President Donald Trump: The Thread

[StrangeSox]

Not just from "economic anxiety" as plenty of middle and upper class suburban Republicans voted for him. Lots and lots of Trump signs back in September and October in front of 500k+ homes in Mokena, Frankfort, etc.

 

 

What would it take for you guys to see and acknowledge a significant problem with racism in the GOP base?

[TaylorStSox]

What we're really looking at is a global issue. Unfortunately, the democrats are too interested in playing politics, and frankly it affects their constituents as well, so they aren't like to address the issue either. The real problem is a class problem. The real malady is the loss of the middle class. There simply aren't opportunities for the non college educated workforce. This issue is going to grow exponentially in the coming years as automation increases.

 

This is the reason zealots like Trump and Alex Jones gain followers. People are scared about their lack of opportunities. This creates opportunities for these idiots to rise up and gain power.

 

I'm not downplaying racism. Racism has existed since the beginning of time. It's not the driving force behind the angst though.

[TaylorStSox]

Not just from "economic anxiety" as plenty of middle and upper class suburban Republicans voted for him. Lots and lots of Trump signs back in September and October in front of 500k+ homes in Mokena, Frankfort, etc.

 

 

What would it take for you guys to see and acknowledge a significant problem with racism in the GOP base?

Upper-class rebuplicans didn't win Trump the election. That's just dumb.

[Middle Buffalo]

StrangeSox,

It seems like you are presenting two different arguments. On one hand, you are implying that the GOP is unequivocally racist. On the other, you're saying racism a significant problem. I think most people arguing with the first statement wouldn't necessarily disagree with the second. But, it's not exclusive to the GOP.

 

Racism is alive and well on both sides. Don't kid yourself.

[TaylorStSox]

Let's not pretend all these upper class liberal politicians aren't just as bad. Hillary hasn't hung out with a black person that wasn't on the payroll or a member of the social elite for 40 years.

 

You think a movie like Get Out was an allegory of conservative racism? No. It was commentary on the racism that exists among the liberal elite.

 

I'm gong into Caulfield territory now. My apologies.

[StrangeSox]

Upper-class rebuplicans didn't win Trump the election. That's just dumb.

Without strong suburban Republican votes, he loses. It was a tight election, but the Republican middle and upper class turned out reliably. He doesn't win it without every last bit of support that he got.

 

That said, I do largely agree with your post above that underlying a lot of what we are going on globally truly are economic issues.

 

However, i don't think that explains all or even most of what we see with the reliable Republican base as they've been this way since the southern strategy really kicked off.

 

But not everyone's response to actual economic issues is right wing bigotry. The total working and poor class in this country didn't vote Trump. That's not an excuse for empowering racism.

[StrangeSox]

StrangeSox,

It seems like you are presenting two different arguments. On one hand, you are implying that the GOP is unequivocally racist. On the other, you're saying racism a significant problem. I think most people arguing with the first statement wouldn't necessarily disagree with the second. But, it's not exclusive to the GOP.

 

Racism is alive and well on both sides. Don't kid yourself.

 

It's not exclusive to the GOP. However, it is much more of a problem there. I don't know how you can look at the campaign Trump ran and the policies and actions he's taken as president while maintaining strong Republicans approval and go both sides here.

 

Just look at the Justice department. Ending civil rights reviews of police departments. Ramping up incarceration. Ramping up the way on drugs. Enabling minority voter disenfranchisement.

 

While liberals and the Democratic party are far from perfect in race, the imbalance between the two parties here is staggering.

[TaylorStSox]

It's not exclusive to the GOP. However, it is much more of a problem there. I don't know how you can look at the campaign Trump ran and the policies and actions he's taken as president while maintaining strong Republicans approval and go both sides here.

 

Just look at the Justice department. Ending civil rights reviews of police departments. Ramping up incarceration. Ramping up the way on drugs. Enabling minority voter disenfranchisement.

 

While liberals and the Democratic party are far from perfect in race, the imbalance between the two parties here is staggering.

Just like in Chicago, where we'll continue to vote for crooked, racist democrats no matter what.

