Not just organizational depth

To that point, for a little while now this has felt to me like the Yankees are waiting to strike. They aren't moving because they don't have to yet, but they know that they have an ace up their sleeve in Torres or Frazier. Once HOU, PIT, or ATL blink, I wouldn't be shocked if the Yankees get involved again. Because something like Frazier, Rutherford, Andujar, and Clarkin (or some other projectable pitcher) would be pretty enticing.

[pablo]

The main issue with taking a package like that is that we essentially would be lowering the pricetag significantly for Quintana. If we would accept a depth package then over half the league should very much be in on him.

 

Those are all nice prospects, but each come with some serious question marks. I am hesitant to deal a top 20 mlb starter on such a valuable contract for 4-5 "maybes". Our system needs depth for sure, but I'd rather acquire 3 very high caliber prospects than 4 good prospects and a draft pick

 

We would be banking heavily on Tucker to reach his ceiling, and if he does not I'm not sure the rest of the package is enough to overcome that

 

Quintana is a trade piece that can acquire a nearly untouchable prospect or two, and we should be looking for players that have potential allstar upside in return for him. Not just organizational depth

 

Agree with you in that a depth package can open the bidding to just about every team, but for most teams it would be at the expense of losing all their depth. In looking at Keith Law's top 10 farm systems (which ironically doesn't include the Astros), 5 of the systems would likely have no interest in Quintana or have shown no interest - Padres, Dodgers, Brewers, Mets, Reds. The remaining 4 teams - Braves, Yankees, Pirates, Rockies - have all been mentioned as teams that are possible destination. If you take my or raBBit's suggested depth package, the 4 remaining interested suitors likely could beat the Astros if they tried hard, but quite possible they don't offer as much. Maybe instead they offer one to two premium prospects in which the Sox would then have to decide between a star package or a depth package. My point being is the suggested depth packages do not necessarily affect what we have already discussed in these threads as the interested teams likely remain the same.

[southsider2k5]

To that point, for a little while now this has felt to me like the Yankees are waiting to strike. They aren't moving because they don't have to yet, but they know that they have an ace up their sleeve in Torres or Frazier. Once HOU, PIT, or ATL blink, I wouldn't be shocked if the Yankees get involved again. Because something like Frazier, Rutherford, Andujar, and Clarkin (or some other projectable pitcher) would be pretty enticing.

 

This is what I keep thinking. With seemingly Houston, Atlanta, and Pittsburgh unwilling to put their top players, or maybe even top couple of players into these deals, the Yankees can just sit here and watch and one up everyone else's offer at any time they want. They can do it with top end player/s, or they can do a much better quantity deal than any of those other teams.

[Steve9347]

Well, we have an ace for the first half of 2017, it seems.

[flavum]

Well, we have an ace for the first half of 2017, it seems.

 

Cue the James Shields gif.

[hi8is]

Cue the James Shields gif.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Well, we have an ace for the first half of 2017, it seems.

Quintana isn't an ace you idiot, just look at his win/loss record. 4th starter at best.

[steveno89]

Agree with you in that a depth package can open the bidding to just about every team, but for most teams it would be at the expense of losing all their depth. In looking at Keith Law's top 10 farm systems (which ironically doesn't include the Astros), 5 of the systems would likely have no interest in Quintana or have shown no interest - Padres, Dodgers, Brewers, Mets, Reds. The remaining 4 teams - Braves, Yankees, Pirates, Rockies - have all been mentioned as teams that are possible destination. If you take my or raBBit's suggested depth package, the 4 remaining interested suitors likely could beat the Astros if they tried hard, but quite possible they don't offer as much. Maybe instead they offer one to two premium prospects in which the Sox would then have to decide between a star package or a depth package. My point being is the suggested depth packages do not necessarily affect what we have already discussed in these threads as the interested teams likely remain the same.

 

It might change the interested teams

 

Texas could be involved with a depth package, as could the Braves

 

A Tucker headed depth package could be pretty easily beaten by another ballclub

 

The reason no trade has happened yet is that the Sox are firm on the asking price, as they should continue to be. Hahn did say a deal was close on Christmas Eve, but fell through. Likely the result of the Yankees backing out of a three team deal involving the Pirates

[BlackSox13]

This is what I keep thinking. With seemingly Houston, Atlanta, and Pittsburgh unwilling to put their top players, or maybe even top couple of players into these deals, the Yankees can just sit here and watch and one up everyone else's offer at any time they want. They can do it with top end player/s, or they can do a much better quantity deal than any of those other teams.

Good point and that would be a Yankee kind of thing to do. It's kind of a similar approach to signing big named free agents except that they make an offer so big that very few teams, if any, can match or come close to the Yanks offer.

