President Donald Trump: The Thread

[Soxbadger]

How about the posters who didn't vote for Trump and have never spoken a positive word about him that are still constantly grouped and berated into the enablers, racists, Nazis, wishing sickness and death upon the American public? Nobody is allowed to post a different thought without getting railroaded. That's why no new people ever post in the Buster. I had enough personal attacks that I had to step away, see what happens now.

 

You cant worry about what other people are going to do. If you have a legitimate position, say it, defend it, argue it.

 

Some people on this site get a little carried away, I personally find that it detracts from the argument and does nothing. But people are mad and upset, they feel the core ideas of Americanism are under attack.

 

The irony is that both sides believe that last sentence to be true.

[Chicago White Sox]

That wasn't my claim! However I can be an ass and may have been communicating my point very poorly.

Fair enough, I'll move on from this issue.

[southsider2k5]

I find it interesting that multiple posters continue to harp on raBBit for his genetics comment when we all know the point he was trying to make, while StrangeSox accused everyone who voted for Trump to be racist or racist enablers and implied they were bad people and yet not one of the hardcore liberals on this board called him out for it. In fact, most of them came in and defended his ridiculous statement. As a liberal I don't always agree with raBBit's point of view, but I think he deserves better treatment than he gets around here. There is definitely a bully culture on this subforum with the hardcore liberals leading the charge. It really sucks because I come here to learn about issues and opposing perspectives, including raBBit's, but it quickly turns into a groupthink exercise where the same four or five posters aggressively force their opinion down everyone's throats (as if it were fact) without really giving the other side a chance to explain their views & opinions.

The thread should really end here. All this forum has become is pitchforks and tiki torches.

[Soxbadger]

Fair enough, I'll move on from this issue.

 

In my opinion, you dont need to move on. If anything sometimes it takes another perspective for people to see that maybe they are coming across poorly.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Trump thinks the Allied army was "very agressive, looking for trouble"

[Soxbadger]

The thread should really end here. All this forum has become is pitchforks and tiki torches.

 

Message boards are the place for pitchforks and tiki torches. Problems arise when the virtual torches become real torches.

[Soxbadger]

Trump thinks the Allied army was "very agressive, looking for trouble"

 

Was going to make a joke about Pearl Harbor but I couldnt phrase it in a way that was humorous enough.

[Chicago White Sox]

I would identify as a Democrat for sure - not sure what qualifies one as a hardcore liberal. I guess I would resist that label because I think it is loaded and meant to be derogatory.

 

I called out StrangeSox for his ridiculous idea that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist.

It wasn't meant to be a dig. I just meant there is a group of posters who lean very far to the left who also happen to be vocal on this board. I wasn't trying to be offensive when I grouped them all together as "hardcore liberals", although I can see why someone might interpret it that way.

[SoxFan2003]

Sorry, I don't believe the president of the USA is a racist or KKK supporter or a Nazi supporter. I mean, cmon. Do u guys really believe that???

 

Yes. There's a lot more evidence that he is than he isn't.

Edited August 15, 2017 by SoxFan2003

[RockRaines]

Yes. There's a lot more evidence that he is than he isn't.

I think he was brought up that way and is heavily influenced by people with KKK beliefs.

[bigruss]

By the way, stating someone who voted for a hate-mongering politician allowed racism does not make that person inherently a racist. I'm not saying that they will go out and call someone the n word or not hire someone because of their race, I don't think that many people are that DIRECTLY racist. But I do think that by voting and encouraging those behaviors and policies, that you are supporting or at minimum allowing racism in favor of other things (such as economic support).

 

I wish I saw a lot more Trump voters upset about these Nazi rallies, but instead they get more worked up about libtards and anti-fas instead of the root issue. That doesn't make someone racist, but I sure question if they have the right perspectives.

[Soxbadger]

It wasn't meant to be a dig. I just meant there is a group of posters who lean very far to the left who also happen to be vocal on this board. I wasn't trying to be offensive when I grouped them all together as "hardcore liberals", although I can see why someone might interpret it that way.

 

I dont really know where most people on this site lean, because (imo) most of the arguments on this board actually arent left or right. Nobody really argues about free trade, immigration, etc. anymore. When those topics do come up, you would be surprised that most of the people on these boards have pretty different opinions.

 

For the past year the majority of the posts/arguments (imo) have been anti-Trump. The problems start to arise because Democrats/left want to force Republicans/right to disassociate from Trump. So anytime Trump is an idiot, it leads to a similar argument "If youre a Republican youre okay with what happened." To be fair, I can only recall 1 poster on this site openly supporting Trump.

