President Donald Trump: The Thread

[StrangeSox]

Speaking of the dumb, useless, multi-billion dollar wall that US taxpayers and no one else will be paying for, Interior Secretary Zinke says we might even be building the wall in Mexico

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/interior...article/2618743

[bmags]

I'm sure they'll give us a good rate. .25 cents an acre? Worked well before.

[Kyyle23]

I feel like you are closed minded on this. Q: Would you ever ever praise Trump if he did something in your eyes that was good? Or would you bash him? I agree he's very unlikeable and I tend to disagree philosophically with the very rich who run the country, but I also defer to the zillions of Americans who thought he was the best choice. It seems to me you don't want him to do anything deemed as productive. The two party system IMO has become a detriment to America. More and more (I realize it's been this way for decades) one side hates the other and will not cooperate at all for a better America.

 

You think I'm closed minded about this? I'm actually paying close attention to everything that's going on. There isn't one good thing the man has done

 

Go ahead and not pay attention and applaud the man for golfing and making you laugh. Just remember, they will keep taking and taking, and eventually they will get to you. I know what your profession is, and I know what Trumps feelings are about your profession

[illinilaw08]

1.) Obamacare also sucks. It's a disaster as well. We still need a new plan. I'd listen to Bernie on this one.

2.) He's doing what he said he'd do, build a wall. he got elected on that.

3.) Dunno.

4.) He points fingers and the Demos point fingers. That's what they do. Nobody cares about America just their own party.

5.) I wouldn't call him a fraud. He is who he is. A rich, selfish one percenter who was the best option of the two so he won.

6.) I'm sure a lot of deals have gotten done in his life on or around the golf course. It's what rich people do. Golf, bond and deal. I'm sure he'll put in the time it takes to be Pres. so let him golf.

 

1) Why do you think Obamacare sucks? We have a lot more people covered, and health insurance covers significantly more health issues than it did previously. The Trump administration's plan would have covered less people, cost more, and covered less health issues. It was worse that Obamacare. And if you think that Trump and the Republicans are going to listen to Bernie, well...

2) Trump campaigned on Mexico paying to build a wall. He has backtracked on that. Now he's planning to pay for the wall by cutting funding for cancer and other medical research. So that's incorrect.

3) Doesn't need a response.

4) Trump's party controls every branch of the legislature. If he can't pass legislation, then he's failing. Plain and simple.

5) I'm not sure "fraud" is necessarily the right word, but Trump's lies while in the White House are very easy to prove. For a guy who was so concerned about Hillary Clinton being a mean person, you sure look the other way on a staggering number of flat out lies from the President in his first 60+ days in office.

6) Trump is golfing on his own golf courses. That means that, in addition to paying Trump a salary as President, we are also literally paying him his greens fees. Note, Trump also campaigned saying he wouldn't be golfing or vacationing. Both of those are demonstrable lies.

 

Now, with all that being said, why do you think Donald Trump is going to be good for this country?

[illinilaw08]

I feel like you are closed minded on this. Q: Would you ever ever praise Trump if he did something in your eyes that was good? Or would you bash him? I agree he's very unlikeable and I tend to disagree philosophically with the very rich who run the country, but I also defer to the zillions of Americans who thought he was the best choice. It seems to me you don't want him to do anything deemed as productive. The two party system IMO has become a detriment to America. More and more (I realize it's been this way for decades) one side hates the other and will not cooperate at all for a better America.

 

More people voted for Hillary than for Trump. It's not "zillions" of Americans who thought Trump was the best choice. It was a minority of eligible voters.

[caulfield12]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/29/news/jared...deal/index.html

 

Kushners call off yuge NYC development deal with Chinese...Anbang Insurance basically is an arm of the government.

[greg775]

I just don't understand those that say he is doing exactly what he said he would do. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.

I respect the tone of your post. It was quite nice and reasonable discussion. He hasn't been in office very long, has he?

 

I don't mind him golfing. I do mind the golfing at his resorts and setting up a "winter whitehouse" that is a private resort that his family owns, and he is ssupposed to be holding at arms length.

I can buy this argument.