 

Call me crazy but I get the feeling Theo is sitting on the fringe with Cashman waiting to see what the offers are to decide if they want to meet or exceed the offers. The cubs have the hitting prospects that are for the most part blocked at the big league level so the cubs could easily part with them without affecting their 25 man roster. It's probably more wishful sinful thinking on my part because I admit I really like Happ, Candelario and Jimenez as prospects.

[Bob Sacamano]

Good point and that would be a Yankee kind of thing to do. It's kind of a similar approach to signing big named free agents except that they make an offer so big that very few teams, if any, can match or come close to the Yanks offer.

 

Call me crazy but I get the feeling Theo is sitting on the fringe with Cashman waiting to see what the offers are to decide if they want to meet or exceed the offers. The cubs have the hitting prospects that are for the most part blocked at the big league level so the cubs could easily part with them without affecting their 25 man roster. It's probably more wishful sinful thinking on my part because I admit I really like Happ, Candelario and Jimenez as prospects.

 

Me too.

[southsider2k5]

Good point and that would be a Yankee kind of thing to do. It's kind of a similar approach to signing big named free agents except that they make an offer so big that very few teams, if any, can match or come close to the Yanks offer.

 

Call me crazy but I get the feeling Theo is sitting on the fringe with Cashman waiting to see what the offers are to decide if they want to meet or exceed the offers. The cubs have the hitting prospects that are for the most part blocked at the big league level so the cubs could easily part with them without affecting their 25 man roster. It's probably more wishful sinful thinking on my part because I admit I really like Happ, Candelario and Jimenez as prospects.

 

As much as I think we match up well with the Cubs, I think they would have to WAY outbid everyone else in order to win Q from the White Sox.

[oneofthemikes]

What did we decide about the InsideBaseball6 twitter account? Legit or not, yesterday he tweeted that the Yankees and Sox are still talking occasionally about Q and Robertson.

[Bob Sacamano]

What did we decide about the InsideBaseball6 twitter account? Legit or not, yesterday he tweeted that the Yankees and Sox are still talking occasionally about Q and Robertson.

 

I don't know. But I wouldn't doubt it since the Sox are probably talking with at least 5 teams about Q. We don't need tweets to know they are talking to someone. We are beyond that at this point.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

A deal with the Cubs would have to involve Eloy, Happ, and Candelario. Minimum.

[shipps]

Man, I know its all we got right now but how are you guys still interested with offering up hypothetical's for Q? Havent we already ran through about all the possibilities like 1000 times through, if not more, for each possibility multiple times?

[Quin]

Man, I know its all we got right now but how are you guys still interested with offering up hypothetical's for Q? Havent we already ran through about all the possibilities like 1000 times through, if not more, for each possibility multiple times?

 

Q for Chris Sale

[southsider2k5]

Q for Chris Sale

 

What do you think we could get for Shipps?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Man, I know its all we got right now but how are you guys still interested with offering up hypothetical's for Q? Havent we already ran through about all the possibilities like 1000 times through, if not more, for each possibility multiple times?

You know what, you're exactly right.

 

I don't think the Sox are that far away from competing, but they need another ace and a solid outfielder to replace Avi.

 

Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, and Diaz for Chris Sale and Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning for Adam Eaton could get the Sox back in contention. What do you think?

[Quin]

What do you think we could get for Shipps?

 

Fernando Tatis, Jr.

[shipps]

In order to land me you would at least need a rabbit plus a couple lower level guys in ss2k and kyle

[reiks12]

You know what, you're exactly right.

 

I don't think the Sox are that far away from competing, but they need another ace and a solid outfielder to replace Avi.

 

Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, and Diaz for Chris Sale and Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning for Adam Eaton could get the Sox back in contention. What do you think?

 

Absolutely not. Sale commands more trade value than that. Replace Diaz woth Devers and that maybe starts some dialogue. Also we arent going to trade Eaton.. LOL GET REAL

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Fernando Tatis, Jr.

 

 

Done.

[BlackSox13]

As much as I think we match up well with the Cubs, I think they would have to WAY outbid everyone else in order to win Q from the White Sox.

I'm on the fence to be honest. Part of me agrees the cubs should have to overpay but the other part me doesn't really care because adding Happ, Candelario and Jimenez would be a huge boost to a farm that could use more quality hitting prospects. Candelario is ready now.Happ could be ready for the '18 season and adding Jimenez to Basabe ( both outfielders) down in A ball would be fun to keep track of.

 

Taking the rivalry aspect of it out of the equation. Those three hitters for Q is probably pretty close to fair value. Now bring the rivalry back into the equation ask ourselves, how much more will it take? This is the part I get hung up on because I'm not sure how much that "rivalry tax" is worth.