President Donald Trump: The Thread

[Dick Allen]

He also said the purpose of the meeting was to talk about US-Russian adoption policy. All these emails are about getting dirt on Hillary Clinton.

 

 

Remember when political people were at least GOOD at lying?

And he thought it was important enough to get Manafort and Jared involved. So obviously he thought it would or could be something yuge.

 

Nothing will happen to him obviously. One thing Trump didn't lie about was he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and not lose votes. This isn't even close to that. If it were Hillary and Chelsea instead of Sr. and Jr. it would be a lot different. Chris Christie would be calling in from his private beach saying lock her up. Trump would be tweeting up a storm.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

This is ridiculous.

 

Is there any illegal action which is not actually the fault of the democrats?

 

Your post contains a lot of certainty in your own hypothetical. There was just a similar approach to trying to hack the French election, to which they were ALSO open about how the hack was performed by a foreign power.

 

And the report which detailed the vulnerabilities was leaked from an NSA contractor who is now in custody, not formally presented to the American public to save face.

 

It doesn't stand up.

 

This is the equivelant of sticking your fingers in your ears going neener neener.

 

You bring up many good points about the hell that partisanship is wreaking on our government and personal relationships. But I can't imagine a worse aspect of partisanship than basing your moral center exclusively on what the other side has done, especially when "other side" can be defined as some internet rando.

 

He tried to tsk tsk the Democrats criticizing Trump bragging about "grabbing them by the p****" because it was hypocritical because Democrats want government out of the bedroom. Every. Single. Scenario. breaks down to "actually the Democrats are bad"

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Come on Jenks, you know there's a difference between Obama campaigning for Clinton, and Obama revealing that there is evidence that (a) Russia hacked the DNC; and (b) the Trump campaign might have collaborated with Russia in doing so.

 

The 2nd part, yes, but he still could have come out strong against Russia for the hacks once the intelligence community concluded that the Russians didn't. He could have imposed additional sanctions. He did nothing.

 

I think both sides are wrong here. Trump should have gone after Putin after he was sworn in and Obama should have done so when he was still President. Both failed miserably.

[StrangeSox]

More Simpsons becoming reality

 

https://twitter.com/SimpsonsMashups/status/...src=twsrc%5Etfw

[Quin]

He tried to tsk tsk the Democrats criticizing Trump bragging about "grabbing them by the p****" because it was hypocritical because Democrats want government out of the bedroom. Every. Single. Scenario. breaks down to "actually the Democrats are bad"

 

The Democrats are mainly guilty of not lowering themselves to the GOP''s level of villainous behavior.

[CrimsonWeltall]

He could have imposed additional sanctions. He did nothing.

 

There were additional sanctions added, as well as kicking a lot of Russians out of the US.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/29/politics/rus...ouse/index.html

[StrangeSox]

The 2nd part, yes, but he still could have come out strong against Russia for the hacks once the intelligence community concluded that the Russians didn't. He could have imposed additional sanctions. He did nothing.

 

I think both sides are wrong here. Trump should have gone after Putin after he was sworn in and Obama should have done so when he was still President. Both failed miserably.

 

I think this is correct, but I think the case against Obama looks much stronger in hindsight than it did at the time. It looked like Hillary was going to cruise to victory and that this could all have been dealt with after the election at a time it would be less politicized.

[Quin]

Also Mitch.

[southsider2k5]

I think this is correct, but I think the case against Obama looks much stronger in hindsight than it did at the time. It looked like Hillary was going to cruise to victory and that this could all have been dealt with after the election at a time it would be less politicized.

 

The onus changed 100% when Hillary lost. It wouldn't have been politicized if she had won, and it wasn't before because they thought she would win.

[pettie4sox]

The onus changed 100% when Hillary lost. It wouldn't have been politicized if she had won, and it wasn't before because they thought she would win.

 

Yeah I think the situation was extremely delicate. I could only imagine the fallout from Obama saying Russia is meddling with our elections in favor or Trump would have played. The epitome of a rock and a hard place for politicians.