[Quin]

The GOP installed Jeff Sessions as AG. DeVos as Sec. Of Education. Gorsuch as a Justice.

 

Trump needed the GOP for that.

[caulfield12]

The United States Dpt of Justice brought a civil rights violation action against Donald Trump personally because he refused to permit black people to rent apartments in his buildings. The Dpt of Justice said all he needed to do was agree to rent to minorities. He refused. Instead he spent a fortune in legal fees fighting to keep minorities out of his buildings. On the eve of trial he caved and signed the Consent Decree. Donald J. Trump is a racist.

 

In the late 80s, Donald Trump argued that the death penalty should be re-instated for the 'Central Park 5', and when the accused were later found not guilty through DNA evidence, he refused to admit he was wrong and still thought they were guilty. Donald J. Trump is a racist.

 

When the first African American President was elected, Donald J. Trump attacked the legitimacy of the President's citizenship with full knowledge that his attack was 100% based upon a lie. Donald J. Trump is a racist.

 

During a television interview during his campaign he was asked about David Duke and the KKK and he outright refused to denounce him or his views (he finally renounced him weeks later after being forced to do so because of the political firestorm). Donald J. Trump is a racist.

 

Then he refused to denounce the murder of a Muslim on a train in Seattle. Donald J. Trump is a racist.

 

Then he refused to denounce the bombing of a mosque last week. Donald J. Trump is a racist.

 

And this weekend he refused to denounce the views of Nazis. Donald J. Trump is a racist.

 

But "nice" people voted for him.

 

Serious mosque attack by whites in Canada unmentioned or commented upon...

[greg775]

If you voted for Trump, yeah, you were saying you were at least okay with all of that.

Wrong. I have a friend who voted for Trump for economic reasons. He is convinced the economy will get better under Trump. He's a rich financial guy in Chicago. Like me he also despised Hillary.

 

When can we actually hold Republican voters responsible for their support and their votes?

This is a bad argument. A lot of people don't believe they should write in a candidate like I did. So they actually pick one of the two choices. Picking Trump over Hillary is not an odd pick. People who voted for Trump just because they couldn't vote for Hillary should not be criticized. They aren't the ones who came up with two rotten candidates. They just picked in their minds the lesser of two evils.

[bigruss]

I think it's totally fair to hold people accountable for those who voted for economic progress over race/social issues. Isn't that how the Nazis gained power in the first place?

[Heads22]

You've got to consider the many sides when it comes to Trump.

[TaylorStSox]

I think it's totally fair to hold people accountable for those who voted for economic progress over race/social issues. Isn't that how the Nazis gained power in the first place?

Ya got hungry kids you struggle to feed?

[StrangeSox]

Ya got hungry kids you struggle to feed?

 

The number one predictor of whether someone supported Trump wasn't economic position. Plenty of poor and working class didn't fall for his con or decided that the extreme bigotry and hate was too much of a price to pay for the bs he was selling.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think it's totally fair to hold people accountable for those who voted for economic progress over race/social issues. Isn't that how the Nazis gained power in the first place?

Wow, talk about quite the leap there. People in the rust belt voted for Trump out of pure desperation and not believing a career politician with a shady reputation would actually help them out. These people got conned by a truly despicable person, but them prioritizing the issues that are vastly important to them does not make them racist or racist enablers. It makes them human with their own struggles that they're desperately trying to address. I'm really getting sick of this "my way or the highway" view a lot of liberals have. Just because someone doesn't agree with everything you do does not make them stupid or evil. The Nazis in Virgina yesterday are scumbags b/c they're racist, hate-filled assholes, not because of their political affiliation.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[Balta1701]

Wow, talk about quite the leap there. People in the rust belt voted for Trump out of pure desperation and not believing a career politician with a shady reputation would actually help them out. These people got conned by a truly despicable person, but them prioritizing the issues that are vastly important to them does not make them racist or racist enablers. It makes them human with their own struggles that they're desperately trying to address. I'm really getting sick of this "my way or the highway" view a lot of liberals have. Just because someone doesn't agree with everything you do does not make them stupid or evil. The Nazis in Virgina yesterday are scumbags they're racist, hate-filled assholes, not because of their political affiliation.