 

You think I'm closed minded about this? I'm actually paying close attention to everything that's going on. There isn't one good thing the man has done

 

Go ahead and not pay attention and applaud the man for golfing and making you laugh. Just remember, they will keep taking and taking, and eventually they will get to you. I know what your profession is, and I know what Trumps feelings are about your profession

I asked you IF he did something great would you praise him or not? I never said he was great, I just don't see the point of not waiting and seeing if he's any good or not.

 

1) Why do you think Obamacare sucks? We have a lot more people covered, and health insurance covers significantly more health issues than it did previously. The Trump administration's plan would have covered less people, cost more, and covered less health issues. It was worse that Obamacare. And if you think that Trump and the Republicans are going to listen to Bernie, well...

2) Trump campaigned on Mexico paying to build a wall. He has backtracked on that. Now he's planning to pay for the wall by cutting funding for cancer and other medical research. So that's incorrect.

3) Doesn't need a response.

4) Trump's party controls every branch of the legislature. If he can't pass legislation, then he's failing. Plain and simple.

5) I'm not sure "fraud" is necessarily the right word, but Trump's lies while in the White House are very easy to prove. For a guy who was so concerned about Hillary Clinton being a mean person, you sure look the other way on a staggering number of flat out lies from the President in his first 60+ days in office.

6) Trump is golfing on his own golf courses. That means that, in addition to paying Trump a salary as President, we are also literally paying him his greens fees. Note, Trump also campaigned saying he wouldn't be golfing or vacationing. Both of those are demonstrable lies.

 

Now, with all that being said, why do you think Donald Trump is going to be good for this country?

Remember, I am an average American. I don't profess to being an expert.

1.) I thought Obamacare ruined the marketplace. All these health ins companies are folding and pharm costs are too high, etc.

2.) Are details on the wall truly available yet?

4.) It's kind of early to be failing IMO.

5.) My gut tells me Trump is not a very good person as well.

6.) If Trump campaigned on never taking a vacation, he should be called on this lie whenever he goes golfing.

7.) I don't think Trump will be good for the country, but deep down as an American I am/was hoping he'd be like Reagan. Strike a chord and be the answer to our problems out of him being an outsider moving in.

At any rate, I see no need to blast him every day. I trust those in the know to get the impeachment proceedings going if those are needed.

 

More people voted for Hillary than for Trump. It's not "zillions" of Americans who thought Trump was the best choice. It was a minority of eligible voters.

I respect your posts. I don't mean to offend you or others with mine. Many (most) of you are much smarter about politics than I am. I like politics, but it's like my following of the White Sox. Every year I think I'll follow them in Spring Training and do not. Then I pick it up as the season starts. In politics, I follow it heavily during election season then much less the first half of a person's presidency. I'm no big Trump fan. I am a hopeful American ... still. Again, I trust those with power to impeach him if it's deemed appropriate and/or deemed that he has committed an impeachable offense.

 

Remember when you blast me ... I do concede you all are much smarter about politics than me. But why can't I be hopeful for the USA and Trump? Why does that make me bad? Yes I want Trump to succeed.

[Kyyle23]

I asked you IF he did something great would you praise him or not? I never said he was great, I just don't see the point of not waiting and seeing if he's any good or not.

 

Pretty sure that is a bridge I will never have to cross

 

But hey Greg, let's all sit back and watch him destroy eduction and the environment and international relations so he can make 10 billion off Rosneft

[StrangeSox]

I think my favorite thing of the Trump Era so far is that Teen Vogue has become the journalistic vanguard pushing back against Trump's bulls***. Teen Vogue! They're even being directly linked by the ACLU these days.

[illinilaw08]

I respect your posts. I don't mean to offend you or others with mine. Many (most) of you are much smarter about politics than I am. I like politics, but it's like my following of the White Sox. Every year I think I'll follow them in Spring Training and do not. Then I pick it up as the season starts. In politics, I follow it heavily during election season then much less the first half of a person's presidency. I'm no big Trump fan. I am a hopeful American ... still. Again, I trust those with power to impeach him if it's deemed appropriate and/or deemed that he has committed an impeachable offense.

 

Remember when you blast me ... I do concede you all are much smarter about politics than me. But why can't I be hopeful for the USA and Trump? Why does that make me bad? Yes I want Trump to succeed.

