flavum Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:16 PM) Even if four guys get in every year Konerko still wouldn't make it. He isn't anywhere close to a hall of famer. I was exaggerating to make the point. I would have to compile a list of former and current players that will be retiring in the next 10 years that would have to go in before PK, or even Buehrle for that matter. Both guys are top 2% guys, but not top 1%- and that's what the Hall should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Who has a betters show, Konerko or Buehrle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I hate Hall of Fame arguments. To fans, it seems like nobody is ever good enough. Paulie won't get in, but he was good enough IMO. It's hard to get in the Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (The Gooch @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) Who has a betters show, Konerko or Buehrle? Buehrle far and away I think. I don't think he'll get in but he does have an argument. Bill James has said that 60 WAR is kind of the threshold to reach to have a legit shot. Buehrle is sitting at 51.9 fWAR. The 214 wins is a little low for most voters (I understand wins are a pretty garbage stat for pitchers but voters still look at it) and the ERA is a little high. He does have a 117 ERA+ though that does compare favorably to many Hall of Famers and bests quite a few. He also has a few of the key moment type things voters take note of like the perfect game and no hitter, the only guy to face the minimum 27 batters 3 times, once held the batters retired streak record, the remarkable durability and the streak of 10 win, 200 IP seasons. If I were a voter for homerism might cause me to vote for Buehrle. Looking at completely objectively he falls a bit short. Had he not retired early he could have made a run at 300 wins and would have a much better case but alas that did not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:41 PM) Buehrle far and away I think. I don't think he'll get in but he does have an argument. Bill James has said that 60 WAR is kind of the threshold to reach to have a legit shot. Buehrle is sitting at 51.9 fWAR. The 214 wins is a little low for most voters (I understand wins are a pretty garbage stat for pitchers but voters still look at it) and the ERA is a little high. He does have a 117 ERA+ though that does compare favorably to many Hall of Famers and bests quite a few. He also has a few of the key moment type things voters take note of like the perfect game and no hitter, the only guy to face the minimum 27 batters 3 times, once held the batters retired streak record, the remarkable durability and the streak of 10 win, 200 IP seasons. If I were a voter for homerism might cause me to vote for Buehrle. Looking at completely objectively he falls a bit short. Had he not retired early he could have made a run at 300 wins and would have a much better case but alas that did not happen. Buehrle's only chance is counting stats. He would need to pitch until he is 40 and rack those up. Other than that, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 If Paulie had played his whole career in Yankee pinstripes, he may have had a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) If Paulie had played his whole career in Yankee pinstripes, he may have had a chance. Cute, but Jorge Posada didn't get in, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:41 PM) Buehrle far and away I think. I don't think he'll get in but he does have an argument. Bill James has said that 60 WAR is kind of the threshold to reach to have a legit shot. Buehrle is sitting at 51.9 fWAR. The 214 wins is a little low for most voters (I understand wins are a pretty garbage stat for pitchers but voters still look at it) and the ERA is a little high. He does have a 117 ERA+ though that does compare favorably to many Hall of Famers and bests quite a few. He also has a few of the key moment type things voters take note of like the perfect game and no hitter, the only guy to face the minimum 27 batters 3 times, once held the batters retired streak record, the remarkable durability and the streak of 10 win, 200 IP seasons. If I were a voter for homerism might cause me to vote for Buehrle. Looking at completely objectively he falls a bit short. Had he not retired early he could have made a run at 300 wins and would have a much better case but alas that did not happen. Buehrle does have 59.2 bWAR, which I think reflects his career better than fWAR because with his defense and ability to hold runners he was able to consistently outperform his FIP. I don't think he quite deserves it (one of the leaders of the Hall of Very Good though) but he's closer than a lot might think, far closer than Konerko anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) If Paulie had played his whole career in Yankee pinstripes, he may have had a chance. Like Bernie Williams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:26 PM) I hate Hall of Fame arguments. To fans, it seems like nobody is ever good enough. Paulie won't get in, but he was good enough IMO. It's hard to get in the Hall. I'm not trying to be an ass here but I would like to hear an argument on why Paulie should be in the Hall. To me, he's not even close so I'd definitely love to hear people's argument on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) Buehrle does have 59.2 bWAR, which I think reflects his career better than fWAR because with his defense and ability to hold runners he was able to consistently outperform his FIP. I don't think he quite deserves it (one of the leaders of the Hall of Very Good though) but he's closer than a lot might think, far closer than Konerko anyway. I think a 20-win season would have helped his chances a bit. He would also own the record for most starts going 6 or more innings if it wasn't for the Cowboy Joe West. I think what he has going