 

I believe that, the association with Nazis/KKK etc is mostly out of frustration because some people really believe that Trump is leading the US down a terrible path, and that no amount of alleged jobs, etc are worth the damage that he is doing.

 

As an American, I feel that my credibility/respect takes a hit every day because of Trump. Its not a good feeling, especially when the person who is supposed to be our representative does not seem to care at all about how we are perceived.

 

A lot of people have disliked my comments about GWB as compared to Trump, but it really just shows how far the country has fallen. I may not have agreed with GWB's ideas, but I think that beneath it all he was a good person trying to do his best. You see him having a good time with Michelle Obama, you see the respect that our former Presidents have for each other. And then you see Trump. And personally its hard for me to accept that anyone would support a party that willingly got into bed with him.

 

And maybe it would be different if everyone rallied against Trump. But too often it seems (at least to me) that Republican's are willing to agree if they think it will help them in the end game. That bothers me, because certain things you have to stand against.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Soxbadger

[bmags]

I dont really know where most people on this site lean, because (imo) most of the arguments on this board actually arent left or right. Nobody really argues about free trade, immigration, etc. anymore. When those topics do come up, you would be surprised that most of the people on these boards have pretty different opinions.

 

For the past year the majority of the posts/arguments (imo) have been anti-Trump. The problems start to arise because Democrats/left want to force Republicans/right to disassociate from Trump. So anytime Trump is an idiot, it leads to a similar argument "If youre a Republican youre okay with what happened." To be fair, I can only recall 1 poster on this site openly supporting Trump.

 

I believe that, the association with Nazis/KKK etc) is mostly out of frustration because some people really believe that Trump is leading the US down a terrible path, and that no amount of alleged jobs, etc are worth the damage that he is doing.

 

As an American, I feel that my credibility/respect takes a hit every day because of Trump. Its not a good feeling, especially when the person who is supposed to be our representative does not seem to care at all about how we are perceived.

 

A lot of people have disliked my comments about GWB as compared to Trump, but it really just shows how far the country has fallen. I may not have agreed with GWB's ideas, but I think that beneath it all he was a good person trying to do his best. You see him having a good time with Michelle Obama, you see the respect that our former Presidents have for each other. And then you see Trump. And personally its hard for me to accept that anyone would support a party that willingly got into bed with him.

 

And maybe it would be different if everyone rallied against Trump. But too often it seems (at least to me) that Republican's are willing to agree if they think it will help them in the end game. That bothers me, because certain things you have to stand against.

 

This sums up my beliefs well.

 

[bmags]

And again I know it's silly, but I'm truly shocked by today's events. Not because I didn't think he was capable of selling out humanity again, but every once in a while you realize when the trump show hits reality. This poor woman's death in any other era would cause reflection. He is incapable of siding against anyone who vehemently supports him, which at this point is basically his weaponized trolls and white supremacists.

[Balta1701]

And again I know it's silly, but I'm truly shocked by today's events. Not because I didn't think he was capable of selling out humanity again, but every once in a while you realize when the trump show hits reality. This poor woman's death in any other era would cause reflection. He is incapable of siding against anyone who vehemently supports him, which at this point is basically his weaponized trolls and white supremacists.

When someone shows you who they are the first time, believe them. Whether it's because of who supports him or because he truly is one of them in his heart, this is who he is. It's who he has been every time. It's why he won. It is a fundamental statement of who we are as a people and a country.

[WilliamTell]

I rarely post in this section of the forum because I really don't like getting into arguments on views, ideologies, etc. I also don't follow news very often anymore and it's made me such a happier person. What happened last weekend was basically impossible to not follow along with. It's so disgraceful that we have people in this country in some capacity think it's alright to either be or pretend to be a Nazi. Idolizing Hitler is so far off and makes me sick. Both of my grandfathers fight in World War II and to me, there is nothing more disrespectful to that generation, especially the WWII vets who are still alive.

 

As far as Trump's comments about the situation, I can see why people are upset about it. I'm probably in the minority but I can also see why he blames both sides. Before I get thrown off the forum let me say that if I was given the opportunity to be there, I definitely would've shown up and supported the protesters to these hate groups. But I wouldn't have brought weapons to this demonstration. Seeing both sides bring weapons shows that each were looking for a fight. While I entirely blame these white supremacy groups, I also do not think the protesters are innocent in this fight. The one's who were actually fighting at least. Just the feelings.