 

Greg, see the below link re: how Trump is proposing to pay for the Mexico wall.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf...order_wall.html

 

On the other stuff, if people are hopeful about Trump, I want to know policy reasons why they are hopeful. From my standpoint, in the first 60 days, he has pushed unnecessary immigration bans, has pursued deportation policies that actually make communities less safe, pushed a health care bill that would have increased health care costs, decreased coverage, and reduced the quality of health care, and he has pursued policies that will be catastrophic for the environment, including the air we breathe and the water we drink.

 

If it's for reasons other than policy, why are they hopeful? The President has shown an unprecedented willingness to lie to the American people. When called on those lies, he says that he was merely quoting someone else. Don't blame HIM if those people were wrong. Or his administration hand waves it away by saying he was joking. Not only is that bad optics, but the President's words have a significant impact on policy, on the economy, on any number of things.

 

So I think this needs to be turned around. If you are hopeful about Trump, why are you hopeful? What things has he done that make you think he's putting average Americans in a position to succeed?

[RockRaines]

Greg is a great example of being influenced by propaganda instead of actually knowing the details. His value in this thread is more than his opinion, its seeing how a lot of people are influenced. Pointing out that Obamacare "ruined healthcare" is a classic example. HC companies are enjoying all time highs for profits and they are sliding up the fortune 100 with ease. You dont see that on the sites that are opposed to universal healthcare because they are paid to ignore that. Pharma and HC companies are killing it financially.

[greg775]

Greg, see the below link re: how Trump is proposing to pay for the Mexico wall.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf...order_wall.html

 

On the other stuff, if people are hopeful about Trump, I want to know policy reasons why they are hopeful. From my standpoint, in the first 60 days, he has pushed unnecessary immigration bans, has pursued deportation policies that actually make communities less safe, pushed a health care bill that would have increased health care costs, decreased coverage, and reduced the quality of health care, and he has pursued policies that will be catastrophic for the environment, including the air we breathe and the water we drink.

 

If it's for reasons other than policy, why are they hopeful? The President has shown an unprecedented willingness to lie to the American people. When called on those lies, he says that he was merely quoting someone else. Don't blame HIM if those people were wrong. Or his administration hand waves it away by saying he was joking. Not only is that bad optics, but the President's words have a significant impact on policy, on the economy, on any number of things.

 

So I think this needs to be turned around. If you are hopeful about Trump, why are you hopeful? What things has he done that make you think he's putting average Americans in a position to succeed?

I said I was hopeful cause in regards to a Reagan comparison. I was hoping an outsider would be beloved and be able to get things done. He seemed to be talking the right thing ... jobs, jobs, jobs.

With all due respect, you made a good case for Obamacare but doesn't the general public deem it horrible? The good thing about it is all people with past conditions are safe on there. I like that.

[StrangeSox]

Remember when you blast me ... I do concede you all are much smarter about politics than me. But why can't I be hopeful for the USA and Trump? Why does that make me bad? Yes I want Trump to succeed.

 

This has been explained before, but I'll try one more time:

 

A lot of us believe that if Trump is successful in implementing his agenda, a whole lot of people will suffer unnecessarily and progressive in many areas in our country will be set back years if not decades or even irreparably in the case of global warming.

 

I'm hopeful that Trump fails miserably and quickly so that the USA may succeed instead. I think Trump's agenda is directly at odds with a "successful" US, even if he and his supporters don't.

[StrangeSox]

I said I was hopeful cause in regards to a Reagan comparison. I was hoping an outsider would be beloved and be able to get things done. He seemed to be talking the right thing ... jobs, jobs, jobs.

With all due respect, you made a good case for Obamacare but doesn't the general public deem it horrible? The good thing about it is all people with past conditions are safe on there. I like that.

 

Reagan was governor of our most economically productive state and had been active in politics for close to two decades prior to becoming President.

 

The general public didn't like "Obamacare" but liked all of its constituent parts until recently. More recently, support for the ACA has shot to an all-time high and several Republican Medicaid hold-out states are taking measures to expand it, which will help hundreds of thousands if not millions more.

[LittleHurt05]

Greg is a great example of being influenced by propaganda instead of actually knowing the details. His value in this thread is more than his opinion, its seeing how a lot of people are influenced. Pointing out that Obamacare "ruined healthcare" is a classic example. HC companies are enjoying all time highs for profits and they are sliding up the fortune 100 with ease. You dont see that on the sites that are opposed to universal healthcare because they are paid to ignore that. Pharma and HC companies are killing it financially.