[illinilaw08]

The onus changed 100% when Hillary lost. It wouldn't have been politicized if she had won, and it wasn't before because they thought she would win.

 

You keep referring to this investigation of the Trump campaign's collusion with Russia in hacking the election as "politicized." This is a criminal investigation into the extent to which the Trump campaign colluded with Russia in the 2016 election, and the extent to which Trump obstructed justice when he asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn, and then subsequently fired Comey. Previously, Flynn had to resign after failing to disclose contacts with Russians. Today we got e-mails released that prove Donald Trump Jr. (and Kushner and Manafort) met with people who claimed to be Russian operatives in an attempt to receive negative information in Russia's possession that portrayed Hillary Clinton in a negative light - something that is absolutely illegal. What will it take for you to stop calling this "politicized" and start calling it what it is?

[Reddy]

You keep referring to this investigation of the Trump campaign's collusion with Russia in hacking the election as "politicized." This is a criminal investigation into the extent to which the Trump campaign colluded with Russia in the 2016 election, and the extent to which Trump obstructed justice when he asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn, and then subsequently fired Comey. Previously, Flynn had to resign after failing to disclose contacts with Russians. Today we got e-mails released that prove Donald Trump Jr. (and Kushner and Manafort) met with people who claimed to be Russian operatives in an attempt to receive negative information in Russia's possession that portrayed Hillary Clinton in a negative light - something that is absolutely illegal. What will it take for you to stop calling this "politicized" and start calling it what it is?

 

When it's happening to a Democrat instead of a Republican.

 

He rails against partisanship while every position he takes is born from intense partisanship itself. Love it.

 

[southsider2k5]

You keep referring to this investigation of the Trump campaign's collusion with Russia in hacking the election as "politicized." This is a criminal investigation into the extent to which the Trump campaign colluded with Russia in the 2016 election, and the extent to which Trump obstructed justice when he asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn, and then subsequently fired Comey. Previously, Flynn had to resign after failing to disclose contacts with Russians. Today we got e-mails released that prove Donald Trump Jr. (and Kushner and Manafort) met with people who claimed to be Russian operatives in an attempt to receive negative information in Russia's possession that portrayed Hillary Clinton in a negative light - something that is absolutely illegal. What will it take for you to stop calling this "politicized" and start calling it what it is?

 

That is a quality reframing, I will admit that.

 

What it doesn't identify is that this is what is somehow being made public, not what is happening at the intelligence level. Just because we are now learning of it, doesn't mean they are. In fact the whole idea that more and more top secret intelligence is being leaked only reinforces the political nature of this now. So we are back to a political operation that denigrates our entire government stability and standing while risking war with our most dangerous enemy, all in an attempt to delegitimize someone who needs absolutely no help delegitimatizing himself in front of the entire world.

[Reddy]

That is a quality reframing, I will admit that.

 

What it doesn't identify is that this is what is somehow being made public, not what is happening at the intelligence level. Just because we are now learning of it, doesn't mean they are. In fact the whole idea that more and more top secret intelligence is being leaked only reinforces the political nature of this now. So we are back to a political operation that denigrates our entire government stability and standing while risking war with our most dangerous enemy, all in an attempt to delegitimize someone who needs absolutely no help delegitimatizing himself in front of the entire world.

Don Jr tweeted it! Sweet jesus.

[Reddy]

AND the sources of the leak about these emails came from WITHIN the White House! How on EARTH is this a partisan thing??

[Reddy]

I'm sure, according to SS, Benghazi was in no way political either.

 

I'm sure Bill's impeachment was in no way political.

 

And frankly, who the f*** cares?? Are you seriously suggesting Dems NOT use this stuff for political gain? You'd support the GOP doing it if the situation were reversed, I have no doubt. Your double standard is honestly baffling.

[Dick Allen]

That is a quality reframing, I will admit that.

 

What it doesn't identify is that this is what is somehow being made public, not what is happening at the intelligence level. Just because we are now learning of it, doesn't mean they are. In fact the whole idea that more and more top secret intelligence is being leaked only reinforces the political nature of this now. So we are back to a political operation that denigrates our entire government stability and standing while risking war with our most dangerous enemy, all in an attempt to delegitimize someone who needs absolutely no help delegitimatizing himself in front of the entire world.

