BlackSox13 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 12:55 PM) Everyone seems to be ignoring that there will be restrictions on him coming over as he will be an amateur free agent. Nah, just thinking the Cubs will be a very attractive team for him to sign with. Otani fits right in with the young players the cubs already have. Edited April 7, 2017 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 12:57 PM) Don't know. I don't think a team would want to give up their DH to have him pitch and hit in the AL. He makes it 4 or 5 innings, you have a problem. I think he ends up in NY, LA, or Seattle. He didn't mean to have him pitch and hit in the same game I believe. Edit: double-checking the post above, it isn't what he meant. But I do agree a bit. I don't think he will come over and do both (unless he is in the NL as an occasional pinch-hitter/DH in inter-league games where a team doesn't have a primary DH). Edited April 7, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 In his chat yesterday, KLaw said Otani as a hitter is very overrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 12:59 PM) He didn't mean to have him pitch and hit in the same game I believe. Edit: double-checking the post above, it isn't what he meant. Kind of weird he would be good enough to be a DH when he wasn't pitching, but have a DH hit for him if he was. I think he would rather go to the NL myself if he plans on playing both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 01:03 PM) Kind of weird he would be good enough to be a DH when he wasn't pitching, but have a DH hit for him if he was. I think he would rather go to the NL myself if he plans on playing both. I kinda get it. That way, when he is taken out, you don't need to lose the DH spot. Kinda like what you said above. You can make the argument last season for that instance with Bumgarner last year actually. Batted in a game he started but wasn't the DH in any other inter-league game with a DH. What sense does that make? Edited April 7, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 01:03 PM) Kind of weird he would be good enough to be a DH when he wasn't pitching, but have a DH hit for him if he was. I think he would rather go to the NL myself if he plans on playing both. When he is pitching you want him focusing on pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 01:15 PM) When he is pitching you want him focusing on pitching. If he fancies himself a 2 way player, the NL is far more attractive, but money will talk. It will probably be mostly endorsement potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 01:21 PM) If he fancies himself a 2 way player, the NL is far more attractive, but money will talk. It will probably be mostly endorsement potential. Yeah. And couldn't he potentially sign a bigger bonus than what he is making over there now? I admit, I post that thought without knowing anything about his salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) Yeah. And couldn't he potentially sign a bigger bonus than what he is making over there now? I admit, I post that thought without knowing anything about his salary. My impression is some portion of his bonus will go to his posting fee so he really is going to probably get paid less. But it sounds like to him, this is all about playing at the top competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) Nah, just thinking the Cubs will be a very attractive team for him to sign with. Otani fits right in with the young players the cubs already have. It doesn't matter because they can't sign him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 02:26 PM) It doesn't matter because they can't sign him I was going to say, they are still stuck not being able to sign anyone over $300k next signing period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) If you can land Robert, you do it. Definitely take advantage of the Cuban connection if possible. There should be zero confidence in our ability to land Otani. Edited April 7, 2017 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 03:27 PM) If you can land Robert, you do it. Definitely take advantage of the Cuban connection if possible. There should zero confidence in our ability to land Otani. Yes, all things being equal, Otani is a pipe dream. At least with Robert, you have the Cuban history, and can at least sell a team that could be good when he is ready. Otani would be going into a rebuild on a team where even the people in their city are pretty indifferent. If they don't land Robert, obviously give it a try, but the odds are next to zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I really doubt that Otani comes over after the season. He could but the new CBA severely limits the amount of $$ he can make. He'd get a contract around $150-$200 million if he were a true free agent and he'd get it if he waited until he were 25. Let's pretend that Otani decides to come over after the season. The following teams can't sign him: Houston, Oakland, Atlanta, St. Louis, Cubs, Dodgers, San Francisco, Washington, San Diego, Cincinnati, and Kansas City. Small market teams could pay him $10 million and would control his rights for 6 years. Large market teams could pay him $8.3 million and control his rights for 6 years. Yankees have been speculative fit. They could give him $8.3 million. That's it. People have wondered whether a team could sign him and then rip up the arb years and extend him for huge $$. I guess they could but it'd be a deliberate skirting of the current international rules put in place. This situation should be fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 03:27 PM) If you can land Robert, you do it. Definitely take advantage of the Cuban connection if possible. There should be zero confidence in our ability to land Otani. I have confidence in them pursuing Ohtani. The Sox were very much in pursuit of Tanaka and were reported to be in the final mix, which means they had to have a $100M+ offer on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 07:46 PM) I have confidence in them pursuing Ohtani. The Sox were very much in pursuit of Tanaka and were reported to be in the final mix, which means they had to have a $100M+ offer on the table. We can only land one or the other, so my point is you don't pass on Robert where you have a slight edge over the competition for a guy who would be forgoing a f***ton of money by coming to the states next season and who may have no interest in playing for your organization. Edited April 8, 2017 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I believe 60mins is on now. Currently hurrying my ass home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 7, 2017 -> 03:34 PM) I really doubt that Otani comes over after the season. He could but the new CBA severely limits the amount of $$ he can make. He'd get a contract around $150-$200 million if he were a true free agent and he'd get it if he waited until he were 25. Let's pretend that Otani decides to come over after the season. The following teams can't sign him: Houston, Oakland, Atlanta, St. Louis, Cubs, Dodgers, San Francisco, Washington, San Diego, Cincinnati, and Kansas City. Small market teams could pay him $10 million and would control his rights for 6 years. Large market teams could pay him $8.3 million and control his rights for 6 years. Yankees have been speculative fit. They could give him $8.3 million. That's it. People have wondered whether a team could sign him and then rip up the arb years and extend him for huge $$. I guess they could but it'd be a deliberate skirting of the current international rules put in place. This situation should be fascinating. There are ways to be creative. A team can give Otani $8M upfront on a signing bonus, and then have a handshake deal in place for a long term contract after the season. The Sox just set a precedent with this by giving Anderson an extension before he had even reached one full year of service time. So essentially he would make $8M next season (about twice what he would in Japan) and then have an extension in place that would likely pay him at least $15M over the next six years. That gives the team 7 years of control and allows Otani to be a FA again in his age 29 season where he could pull in another large contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) There are ways to be creative. A team can give Otani $8M upfront on a signing bonus, and then have a handshake deal in place for a long term contract after the season. The Sox just set a precedent with this by giving Anderson an extension before he had even reached one full year of service time. So essentially he would make $8M next season (about twice what he would in Japan) and then have an extension in place that would likely pay him at least $15M over the next six years. That gives the team 7 years of control and allows Otani to be a FA again in his age 29 season where he could pull in another large contract. That's a direct violation of the international rules though. I doubt any team does that. You are basically circumventing the CBA. I guess it could happen but I think it would be heavily frowned upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 10:48 AM) That's a direct violation of the international rules though. I doubt any team does that. You are basically circumventing the CBA. I guess it could happen but I think it would be heavily frowned upon. Theo made a living by bending the rules. Do what you have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 12:50 PM) Theo made a living by bending the rules. Do what you have to do. It is also how the TWolves lost 5 years worth of #1 draft picks. It is also worth mentioning that the White Sox ownership group did not want this current commissioner elected and worked very hard to elect someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 12:50 PM) Theo made a living by bending the rules. Do what you have to do. Theo made a living by drafting (and trading) well and out spending everyone else for FA and international FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 01:09 PM) It is also how the TWolves lost 5 years worth of #1 draft picks. It is also worth mentioning that the White Sox ownership group did not want this current commissioner elected and worked very hard to elect someone else. I will be shocked if MLB truly cares. The owners wanted price certainty. The MLB wants best players in game to play there. There won't be many more situations like Otani. They'll say not in spirit of rules and maybe change it in next CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 01:14 PM) I will be shocked if MLB truly cares. The owners wanted price certainty. The MLB wants best players in game to play there. There won't be many more situations like Otani. They'll say not in spirit of rules and maybe change it in next CBA. There are 29 other owners who will want blood, as it means they will have missed out on this guy because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 12:50 PM) Theo made a living by bending the rules. Do what you have to do. How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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