 

Health care companies getting richer is proof that Obama care "ruined healthcare". Smaller companies that couldn't keep up with all of the ridiculous regulations had to shut down, limiting competition for the larger companies. Now the larger companies can do what they want and limit offerings as they so please. They only offer in the locations where they most profit. If you aren't part of a large group they like, then they limit your access to the majority of their doctors and hospitals, since you have no other companies to choose from. If you are not part of a large corporate group, you are at the mercy of the big health insurance companies, if they wish to help you. But at least they are profiting. I wonder where the majority of their political donations went.

[StrangeSox]

Health care companies getting richer is proof that Obama care "ruined healthcare". Smaller companies that couldn't keep up with all of the ridiculous regulations had to shut down, limiting competition for the larger companies. Now the larger companies can do what they want and limit offerings as they so please. They only offer in the locations where they most profit. If you aren't part of a large group they like, then they limit your access to the majority of their doctors and hospitals, since you have no other companies to choose from. If you are not part of a large corporate group, you are at the mercy of the big health insurance companies, if they wish to help you. But at least they are profiting. I wonder where the majority of their political donations went.

That's basically what's going to happen when you try the market-based approach of the ACA, and it's why the ACA has been attacked as "a handout to insurance companies" from the left since the start.

 

 

 

In other Trump news, President Trump revokes Obama-era LGBTQ protections, lets federal contractors discriminate

[Iwritecode]

6.) If Trump campaigned on never taking a vacation, he should be called on this lie whenever he goes golfing.

 

He did.

 

Link

 

 

The problem is that people like you keep giving him a pass like it's ok.

 

The guy likes to golf. So do millions of Americans. Let him enjoy his four years. He won't be re-elected.

 

At this time, I don't see any problem with him golfing so much. That's all I'm saying. Golf is fun (for a lot of people; I'd rather bowl). As far as I'm concerned he can golf golf golf.

 

6.) I'm sure a lot of deals have gotten done in his life on or around the golf course. It's what rich people do. Golf, bond and deal. I'm sure he'll put in the time it takes to be Pres. so let him golf.

 

 

 

[BigSqwert]

He did.

 

Link

 

 

The problem is that people like you keep giving him a pass like it's ok.

 

Greg always has an excuse for not being too hard on Trump and giving him the benefit of the doubt, even though Trump has literally done nothing positive or beneficial for the majority of Americans. In fact, most experts agree that this has been one of the most inept White Houses in history so far.

 

Contrast that to his attitude towards Clinton during the campaign, where he would lambast her for not smiling enough or whatever his pet peeve of the day was.

[StrangeSox]

Sahil Kapur ✔ @sahilkapur

CBS poll: 47% of Americans (& 74% of Rs) say it's likely Trump's offices were wiretapped/surveilled in 2016.

 

There's no evidence for this.

7:10 AM - 29 Mar 2017

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/847058282078461952

[illinilaw08]

Health care companies getting richer is proof that Obama care "ruined healthcare". Smaller companies that couldn't keep up with all of the ridiculous regulations had to shut down, limiting competition for the larger companies. Now the larger companies can do what they want and limit offerings as they so please. They only offer in the locations where they most profit. If you aren't part of a large group they like, then they limit your access to the majority of their doctors and hospitals, since you have no other companies to choose from. If you are not part of a large corporate group, you are at the mercy of the big health insurance companies, if they wish to help you. But at least they are profiting. I wonder where the majority of their political donations went.

 

There are certainly issues with the ACA, and some of those issues are systematic. Our health care system has, for decades, been based around the idea that employers provide coverage. You have a bigger pool, so you can get lower rates, and companies get tax incentives to provide health care as a benefit.

 

The system has never been good for people who get their insurance outside of their employer. Cheap insurance - pre-ACA when I wasn't covered by an employer - had high deductibles, and were literally catastrophe policies. No doctor co-pays, the policy was literally there if I broke my leg.

 

The ACA helps people lower on the income spectrum obtain care. The ACA helps people with pre-existing conditions get healthcare. The ACA gets a lot right, but because it isn't Medicare for all, it's still subject to market forces. That means that policies for those on the exchanges are more expensive. Those policies cover more, but that isn't a help to somebody who is healthy and shelling out several hundred $$ per month for healthcare.

