President Donald Trump: The Thread

[bmags]

Especially since we know Gary Hart was negotiating nuclear arms with the Soviets in the 80's as a Presidential candidate, and nothing came of it.

 

But Russia helped by performing a cyber attack on an american political party and some aim around voter registrations, not helping with a foreign policy achievement.

 

In general, I think it's a pretty good norm to not openly accept foreign attacks on your domestic political opponents.

[Reddy]

I doubt anything will come of it, but at least we finally have confirmation of Trump-Russia collusion.

 

Back to the issues! #SavetheACA #MonumentsForAll

[southsider2k5]

But Russia helped by performing a cyber attack on an american political party and some aim around voter registrations, not helping with a foreign policy achievement.

 

In general, I think it's a pretty good norm to not openly accept foreign attacks on your domestic political opponents.

 

Somehow I pretty well doubt that this was the first time, nor the last.

[bmags]

Somehow I pretty well doubt that this was the first time, nor the last.

 

Ok. But just because corruption may sometimes go uncaught doesn't mean we let a congressman go who has a million dollars in his freezer.

 

Especially when this specific act has potential to continuously undermine the legitimacy of our elections.

 

Trump could have legitimately owned the Russian issue by doing something responsible and actually pursuing action against Russia for the attacks on US elections. Other world leaders in similar spots have created legitimacy in heel turning against what was supposedly helping them. But Trump team didn't do that, they've lied about it repeatedly and sometimes illegally, they've denied it, and they fired the head of the investigation into it as well as floated out firing the independent council.

[bmags]

For instance, imagine if instead of Bobby Kennedy going after Organized Crime in the 60s, they openly embraced them and started attacking verbally all criticism and efforts to reign them in.

 

How would history look instead? Kennedy certainly benefited from illegal influence which deserved to be punished had they proven it. But just because it happened then doesn't mean if it happened again it should be accepted.

[southsider2k5]

Ok. But just because corruption may sometimes go uncaught doesn't mean we let a congressman go who has a million dollars in his freezer.

 

Especially when this specific act has potential to continuously undermine the legitimacy of our elections.

 

Trump could have legitimately owned the Russian issue by doing something responsible and actually pursuing action against Russia for the attacks on US elections. Other world leaders in similar spots have created legitimacy in heel turning against what was supposedly helping them. But Trump team didn't do that, they've lied about it repeatedly and sometimes illegally, they've denied it, and they fired the head of the investigation into it as well as floated out firing the independent council.

 

Again, after hearing the lefts positions on places like NK and Cuba, it amazes me to see them take the exact opposite tact with Russia, and publicly pushing us towards war with the absolute most dangerous country on earth.

[illinilaw08]

Again, after hearing the lefts positions on places like NK and Cuba, it amazes me to see them take the exact opposite tact with Russia, and publicly pushing us towards war with the absolute most dangerous country on earth.

 

I too remember when NK and Cuba hacked our elections and the left looked the other away.

 

Also, please show your work as to how the left is "publicly pushing us towards war" with Russia.

 

I mean, I'm honestly all for improving relations with Russia. But it seems to me that the extent to which the sitting President and/or his campaign collaborated with Russian efforts to influence the Presidential election is a pretty important thing to investigate!

[illinilaw08]

I've seen a lot of comments about how terrible this is, but is there an actual criminal statute that's cited somewhere? Is there something we're basing the criminal aspect on?

 

Jenks, see the below article re: the criminal statute that Don Jr. might have violated.

 

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/1595059...k-times-illegal

[Dick Allen]

Somehow I pretty well doubt that this was the first time, nor the last.

Do you think what ultimately got Blago locked up is unusual activity for most politicians?

 

If you speed to work every morning, and one day a cop stops you and starts writing you a ticket, you aren't going to tell him you have been speeding to work for years without ever being stopped so please stop writing this ticket.

[bmags]

Again, after hearing the lefts positions on places like NK and Cuba, it amazes me to see them take the exact opposite tact with Russia, and publicly pushing us towards war with the absolute most dangerous country on earth.

 

Your position is that your sense of right/wrong is centered on the actions of some unnamed political commentors you disagree with?

[Jenksismyhero]

Ok. But just because corruption may sometimes go uncaught doesn't mean we let a congressman go who has a million dollars in his freezer.

 

Especially when this specific act has potential to continuously undermine the legitimacy of our elections.

 

Trump could have legitimately owned the Russian issue by doing something responsible and actually pursuing action against Russia for the attacks on US elections. Other world leaders in similar spots have created legitimacy in heel turning against what was supposedly helping them. But Trump team didn't do that, they've lied about it repeatedly and sometimes illegally, they've denied it, and they fired the head of the investigation into it as well as floated out firing the independent council.

 

While I agree with you 100%, why didn't Obama do anything? He had 6+ months. While I'm sure he did at some point, I don't remember him making a public statement condemning the DNC hack.

[Jenksismyhero]

Jenks, see the below article re: the criminal statute that Don Jr. might have violated.

 

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/1595059...k-times-illegal

 

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

[Reddy]

amazing to watch SS2k5 starting to drink the Trump koolaid on Russia.

 

Amazing and sad.

[Jenksismyhero]

Do you think what ultimately got Blago locked up is unusual activity for most politicians?

 

If you speed to work every morning, and one day a cop stops you and starts writing you a ticket, you aren't going to tell him you have been speeding to work for years without ever being stopped so please stop writing this ticket.