 

Yet when it was Hillary's and her staffs' emails that were hacked, and Wikileaks made public, this holier than thou attitude didn't persist. In fact, most of the right WELCOMED AND APPLAUDED IT. They just have a problem when they are the ones who have private conversations leaked. And we have these because Jr. put them all on twitter.

 

Dems have tried the go high technique. Unfortunately all that is left is to out Trump Trump. And the right can't complain since they do absolutely nothing about Trump when he is sexist or classless, or just plain dumb except mention Hillary or Obama and look the other way. When they mention the troubles with leaks, then have a problem with Hillary's leaks.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Reddy]

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: A rebellion is always legal in the first person, such as "our rebellion." It is only in the third person - "their rebellion" - that it becomes illegal

 

If SS2K had been Mr. Franklin, it may have been: An investigation is always justified in the first person, such as "our investigation." It is only in the third person - "their investigation" - that it becomes unjust.

[illinilaw08]

That is a quality reframing, I will admit that.

 

What it doesn't identify is that this is what is somehow being made public, not what is happening at the intelligence level. Just because we are now learning of it, doesn't mean they are. In fact the whole idea that more and more top secret intelligence is being leaked only reinforces the political nature of this now. So we are back to a political operation that denigrates our entire government stability and standing while risking war with our most dangerous enemy, all in an attempt to delegitimize someone who needs absolutely no help delegitimatizing himself in front of the entire world.

 

What exactly did I reframe? A Special Prosecutor has been appointed. Flynn resigned because of Russian contacts. Don Jr.'s e-mails show that, at a minimum, he, Kushner and Manafort were willing to accept dirt on Hillary Clinton from the Russians. All of that is true and factual.

 

What I continue to miss in your posts is how this investigation puts us at risk of war with Russia. You keep saying that as if it's fact, but without any analysis of why that's true.

[StrangeSox]

One thing that's not really being discussed right now is that Russia would obviously have had huge leverage over the whole Trump clan. They would have known about all of these communications they keep lying about and not disclosing. They're compromised top to bottom.

[Dick Allen]

One thing that's not really being discussed right now is that Russia would obviously have had huge leverage over the whole Trump clan. They would have known about all of these communications they keep lying about and not disclosing. They're compromised top to bottom.

I think they were already compromised. Trump won't release his taxes. As he has said many times when people or organizations won't release information, "There must be something wrong."

[Jenksismyhero]

There were additional sanctions added, as well as kicking a lot of Russians out of the US.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/29/politics/rus...ouse/index.html

 

That says he sanctioned some individuals and Russian intelligence entities and kicked diplomats out. He didn't sanction Putin or Russia itself with economic sanctions.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Those responses were also after the election.

[southsider2k5]

I'm sure, according to SS, Benghazi was in no way political either.

 

I'm sure Bill's impeachment was in no way political.

 

And frankly, who the f*** cares?? Are you seriously suggesting Dems NOT use this stuff for political gain? You'd support the GOP doing it if the situation were reversed, I have no doubt. Your double standard is honestly baffling.

 

Uh, no. It was all political.

[southsider2k5]

Yet when it was Hillary's and her staffs' emails that were hacked, and Wikileaks made public, this holier than thou attitude didn't persist. In fact, most of the right WELCOMED AND APPLAUDED IT. They just have a problem when they are the ones who have private conversations leaked. And we have these because Jr. put them all on twitter.

 

Dems have tried the go high technique. Unfortunately all that is left is to out Trump Trump. And the right can't complain since they do absolutely nothing about Trump when he is sexist or classless, or just plain dumb except mention Hillary or Obama and look the other way. When they mention the troubles with leaks, then have a problem with Hillary's leaks.

 

Actually I was impressed by how much the Dem's turned on Wikileaks when this happened, after fully embracing them when it happened to Bush. I was mostly amazed at how quickly the reformed into a GOP partisian machine.