[caulfield12]

I dont really know where most people on this site lean, because (imo) most of the arguments on this board actually arent left or right. Nobody really argues about free trade, immigration, etc. anymore. When those topics do come up, you would be surprised that most of the people on these boards have pretty different opinions.

 

For the past year the majority of the posts/arguments (imo) have been anti-Trump. The problems start to arise because Democrats/left want to force Republicans/right to disassociate from Trump. So anytime Trump is an idiot, it leads to a similar argument "If youre a Republican youre okay with what happened." To be fair, I can only recall 1 poster on this site openly supporting Trump.

 

I believe that, the association with Nazis/KKK etc) is mostly out of frustration because some people really believe that Trump is leading the US down a terrible path, and that no amount of alleged jobs, etc are worth the damage that he is doing.

 

As an American, I feel that my credibility/respect takes a hit every day because of Trump. Its not a good feeling, especially when the person who is supposed to be our representative does not seem to care at all about how we are perceived.

 

A lot of people have disliked my comments about GWB as compared to Trump, but it really just shows how far the country has fallen. I may not have agreed with GWB's ideas, but I think that beneath it all he was a good person trying to do his best. You see him having a good time with Michelle Obama, you see the respect that our former Presidents have for each other. And then you see Trump. And personally its hard for me to accept that anyone would support a party that willingly got into bed with him.

 

And maybe it would be different if everyone rallied against Trump. But too often it seems (at least to me) that Republican's are willing to agree if they think it will help them in the end game. That bothers me, because certain things you have to stand against.

 

Exactly.

 

And the "liberals" literally can find at least 25 quick examples where Trump has done the opposite of what he claims below...as it pertains to minorities/immigrants (conflating them with terrorists/ISIS) and then deafening silence when the violence is perpetrated by whites.

 

"I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement," Trump said, calling his initial comment (Saturday) a "fine statement."

 

He added: "I don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement."

 

The President subsequently called the driver of the car that drove through a crowd, killing one woman, a "murderer" then once again blamed both sides for the violence.

 

"You can call it terrorism, you can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want," he said. "The driver of the car is a murderer and what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."

 

"I didn't wait long. I didn't wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement," Trump said Tuesday. "The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement, but you don't make statements that direct until you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don't know the facts and it is a very, very important process to me. It is a very important statement."cnn.com

 

 

And doubling down by talking about "political correctness" removing statues of Washington, Jefferson (and perhaps even Lincoln one day) is hardly the most germane point here...

Edited August 15, 2017 by caulfield12

[Soxbadger]

I rarely post in this section of the forum because I really don't like getting into arguments on views, ideologies, etc. I also don't follow news very often anymore and it's made me such a happier person. What happened last weekend was basically impossible to not follow along with. It's so disgraceful that we have people in this country in some capacity think it's alright to either be or pretend to be a Nazi. Idolizing Hitler is so far off and makes me sick. Both of my grandfathers fight in World War II and to me, there is nothing more disrespectful to that generation, especially the WWII vets who are still alive.

 

As far as Trump's comments about the situation, I can see why people are upset about it. I'm probably in the minority but I can also see why he blames both sides. Before I get thrown off the forum let me say that if I was given the opportunity to be there, I definitely would've shown up and supported the protesters to these hate groups. But I wouldn't have brought weapons to this demonstration. Seeing both sides bring weapons shows that each were looking for a fight. While I entirely blame these white supremacy groups, I also do not think the protesters are innocent in this fight. The one's who were actually fighting at least. Just the feelings.

 

The problem is that there is always going to be tension when we truly support the 1st amendment. ACLU has fought for Nazi's right to protest, https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-tak...e-speech-skokie , one of my personal favorite sayings is that "I may not support what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

It takes 2 people to start a fight, and both sides have some sort of culpability with respect to the violence.

 

That being said, the most important part is that it is disgraceful that we have people pretending to be Nazis. And that shouldnt be a partisan issue, that should be something Democrats, Republicans agree on. We should have a President who comes out and condemns all forms of racism, all forms of prejudice. That we are a nation of outcasts, of others, formed on the backs of those who escaped all different forms of persecution.

 

But to be honest, I dont know what I would do if I saw a group of Nazis. My great uncle died on D-Day (ironically a 1st generation Italian), I have relatives (through marriage) who were killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust. I hope that I would be the better person, but if they started acting violent, Im pretty sure that I would return the favor.

[caulfield12]

 

How realistic is it for any conservative to expect protestors to simply "turn the other cheek" and practice non-violent resistance along the lines of Gandhi and MLK when they're getting mowed down in the streets?