 

No, but if you're one car in a line of 10 going 80, you're going to ask the cop why he stopped you and not one of the others.

 

 

[illinilaw08]

While I agree with you 100%, why didn't Obama do anything? He had 6+ months. While I'm sure he did at some point, I don't remember him making a public statement condemning the DNC hack.

 

Obama, I think, was in a kind of tough spot. Any public condemnation of the hack on the DNC could have provided the impression that Obama was attempting to help Clinton in the election. It seems like that's the reason that Obama handled the initial issue with kid gloves, and I can absolutely see the logic behind that decision.

[Reddy]

While I agree with you 100%, why didn't Obama do anything? He had 6+ months. While I'm sure he did at some point, I don't remember him making a public statement condemning the DNC hack.

He done f***ed up, thinking Clinton would win.

 

He didn't want to be in the same position Comey was - being seen to be impacting an election, but it was a pretty spineless response. Unfortunately, that's pretty in keeping with his personality in general. It's the same reason we didn't get s*** done from 08-10. He cared too much what people thought of him.

[southsider2k5]

I too remember when NK and Cuba hacked our elections and the left looked the other away.

 

Also, please show your work as to how the left is "publicly pushing us towards war" with Russia.

 

I mean, I'm honestly all for improving relations with Russia. But it seems to me that the extent to which the sitting President and/or his campaign collaborated with Russian efforts to influence the Presidential election is a pretty important thing to investigate!

 

We keep getting told that we can't do anything about these other countries because of how dangerous they are, and the risk of war and millions of dead people. But when it comes to a country that has actually invaded neighbors, and has the second biggest nuclear arms set in the world, they have no problem antagonizing them for nothing more than political points. The risk here is so huge, infinitely bigger than taking action on NK. They are backing themselves into a corner where the only answer is going to be war with Russia, but the left doesn't care because Trump.

[Reddy]

We keep getting told that we can't do anything about these other countries because of how dangerous they are, and the risk of war and millions of dead people. But when it comes to a country that has actually invaded neighbors, and has the second biggest nuclear arms set in the world, they have no problem antagonizing them for nothing more than political points. The risk here is so huge, infinitely bigger than taking action on NK. They are backing themselves into a corner where the only answer is going to be war with Russia, but the left doesn't care because Trump.

Russia needs us. It needs our goods and our money.

 

Because of their isolation, Cuba and NK don't rely on the US, and as such, have much less to lose. That makes them more dangerous.

 

This is basic man. Come on.

 

(ETA: Cuba is not dangerous. Just included it because history.)

Edited July 11, 2017 by Reddy

[southsider2k5]

Russia needs us. It needs our goods and our money.

 

Because of their isolation, Cuba and NK don't rely on the US, and as such, have much less to lose. That makes them more dangerous.

 

This is basic man. Come on.

 

No one is more dangerous than Russia. I would have thought that was obvious, but hey, what do I know. Its not like Russia just invaded and conquered a neighbor or anything, right?

[Reddy]

No one is more dangerous than Russia. I would have thought that was obvious, but hey, what do I know. Its not like Russia just invaded and conquered a neighbor or anything, right?

 

NK is absolutely more dangerous than Russia.

 

Russia has something to lose, and war with the US or the West is NOT in its best interest. But whatever you need to say to make yourself feel right.

[southsider2k5]

NK is absolutely more dangerous than Russia.

 

Russia has something to lose, and war with the US or the West is NOT in its best interest. But whatever you need to say to make yourself feel right.

 

This is so naive. This isn't a left or right thing. This is war with the 2nd biggest superpower on the planet. As usual, there isn't getting anything past the rhetoric. I will exit now and let the circle jerk continue.

[Reddy]

This is so naive. This isn't a left or right thing. This is war with the 2nd biggest superpower on the planet. As usual, there isn't getting anything past the rhetoric. I will exit now and let the circle jerk continue.

Who's at war with the 2nd biggest superpower on the planet???

 

Can you name ONE act of Putin's that was not pragmatic? He's not unhinged. He's not a livewire. You can dismiss my point all you want, but you haven't given evidence to support your position. Not one bit.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Reddy

[Jenksismyhero]

Obama, I think, was in a kind of tough spot. Any public condemnation of the hack on the DNC could have provided the impression that Obama was attempting to help Clinton in the election. It seems like that's the reason that Obama handled the initial issue with kid gloves, and I can absolutely see the logic behind that decision.

 

Eh, that's pretty weak. Obama already WAS helping Clinton. He was speaking on her behalf and endorsing her.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

This is so naive. This isn't a left or right thing. This is war with the 2nd biggest superpower on the planet. As usual, there isn't getting anything past the rhetoric. I will exit now and let the circle jerk continue.

 

I have a bigger problem with Trump people continuing to flat out lie than I do with them meeting with someone who has dirt on another candidate. You know Clinton was doing the same s*** trying to find dirt on Trump. As you said, this stuff happens and will happen in the future.

[StrangeSox]

Again, after hearing the lefts positions on places like NK and Cuba, it amazes me to see them take the exact opposite tact with Russia, and publicly pushing us towards war with the absolute most dangerous country on earth.

 

Why this attempt at "Democrats are hypocrites and actually the bad ones here" is completely incoherent was already explained to you.

 

There is no previous equivalence to the situation we're in right now, and positions towards countries' internal domestic issues is not related to positions on foreign governments interfering in our domestic issues up to and including tampering with our voter rolls.