"I'm sick of this my way or the highway view of white supremacist rallies. You have to look at both sides of the issue and consider that the white supremacists may have some point."

[StrangeSox]

But they did literally enable a racist regime by electing them to the highest office in the country.

 

At what point is it no longer ok to ignore parts of what someone is saying they'll do because you like other parts? Like bigruss said, Hitler wasn't elected solely on an antisemitism platform, but it was a key component. Germany was also reeling from the depression with lots of people struggling economically. People thought "oh, once they're in power they'll be more responsible." Now we've got the President refusing to denounce Nazi terrorists and we're still getting both sidesism.

 

When do those excuses stop working? Trump's very open bigotry isn't enough, apparently, so can you define what your line in the sand is?

[Chicago White Sox]

"I'm sick of this my way or the highway view of white supremacist rallies. You have to look at both sides of the issue and consider that the white supremacists may have some point."

What in the world are you talking about? Someone more concerned about providing for their families than worrying about illegal immigrants being deported does NOT make them a racist. Showing up at a white nationalist event with Nazi flags and screaming Nazi rhetoric DOES make you a racist. StrangeSox is somehow lumping all these people together, which is absolutely terrible. So again, what exactly is your angle here?

[StrangeSox]

And again for emphasis, millions of non-struggling people across the country including in the rust belt voted for Trump. He got more typical Republican support than Romney.

 

Millions of struggling people also didn't vote for him (by and large the poor don't vote for a variety of reasons). I don't see why we need to give people endless excuses.

Edited August 13, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

What in the world are you talking about? Someone more concerned about providing for their families than worrying about illegal immigrants being deported does NOT make them a racist. Showing up at a white nationalist event with Nazi flags and screaming Nazi rhetoric DOES make you a racist. StrangeSox is somehow lumping all these people together, which is absolutely terrible. So again, what exactly is your angle here?

 

No, I'm not. Maybe I'm communicating poorly, but my point is that the Republican base was at least okay enough with Trump's white nationalist ideology to vote for him. Seeing his bigotry and his promises weren't enough to cost their votes, and so far it hasn't eroded their support too much.

 

That doesn't make them the same as flag carrying Nazis, but so far the white supremacists' policies Trump's pursued aren't a bridge too far.

[Balta1701]

What in the world are you talking about? Someone more concerned about providing for their families than worrying about illegal immigrants being deported does NOT make them a racist. Showing up at a white nationalist event with Nazi flags and screaming Nazi rhetoric DOES make you a racist. StrangeSox is somehow lumping all these people together, which is absolutely terrible. So again, what exactly is your angle here?

And that's the basic problem. The Republican Party is ok with this being a key part of their party - they have other priorities. "Sure they may want to lynch black people, but my job was shipped to Mexico so maybe I should hear both sides." The word "complicit" becomes fair.

[Chicago White Sox]

And again for emphasis, millions of non-struggling people across the country including in the rust belt voted for Trump. He got more topical Republican support than Romney.

 

Millions of struggling people also didn't vote for him (by and large the poor don't vote for a variety of reasons). I don't see why we need to give people endless excuses.

I already said there is no excuse and they got conned out of desperation. Caring about their families does not make them racist enablers though. It makes them fools for putting their faith in a douchebag they thought was somehow different than the normal Washington types and who would magically find all these jobs. Unfortunately, not everyone dedicates their lives to politics like yourself and oftentimes the average joe makes short-sighted decisions due to minimal research.

[StrangeSox]

Whether they intended or not, they literally enabled racists. Jeff sessions is AG and Trump is president.

 

 

 

Speaking of awful things their votes enabled and was predictable ahead of time, Trump rolling back more transgendered protections.

 

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/89677059...src=twsrc%5Etfw

[StrangeSox]

You're also assuming that 60 million plus people only voted for him out of economic desperation and not out of enthusiastic support. Many millions of his voters aren't struggling economically.