 

Even if they did, they would be ridiculed for being "soft" and "snowflakes," and the situation politically still wouldn't change to any appreciable degree.

 

Other than being silent witnesses, what should liberals be doing in this time of national crisis, when appeasing the other side only is seen as a sign of weakness and leads to more emboldened actions like the protests planned by the alt-right in cities across the country this weekend?

 

Politiely request the news media not cover them?

[Dick Allen]

There are some very fine Nazis. I learned that today.

[Middle Buffalo]

It wasn't meant to be a dig. I just meant there is a group of posters who lean very far to the left who also happen to be vocal on this board. I wasn't trying to be offensive when I grouped them all together as "hardcore liberals", although I can see why someone might interpret it that way.

No problem. I appreciate both you and StrangeSox conceding a little bit.

 

I think I'm done arguing this point. The good news is that Trump will most assuredly do something dumb soon enough to redirect our attention.

[bmags]

I rarely post in this section of the forum because I really don't like getting into arguments on views, ideologies, etc. I also don't follow news very often anymore and it's made me such a happier person. What happened last weekend was basically impossible to not follow along with. It's so disgraceful that we have people in this country in some capacity think it's alright to either be or pretend to be a Nazi. Idolizing Hitler is so far off and makes me sick. Both of my grandfathers fight in World War II and to me, there is nothing more disrespectful to that generation, especially the WWII vets who are still alive.

 

As far as Trump's comments about the situation, I can see why people are upset about it. I'm probably in the minority but I can also see why he blames both sides. Before I get thrown off the forum let me say that if I was given the opportunity to be there, I definitely would've shown up and supported the protesters to these hate groups. But I wouldn't have brought weapons to this demonstration. Seeing both sides bring weapons shows that each were looking for a fight. While I entirely blame these white supremacy groups, I also do not think the protesters are innocent in this fight. The one's who were actually fighting at least. Just the feelings.

 

The thing is, it is so incredibly easy to make a statement as president that denounces the purpose of the march, reaffirms 1st amendment rights, and urges non violent resistance as seen by every president ever, and the gov/mayor in the situation.

 

Don't let him off the hook. Had I asked you for a statement after the car act you would have put up a better response, and we aren't presidents with comms teams. We are just decent people.

[caulfield12]

Never thought I'd become a Marco Rubio fan (granted, a lot of it is probably politically-calculated for his next presidential run)...

 

“We must be clear,” House Speaker Paul Ryan tweeted on Tuesday afternoon. “White supremacy is repulsive. This bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. There can be no moral ambiguity.”

 

Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida said the white supremacist rally organizers are “100% to blame” and that it’s dangerous to put some of the responsibility on the counter-protesters.

 

“The #WhiteSupremacy groups will see being assigned only 50% of blame as a win.We can not allow this old evil to be resurrected,” Rubio tweeted.

politico.com

Edited August 16, 2017 by caulfield12

[Steve9347]

Ok, this had better end his f***ing presidency.

[caulfield12]

The thing is, it is so incredibly easy to make a statement as president that denounces the purpose of the march, reaffirms 1st amendment rights, and urges non violent resistance as seen by every president ever, and the gov/mayor in the situation.

 

Don't let him off the hook. Had I asked you for a statement after the car act you would have put up a better response, and we aren't presidents with comms teams. We are just decent people.

 

As a nation, we have to be stronger and united on the points which we agree and disagree upon...and one of the most paramount values of all democratic nations today is the belief that all men are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights. There is absolutely no room for the Nazi Party and those who follow that twisted belief system in any equation. Our parents and grandparents fought a World War which cost tens of millions of precious lives to ensure that the beacon of hope, equality and freedom would shine across all the continents in perpetuity. I, Donald J. Trump, therefore state unequivocally that there's no justification, rationale or defense for their actions, and we will not attempt to equate the two protesting sides as being equivalent in guilt or blame.

 

Heather (forgot her last name) was simply walking across a street when her life was cruelly cut down by a misguided young man who was "out for blood." It is of paramount importance that we should work together from this point forward to make sure her life wasn't given in vain. We should reflect on the message that we want to send out to the rest of the world about what America symbolizes, and strive to live up to those ideals. Moreso, we should work together in our local communities, churches and non-profits to provide opportunities for all our young people to share in the American Dream, so that they aren't led astray by hate and divisiveness that simply ends up being counterproductive and, in this case, deadly.

Edited August 16, 2017 by caulfield12