for him outside of numbers is that he was not only the definition of a durable pitcher, but has also thrown a no-no and a perfect game (not to mention the other times he has faced the minimum) while topping out at 90-91. MB is my favorite of all time and I am hoping he gets in like Raines did, toward the end of his eligibility. His 214 wins will look like a lot more by then too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (The Gooch @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:06 PM) I think a 20-win season would have helped his chances a bit. He would also own the record for most starts going 6 or more innings if it wasn't for the Cowboy Joe West. I think what he has going for him outside of numbers is that he was not only the definition of a durable pitcher, but has also thrown a no-no and a perfect game (not to mention the other times he has faced the minimum) while topping out at 90-91. MB is my favorite of all time and I am hoping he gets in like Raines did, toward the end of his eligibility. His 214 wins will look like a lot more by then too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) If Paulie had played his whole career in Yankee pinstripes, he may have had a chance. It was a joke guys, settle down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (The Gooch @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:06 PM) I think a 20-win season would have helped his chances a bit. He would also own the record for most starts going 6 or more innings if it wasn't for the Cowboy Joe West. I think what he has going for him outside of numbers is that he was not only the definition of a durable pitcher, but has also thrown a no-no and a perfect game (not to mention the other times he has faced the minimum) while topping out at 90-91. MB is my favorite of all time and I am hoping he gets in like Raines did, toward the end of his eligibility. His 214 wins will look like a lot more by then too. I don't think Konerko or Beuhrle have the resume to make it into the HOF Thome does and should be first ballot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) Let me explain. Pitchers get much less wins now because of bullpens coming into play earlier. Years from now, pitchers going into the Hall won't have nearly as man wins on average as they do today (and I haven't looked it up but I bet that the same is true between now and and 2007 for example). Therefore, 214 wins will be a more acceptable number to vote into the Hall than it is today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (The Gooch @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:24 PM) Let me explain. Pitchers get much less wins now because of bullpens coming into play earlier. Years from now, pitchers going into the Hall won't have nearly as man wins on average as they do today (and I haven't looked it up but I bet that the same is true between now and and 2007 for example). Therefore, 214 wins will be a more acceptable number to vote into the Hall than it is today. Ok yeah thats what I thought you may have meant. Thanks for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (The Gooch @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:24 PM) Let me explain. Pitchers get much less wins now because of bullpens coming into play earlier. Years from now, pitchers going into the Hall won't have nearly as man wins on average as they do today (and I haven't looked it up but I bet that the same is true between now and and 2007 for example). Therefore, 214 wins will be a more acceptable number to vote into the Hall than it is today. At this point, MB's win numbers are too low and most people simply recognize other, more superior metrics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Chris Sale is a future Hall of Famer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) Chris Sale is a future Hall of Famer. Most likely if he can keep it up and play on some winning clubs. That's all likely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 04:07 PM) Most likely if he can keep it up and play on some winning clubs. That's all likely to happen. Yeah. If he does great in Boston, he should be looking at an extension with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) Konerko had a much better career than Ron Santo. The problem is that Konerko will not have the PR that Santo did. The Cubs organization and Cubs tv+radio stations promoted Santo for the HOF for years. Konerko will never have that same type of thing going for him. The only thing that made me happy about Santo getting into the HOF is that he didn't live to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Life long SOX fan. IMHO Santo was a hall of famer barely. Tons of walks, good power, great defense. Konerko isn't as good. I do agree that the Cubs really pushed him over the top with a media campaign. If there is a White Sox equal to Santo who isn't in the hall, it's Minoso. Outstanding multi-talented player who missed at least 5-6 years Of his prime because of racial quotas used In the 40's and early 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Minoso is one of the best players not in the Hall. It's a shame he's not in. Blocked by segregation, and the second best AL player from 1951-1961. Too bad he didn't get in while alive. He'll get in someday, but too late, like Santo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Paulie should have taken steroids ..... Yesterday was a sad, sad day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 04:48 PM) Minoso is one of the best players not in the Hall. It's a shame he's not in. Blocked by segregation, and the second best AL player from 1951-1961. Too bad he didn't get in while alive. He'll get in someday, but too late, like Santo. In the American League in the 50's, Mantle led in WAR. Minnie was second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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