 

There are fixes that could be made to the ACA to deal with the issues you are describing and ALSO maintain all the stuff people like about the ACA. But those fixes require more government investment. And that isn't going to happen any time soon. Medicare for all would fix a lot of the issues in the system, but that would require tax increases, and that isn't going to get traction with the Republicans in control.

 

Ends rant...

[illinilaw08]

The handling of this is a lot like student loans. I really think a lot of the virtue signalers who say "everyone should have the right go to college" and "everyone should have healthcare" should take a basic economics course before making blanket statements like that. I wish everyone could have healthcare and education too but is it economically feasible? When you make guaranteed students loans available the Universities can charge whatever they want. When you force people to get insurance and increase premiums far past the wage growth every year they can keep raising premiums and keep rising profits even when people start to reject ACA. It's just weird seeing regular people support policies that enrich drug and insurance companies and put the burden on small companies and taxpayers.

 

Both of these are economically viable everywhere else in the world. But it costs more. People will have to take on greater tax burdens, but that tax burden leads to greater societal benefit.

 

On "everyone should have healthcare," the economic argument in favor of that is that everyone is entitled to go to a hospital and get care. But people who don't have insurance, don't pay their bills, the hospital gets stiffed, and this gets passed down in the form of higher costs to the consumer.

 

It's weird to see people think that the ACA created rising premiums when that is demonstrably false.

[Kyyle23]

What do you guys need to hear from greg? You all disagree with him and always have. What's there to iron out? He's not going to start embracing the groupthink around here. Has Trump had a strong presidency so far? No. Has greg made a cogent article in defending Trump? No. Does that really call for all of you gangbanging him? You all know he's not going to change his opinion just like you aren't. Respect the fact that people have different opinions.

 

It's amazing, the same people who militantly opposed Trump because he was a bully are now doing the bullying anyone who tries to support him.

 

My problem is he excuses Trump for virtually everything he ridiculed and railed against Hillary for, then comes into the thread, tells everyone he barely pays attention and yet still can tell us that Trump makes him laugh and Golfing is fine because why not.

 

There is a big disconnect there. It is very bothersome to me that it's not a big deal to certain people when people's lives are being affected adversely with pretty much every policy that Trump is trying to enforce. Just like you are seeing stories now of people's families getting pulled apart by ICE and these people voted for Trump and honestly say "well I didn't think he would really do that"

 

I don't think it is a great thing that Trump is trying to enforce the policies that his campaign ran on. None of it makes me comfortable, none of it is "good". Virtually all of it is to financially benefit Trump and the rich people he associates with, and that usually ends up with people like me, and like Greg, holding the bag at the end

 

[StrangeSox]

What do you imagine are the democratic policies Trump has been pushing, and it what ways was AHCA more in line with Democratic policy goals?

[RockRaines]

This is flawed in a few different ways.

 

Unless you're saying these all time highs are inflation adjusted highs it's just not as cut and dried as you make it seem. Healthcare has been performing so well because it's an inelastic industry in a post recession inflationary period. The slow recovery period and the Fed's Bernanke era policy devaluing money were going to make HC look great compared to other industries regardless of whether ACA was signed into law.

 

Insurance companies were obviously the direct beneficiaries of the ACA given the individual mandate. Americans are literally taxed if they do not have health insurance. Insurance companies got a great deal with ACA. Everyone knew it then, everyone knows it now. That's not a supporting argument for the ACA. I invested in Aetna after ACA was put in place and saw the results. If you are proponent of the ACA it should be because you think it would help people not because it helped insurance companies in a torqued economy.

Lots of fluff in there not to my point, but yes, HC companies are experiencing tremendous growth and profitability. They are also in great control of why premiums increase and the pharma companies are in control of why drugs cost as much as they do. Its a crooked industry with hands deep in the pockets of every politician. They are a huge reason why the ACA has and is continuing to be changed not for the better of the people, but of the industry. But saying ACA is failing and is killing the HC industry is false. And "everyone" doesnt know it, as you can see by the current president's campaign rallies and posts in this thread.

[bigruss]

I believe just stating UHC isn't viable for the US and stating "economics" after that is pretty weak.